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Evolution Proven!

Nostromo

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If it's in the Holy Bible, then it has been proven.
How aboooout... If it's in the Lords of the Rings it's been proven? Do I win?
A voyage to the edge of it, traveling faster than the speed of light, to take a closer look.
You want us to do the impossible to get somewhere we don't even know exists? Are you volunteering for this billion year suicide mission? You might want to pack some sandwiches.
No need to 'pick', God has been absolutely proven to be absolute.
The Ewoks have been proven absolutely too, I saw it myself on TV.
"Speculation" to the highest degree.
How did I know you weren't going to look it up? :)
If it's a fact, how can it be falsified?
Something being falsifiable means it has the potential to be proven false, it could be proven false, not that it has been proven false.

Suppose I say gravity always tries to pull objects together with a force that depends on the mass of the objects and how far apart they are (which in all cases we've seen is true). That statement is falsifiable, all we need to do is find one case where gravity doesn't act that way and we would prove it wrong.
 
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Nostromo

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Like about 19 challenges I came up with, along with all their attendant questions, remarks, and sub-points that were not addressed?
Maybe if you responded to the questions of others they might reciprocate.

If you're bothered about it, I'm quite happy to address your challenges, provided you'll honestly answer my own questions.
 
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Doveaman

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I know, sounds crazy to expect there to be just one shred of evidence to support the "history" of over one million jews living in a ten square mile of desert for forty years. That's just crazy.
You guys brag so much about relying on "evidence", but yet you can't even locate those dark, invisible fairies that are said to be holding galaxies together and causing the universe to expand.

And we are the ones that are crazy?!
 
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AV1611VET

SCIENCE CAN TAKE A HIKE
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You guys brag so much about relying on "evidence", but yet you can't even locate those dark, invisible fairies that are said to be holding galaxies together and causing the universe to expand.

And we are the ones that are crazy?!
They don't have to actually see it to believe it --- they run on faith as well.

All they have to see is what they perceive to be an effect, then they make up a cause for it and --- eureka! --- a discovery has been made!

(Until it gets plutoed later.)
 
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Doveaman

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Almost. It's about one view of reality being replaced by another view of reality that is closer to reality than the first one,
Reality only has one view - Reality.
until we eventually hit the actual reality.
This is the most honest explanation of science I've ever heard.

Scientists are still trying to find actual reality.

If you can't even find actual reality, how do you expect to find Noah's Ark.
 
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Doveaman

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Something being falsifiable means it has the potential to be proven false, it could be proven false, not that it has been proven false.
I guess scientific facts are different to real facts. The last time I checked, a real fact was something that exists, reality, absolutely true.

For example, God is a real fact, because He exists, because He is reality, because He is absolutely true. If something exists and is absolutely true, how does it have the "potential to be proven false"?

God does not have the
"potential to be proven false" because He is absolutely true, a real fact. And this is why scientists have a hard time trying to falsify Him.
Suppose I say gravity always tries to pull objects together with a force that depends on the mass of the objects and how far apart they are (which in all cases we've seen is true). That statement is falsifiable, all we need to do is find one case where gravity doesn't act that way and we would prove it wrong.
What about if objects are being pulled together, but there is not enough mass around for gravity to do it, would the “gravity did it” theory be falsified? Or would you spend years digging, and millions of dollars, trying to find an invisible source for gravity?
 
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LifeToTheFullest!

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You guys brag so much about relying on "evidence", but yet you can't even locate those dark, invisible fairies that are said to be holding galaxies together and causing the universe to expand.

And we are the ones that are crazy?!
Not "crazy," just lazy. Your guys god of the gaps does not impress us guys.
 
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BananaSlug

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You guys brag so much about relying on "evidence", but yet you can't even locate those dark, invisible fairies that are said to be holding galaxies together and causing the universe to expand.

And we are the ones that are crazy?!


You mean like that post of mine about observations verifying dark matter and gravitational red-shift in that other thread that you ignored? Oh right, when we provide evidence you pretend it doesn't exist.:thumbsup:
 
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SithDoughnut

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Reality only has one view - Reality.

Sadly, no one has full view of reality, and no one can ever be 100% sure they do until we know absolutely everything there is to know. Which will never happen.

This is the most honest explanation of science I've ever heard.

Scientists are still trying to find actual reality.

If you can't even find actual reality, how do you expect to find Noah's Ark.

You can't put Noah's Ark and reality in the same sentence unless they have the phrase 'is not' between them.

Why should we look for the Ark? That's your claim. If it's reality, you show it to us. Otherwise, we'll continue along the path that follows the actual evidence.

If Noah's Ark is reality and still exists, why can't you show it to us? That's not my version of reality, that's yours.
 
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Nostromo

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I guess scientific facts are different to real facts. The last time I checked, a real fact was something that exists, reality, absolutely true.
Yes, it is. The problem is that human beings aren't born with an encyclopaedic knowledge of the universe, we don't know what those facts are without finding out for ourselves.

When people are investigating a phenomenon scientifically, they're trying to develop a description that is as close to the real fact as possible.

When I say that theory X is considered a fact, I mean that the description we have has been tested sufficiently and shown to be a close match to the real fact.
If something exists and is absolutely true, how does it have the potential to be proven false?
It's not the fact itself that is proven false, but our description of it. In straightforward terms, our description should be testable.

If I suggest that all reality is a figment of my imagination, there's no evidence I can provide which can disprove it, since anything I can come up with could be a part of my imagination. It's unfalsifiable and untestable so there's no way for me to know whether it matches reality or not.
What about if objects are being pulled together, but there is not enough mass around for gravity to do it, would the “gravity did it” theory be falsified? Or would you spend years digging, and millions of dollars, trying to find an invisible source for gravity?
If, after a couple of centuries of countless tests, it seemed that gravity was pretty consistent in its behaviour over a range of circumstances, it would seem strange to declare it false when you actually don't know the cause of the above scenario.

In the 30s it was noticed that when certain particles decayed, the energy before wasn't the same as the energy after. What scientists could have done, as you suggest, is just throw out the theory of Conservation of Energy, but it was so well tested that it seemed too good a match to reality to throw it out.

Instead scientists suggested that an as yet invisible, undetectable particle was carrying away the energy. Further tests were done, and the neutrino was discovered.

This is already a long post but I like this quote of Thomas Huxley:

"To hear all these large words, you would think that the mind of a man of science must be constituted differently from that of his fellow men; but if you will not be frightened by terms, you will discover that you are quite wrong, and that all these terrible apparatus are being used by yourselves every day and every hour of your lives."
 
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sandwiches

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Reality only has one view - Reality.
Wrong. Reality has NO view. It's a concept, an idea. Now, if you meant to say that there's only one view of reality, then you're clearly wrong, as evidenced by millions of people who can't even agree which of their deities is the 'real' one. However, if you meant that there is one reality. Well, as far as we know, yes.

This is the most honest explanation of science I've ever heard.

Scientists are still trying to find actual reality.

If you can't even find actual reality, how do you expect to find Noah's Ark.
I'm assuming you're claiming to have the 'true' view of reality. If so, where's Noah's Ark?
 
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Doveaman

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You mean like that post of mine about observations verifying dark matter and gravitational red-shift in that other thread that you ignored? Oh right, when we provide evidence you pretend it doesn't exist.:thumbsup:
I usually respond to the long error filled posts when I have more time. :thumbsup:
 
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