Evolution Promotes Brutality

[Loudmouth]

Descriptions can kill.

Sticks and stones can break my bones, but words will never hurt me.

Ask those who had Thalidomide described as a prenatal wonder drug.

Was it words or the drug which caused the birth defects?

Since thalidomide causes birth defects, does this mean that we SHOULD give women thalidomide to cause birth defects?

 

[Loudmouth]

People have to play connect the dots to accept Evolution happened.

And it takes faith to connect the dots.

We have the evidence. No faith needed.

29+ Evidences for Macroevolution

 

[HitchSlap]

To say that evolution "promotes" brutality is like saying that forensic science "promotes" murder. What a goofy notion.

And forks promote obesity!!! Ban the fork!

 

[expos4ever]

Zero of the Christians that I know believe in the TOE....none.

That may be true, but it's anecdotal. Are you an American? I suspect that acceptance of creationism in the church is primarily an American cultural feature. I do not believe creationism - at least not the kind that says the earth is 10,000 years old and that dinosaurs co-existed with man - has much purchase outside the USA.

IMO and only in my opinion, the theistic evolution is a cop out, it's an insult to the creator who told us that He created it in six days.

Another possibility is that the author of Genesis was never intending to give us a literal story, but is nevertheless communicating important truths about the nature of man, creation, and God by the use of rich allegory. I know a lot of you - again largely Americans, I suggest - seem to think that taking the Bible literally "honours" God. Well, there are demonstrable problems with this. In the Old Testament, prophets use "end of the world" language - stars falling to earth, etc. - to refer to things like the fall of Babylon.

Clearly, metaphor is being used; therefore it is a big mistake to take everything literally.

 

[expos4ever]

To say that evolution "promotes" brutality is like saying that forensic science "promotes" murder. What a goofy notion.

I agree and I think your analogy captures the glaring error in that view better than the efforts of me and others to critique that notion. The fact that evolution happened does not comprise some sort of moral mandate to promote intentionally modeling our world on the principles of natural selection.

 

[AV1611VET]

Since thalidomide causes birth defects, does this mean that we SHOULD give women thalidomide to cause birth defects?

If that was their goal ... yes.

And I suspect it was.

I can't prove it, but I can suspect it.

 

[46AND2]

...but the fact is a God who does not exist cannot do anything no matter how many hypothesis you bring up.

Sorry, but this is such an utterly ridiculous response, I can only assume it is an evasion tactic.

Saying "depending on what you mean by that" is so disingenuous as you know very well what I mean. if you don't you're not a very intelligent atheist. if that upsets you better report me to the moderators. All that will show is that you can't handle the truth.

More evasion. Weren't expecting me to say yes, huh?

 

[46AND2]

That may be the case but I have a very distinct feeling that your hypothetical is being used to throw a spanner in the works. That being the case I would rather talk about what is not what might be.

Funny thing is that my hypothetical showed you what IS (an existing paradox based on the attributes you assign your god), and all you want to talk about is what might be (a god who exists with those attributes DESPITE the paradoxes).

 

[46AND2]

Yes.

So then, if God chose not to create a universe without sin, as you agree, then he must have chosen to create a universe with sin, correct?

 

[AV1611VET]

So then, if God chose not to create a universe without sin, as you agree, then he must have chosen to create a universe with sin, correct?

No.

A universe with sin didn't exist.

Even after He created it.

The sin came later.

 

[46AND2]

I don't know if I would say that evolution supports it but it can certainly be used to motivate it.

Hitler is an example. He was creating a super youth and his race was supposed to be superior to all others.

If you think about it, if we all evolved from inferior organisms, then it is easy to fabricate a theory that your race is the best of all and superior.

As far as anarchy, it is also easy to say "if I came from nothing then all rules are just made by someone else. What gives them the right to say what is right and wrong if we are all here by chance anyway. So I will make my rules and there is no one who can tell me I'm wrong. I can do what I want, when I want, take what I want.. what ever, Who do I have to answer to? And when I die there is no penalty to pay.

So, evolution may not promote it but can be used to justify it.

Er, you know Hitler was anti-evolution, right? His motivation was, instead, his own RELIGIOUS beliefs.

