Evolution Lesson

[USincognito]

Only ID, or old-earth creationism, as it is a compromise between scripture and false science.

How do you, personally, discern between "false science" and stuff you just don't like?

 

[USincognito]

How and why does any of this universe exist? Is there not necessary existence that must explain the universe coming to be? Or is it thought that any of what exists would come from nothing existing, and nothing existing can produce that?

What does that have to do with evolution?

 

[pat34lee]

Right. And that limitation does not constrict observation to "before our eyes in real time". Also you need to learn that observations and outcomes of analysis must be repeatable, not events.

I doubt you'll read it, but this may help.
I don't think Answers in Genesis quite gets science Pt. 1

Why is it that the articles which are trying to prove everyone is crazy but them are the actual crazies?

"Got that? Nevermind that evidence-based extrapolations are definitionally not assumptions… but stay on target!"

Not assumptions, totally, but not observations or facts, either. Any evidence of past actions can be taken at least several ways, probably more. Any good murder mystery is based on showing that the first and simplest explanation is not always correct.

“Darwinian biological evolution” is directly observed, and thus, “observational science”.

This is where they call adaptation, evolution. It isn't.
Then he tries to compare evolution to creation, ridiculing God, but totally bypassing abiogenesis.
No, if anyone doesn't understand, it is that author who uses a fake name to hide his/her shame.

 

[pat34lee]

How do you, personally, discern between "false science" and stuff you just don't like?

Is there any question about anatomy, biology, physics, chemistry or any real science? What is the difference?

 

[pat34lee]

The whole point of this thread was for it not to be a debate, but a learning opportunity for anyone curious about aspects of evolution or biology in general. If this nonsense persists, I'm gonna have to close the thread.

Learning should work both ways.

Question
What makes you think evolution is truth and not just a deception?

Colossians 2:8

 

[Cearbhall]

Learning should work both ways.

Question
What makes you think evolution is truth and not just a deception?

Because it's the only explanation for the lifeforms that we know exist, and there is nothing to suggest that it's wrong.

 

[pitabread]

What makes you think evolution is truth and not just a deception?

Evolution is an applied science.

 

[pat34lee]

Evolution is an applied science.

Really? How can you prove that?

 

[pitabread]

Really? How can you prove that?

I don't have to prove it. It just involves developing an understanding of what evolutionary biology is and how it's used in various fields (i.e. medical research, agriculture, conservation biology, etc).

 

[USincognito]

Why is it that the articles which are trying to prove everyone is crazy but them are the actual crazies?

Oh the irony.

Not assumptions, totally, but not observations or facts, either. Any evidence of past actions can be taken at least several ways, probably more. Any good murder mystery is based on showing that the first and simplest explanation is not always correct.

No. The fact that geological formation is comprised of particular fossils and can be dated by nearby igneous deposits means it's a particular age. No "interpetation" can say otherwise.

This is where they call adaptation, evolution. It isn't.

Hate to break this to you, but pat34lee does not determine what is, and is not evolution. Adaption is evolution. Any change of allele representation in a population is evolution - period.

 

[USincognito]

Is there any question about anatomy, biology, physics, chemistry or any real science? What is the difference?

You didn't answer my question. Here it is again. How do you, personally, discern between "false science" and stuff you don't like?

 

[USincognito]

Really? How can you prove that?

How does one "prove" something that is axiomatically factual?

 

[USincognito]

Question
What makes you think evolution is truth and not just a deception?

Evolution isn't "truth". That's the sort of verbiage philosophers and theologians love, but it's meaningless in a scientific discussion. Evolution is a fact. The theory of evolution explains that fact. You may not like this. You may reject this. But your thoughts and feelings on the subject won't change this.

 

[mark kennedy]

A thread for creationists that want questions answered about evolution, or to learn more about it, as well as about biology in general. The questions should be directed as to not try to get evolution compared with creationism, but I doubt people will go along with that for very long.