 

[JacksBratt]

Well, Hitler was misguided,

Misguided by who's terms? Some other men? What datum are we judging our ethics and morals by? Who set that datum? I suggest that all our morals, ethics, laws and expectations of a civilized world came from God. Without Him, nobody has the right to tell anyone what is right and wrong. Sure we live better, have order, have safety, but in a world where we have no foundation for our civilized beliefs, anyone creating new ones has just as much merit..

We are already seeing deviations from this in the debate about abortion. Civilized people do not kill their unborn children. Yet due to the popular vote of people who will have their lives changed by the addition of a new child coupled with the $$$$ doctors can make.... we have the murder of our own.

God says it's wrong. Men skew it all to calm their conscience because if it is made acceptable on this earth, even if it is wrong in God's eyes, He doesn't exist in their world so there is no consequence.

What I am saying is, if you get the right group of people in power, their views can become the law. With no all knowing, all righteous creator to govern the laws and set a foundational base, you have then created the vacuum for "might is right" or "majority rules". You will also have those that can, rightfully, claim nobody tells me what to do.

They can then take what they want, do what they want and who has the right to say differently?

 

[JacksBratt]

Er, you know Hitler was anti-evolution, right? His motivation was, instead, his own RELIGIOUS beliefs.

Adolf Hitler's mind was captivated by evolutionary teaching - probably since the time he was a boy. Evolutionary ideas - quite undisguised - lie at the basis of all that is worst in Mein Kampf - and in his public speeches. Hitler reasoned… that a higher race would always conquer a lower.


From:

http://www.creationism.org/csshs/v08n3p24.htm

 

[46AND2]

No.

A universe with sin didn't exist.

Even after He created it.

The sin came later.

He chose not to create a universe in which humans and angels would not rebel.

Therefore, he chose to create a universe in which they WOULD.

Correct?

 

[expos4ever]

Misguided by who's terms? Some other men? What datum are we judging our ethics and morals by? Who set that datum? I suggest that all our morals, ethics, laws and expectations of a civilized world came from God.

I hear this kind of claim a lot but I do not see the underlying argument. An atheist may well respond with something like this:

- We get our sense of morality through learning what sort of behaviours generally promote peace, order, comfort, security, happiness, etc. How is that not an arguably valid basis for a moral sense?

And Hitler's behavior did not promote any of these things.

 

[Loudmouth]

If that was their goal ... yes.

If your theory is that thalidomide causes birth defects, aren't you forced to give thalidomide to women?

 

[JacksBratt]

I hear this kind of claim a lot but I do not see the underlying argument. An atheist may well respond with something like this:

- We get our sense of morality through learning what sort of behaviours generally promote peace, order, comfort, security, happiness, etc. How is that not an arguably valid basis for a moral sense?

And Hitler's behavior did not promote any of these things.

I agree, most humans will follow a mindset that is kind, considerate, helpful, peaceful, orderly so all can be comfortable and happy.

However, just because the majority think so does not make it the only mindset when people are just an evolved organism. One group may follow this desirable set of values. Another comes along like the Mad Max movies... no law, no order, and their way of life is far different. Without a rock solid standard datum to set your values and calibrate your actions......you have the possibility for anarchy.

Evolution gives no solid platform for this datum. There is, actually no right, no wrong....

With God, there is no question. Rock solid datum for right and wrong. When followed, all benefit.

 

[Loudmouth]

Adolf Hitler's mind was captivated by evolutionary teaching . . .

Nowhere in any evolution class or biology class is it taught that we ought to kill of the weakest in any species.

 

[pgp_protector]

Without which the Jews wouldn't exist today.

So your God can create the whole universe in 6 days, store enough food & water on an Ark for every kind of animal for a year, yet it's IMPOSSIBLE for your God to Allow a Race to Exist today without Killing others?

 

[Loudmouth]

Misguided by who's terms?

By any rational or logical terms. Scientific theories don't tell us what we ought to do.

I suggest that all our morals, ethics, laws and expectations of a civilized world came from God. Without Him, nobody has the right to tell anyone what is right and wrong.

What you are describing is obedience, not morality or ethics. "I'm just following orders" is what the Nazi's tried to get away with, since someone has already Godwin'ed the thread.

God says it's wrong.

Men say it is wrong.