I'll bite, what is the molecular basis, specifically the molecular mechanism, responsible for the three fold expansion of the human brain from that of apes?

 

[mark kennedy]

Evolution isn't "truth". That's the sort of verbiage philosophers and theologians love, but it's meaningless in a scientific discussion. Evolution is a fact. The theory of evolution explains that fact. You may not like this. You may reject this. But your thoughts and feelings on the subject won't change this.

Evolution is two things, it's the naturalistic assumption of universal common descent and a philosophy of natural history going all the way back to and including the big bang.

 

[USincognito]

Evolution is two things, it's the naturalistic assumption of universal common descent and a philosophy of natural history going all the way back to and including the big bang.

Oh Mark, just stop. You're embarrassing yourself.

 

[mark kennedy]

Except that turned out not to be quite true, didn't it? The boundaries of what exactly one might want to consider a "planet" turned out to be fuzzy, and had to be set arbitrarily.

The basic concept of species is pretty straightforward, at least for sexually reproducing organisms. A species is a population that evolves together as a group, exchanging DNA each generation, so that traits can be passed around the whole population. One species becomes two when a population like that splits into two and each starts on an independent evolutionary trajectory. Deciding exactly when they have split enough that you should call them different species is pretty arbitrary -- what if there is only occasional interbreeding between the groups, for example?

When there's just one population and that species changes a lot over time, it's even more arbitrary exactly when it's changed enough that you call it a new species, since there's no interbreeding test to make.

The fundamental reason why species is difficult to define, then, is that it is applying a yes/no categorization to an inherently gradual continuum.

Darwin found the definition of species elusive but that's really an ongoing issue for taxonomy. The Troglodytes and Bonobos can still interbreed but they are still distinct species. I've always thought it wasn't so much arbitrary as it was a matter of convenience. Maybe the Dewey decimal system works fine in most Libraries but I've found some of my favorite books in some odd places. I found Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance in the travel section once.

 

[mark kennedy]

Oh Mark, just stop. You're embarrassing yourself.

No I'm not embarrassed at all, exposing the equivocation fallacy at the heart of Darwinian presuppositional logic is a reasonable first step.

 

[PsychoSarah]

I'll bite, what is the molecular basis, specifically the molecular mechanism, responsible for the three fold expansion of the human brain from that of apes?

A few genes that are functional in other modern apes, but through mutation, are entirely broken in humans. Some that regulate brain growth, and one that pertains to forming a jaw muscle that, if present, would restrict the size of our skulls. So, our brains are so big because genes that would have prevented rapid growth don't work, and because our skull can become larger thanks to the absence of a muscle that would increase our jaw strength. This is also why brain cancers are so much more common in our species than in any other ape, we don't have genes that encourage our brains to grow this big as much as we lack the genes that would have kept brain growth in check. Don't get me wrong, we aren't missing all the genes responsible for regulating brain growth, just a few of them, which is why the organ in our skulls isn't just one big tumor.

 

[PsychoSarah]

Learning should work both ways.

Question
What makes you think evolution is truth and not just a deception?

Colossians 2:8

-_- learning does work both ways, but often the debate-centric nature of this subforum prevents beneficial discourse as people feel the need to constantly defend their position more than listen to what others have to say. Feel free to make a Creationism Lessen thread if you want. Basically, it becomes stressful to learn in such an environment.

Since your question doesn't ask about an aspect of biology or evolution in a specific way (example: what is natural selection and how does it work?), I feel no need to answer that. I answer that question in literally every other thread under this subforum that I participate in.

This isn't a thread where I try to debate my position, but to explain evolution and other aspects of biology to anyone that is curious. You wanna know how cell organelles function? I can answer that. Want to know about genetics? I got information on genetics. Want to know how evolution is experimentally tested? I could give you enough direction that you could do it yourself, just buy a few petri dishes. You don't even need to buy the agar the bacteria grow on, you can make it with water, beef stock powder, sugar, and gelatin. If you don't want to bother, kits for it are still pretty darn cheap.