Evolution is the Great Apostasy

[Nathan Poe]

I thought you put me on ignore. Did you decide to join the conversation again?

I haven't had you on ignore in a long time.
Besides, compared to some of our more recent Creationists, you're actually pretty rational...

 

[Bruce D McKay Elijah]

Thank you for your questions. I will be glad to answer them. Frankly, I think that this is really what this little quotation thing was designed for, rather than the manner in which it is often used by others in this forum.

So, tell us about the promised land. Tell us what it's like there.

I thought the new heaven and the new earth came after the 1000 year reign of Christ. Do you consider 1000 years to be soon?

They seem to be melting rather slowly. The ocean level is only increasing at a rate of about 2 inches a year. It maybe another 25 years before all heck begins to breaks loose. Esp. in Flordia, New Orleans & California.

The polar caps seem to have been going though cycles of freezing and melting for many many years now.

Here are the answers to your questions. First, the promised land is a real place. Anyone can see it when in Heaven. It is just over on the otherside of the "river of life." When anyone even thinks of crossing over, and going over there however, they immediately hear a warning voice. "It is forbidden. You cannot cross to the promised land." When I saw it, I was eleven years old. It was in 1951, after I had died and was taken up to the Paradise of God. It was basically a very, very luxurious forest that grew right up to the edge of the river. There is most probably a lot more over there than the part that I was looking at. I mean, it's probably like the blind men and the elepahant sort of thing, and I was just looking at one small part of the whole area.

Secondly, the issue about the ice caps melting - shows how INVENTIVE the whole camp of evolutionists have been. There is a philosophy prejudicial to relgion, that sets up the wisdom of man in competition with the wisdom of God. It pleases the mind of some to supposedly know some grand and glorious secrets of the past, and it's real purpose is to ruin the faith. That is, the system of logic behind evolution was drafted to pre-date every religious text, and so the major points in logic in it, are in fact false. They have always been false, and I dare say, just do a search on the "Piri Reis Map" and you will actually see the whole artic region at the top of this world - when it had no ice whatsoever! All the map lines to support a freely moving navagation by sailing ships are there, as is the compass rose and drawings of sailing ships. You will see their cargo's of brightly feathered birds, monkies, natives, palm trees, camp fires, whales, and all the rest! What is the point? The point is that all the "invented stuff" and the vast geological time needed to put up "the ice ages," is in fact just a megar un-scientific myth! If what we think to be true of "geological time" was in fact true - there could be no such map showing what is far beneath the ice in an area. And the area in question is supposed to have been iced over now, for something like 4 thousand years, to tens of thousands of years, depending on whoever the "supposed expert" is that anyone is listening to.

To be even more specific, the incredible Piri Reis maps "dated from the early sisteenth century, are said to be based on earlier maps predating Alexander the Great, accurately depected the Amazon basins of South America and the northern coastline of Antarcita, and neither of these areas was even surveyed by modern man(!) until after the invention of Aircraft in the twentieth century! (See, Mars, Jim, Rule by Secrecy, HaperCollins books, 2000, page 236.)

Evolution then, cannot be true - AND IT IS MELTING AWAY - just as the polar ice caps are "melting away!" If it were true! If it were true! If evolution were indeed true(!) then all we would have to worry about would be the very gradual rise of water level, all over the globe. That conclusion, is in perfect keeping with the dicates of evolutionary logic. Please be aware of that fact! If the whole system of logic is only a fabrication in the first place, however, then we have far more to consider! For one thing, you need only take the time to mentally just try to caculate the tremendous WEIGHT involved, of all that water being moved to other areas of the globe - from where it is now as a stable solid! A second, more pressing factor that I see the real problem is the possibility "popping up," is a very sudden massive breaking of the ice that could rapidly leads to a shift in the actual "regular" orbital spin of the planet itself. That is what I think is truly "in the making." Check the records and you will find there has already been one piece, the size of all of Rhode Island breaking off. Third, please, do not be any longer deceived into thinking that it is merely a "slowly melting process, etc" that is taking place. I mean, not only the North Pole, but also the South Pole is rapidly melting. Ski lodges all over the world this winter, had to move all their operations up to higher slopes because the ice was melting, and had melted out all over the place - under the snow! Skiers would hit a patch of "ice-gone" snow, and their skies were suddenly "on rocky ground." Moreover, look at what they are saying now about the ice melting, even on other planets. (I guess the "greenhouse effect" involves a much bigger greenhouse than anyone previously imagined!)

And yes, that's exactly were the whole of the body of scientists are - strictly "on rocky ground." Their skies have hit solid rock! But they don't even know it! They have not a clue all because the books known as "the Apocrypha" were all taken out. It was not at the time of the King James Bible, however, as everyone has been led to believe. They stayed in - all the time up till the American Bible Society started sending Bibles to other nations in the early 1800's. That is also when the whole scheme of evolutional thinking was drafted into Western Civilization - and then, the rest of the world. If you look at it's orgins, Darwin's own father was a member of the "Lunar Society..." which graduated into "The Royal Society," and it was "governed by Huxley and his disciples" with their combined influence over the scientific press from 1864-1884. I would also point out that others have noted how their meetings as carried over from the secret Lunar Society were such that for decades - no one could even tell when the meetings of the "secret socieities" left off, and the meetings of the Royal Society began.

But, let's take another tack. Let's say that the Apocrypah didn't get really knocked out of the Bible. Let's say, it is still there, just as all the other Apocrypha books were in their initial places, scatted throughout the Bible. Let's say, Martin Luther did'nt make the move of pulling them all together as one packet of books, and the Puritains didn't "protest them." Let's say, the American Bible Society didn't drop them, and they were still in all the Bibles - and now we come upon this problem about the polar ice melting. You could do a "bible search" on shaking and you would surely come up with many passages, in that regard; many of those tell that in the last days, there will be a great shaking of the entire world. In that regard, I would invite you to do a search on your computer for the II Book of Esdras, and simply read some of it, starting in chapter 16.

I especially like the Random House translation by Edgar J. Goodspeed . . .

"The earth trembles to its foundations. The sea is stirred to its depths, and its waves are thrown into confusion, and its fish also, at hte presence of the Lord, and the glory of his might. For his right arm that bends the bow is strong, his arrows that he shoots are sharp; they will not miss when they begin to be shot to the ends of the earth. (II Esdras 16:12 Goodspeed ed)

A fire is lighted, and it will not be put out, until it consumes the foundations of the earth. Just as an arrow shot by a strong archer does not come back, so the disasters which shall be shot at the earth will not turn back. Alas for me! Who will deliver me in those days? (II Esdras 16:13-17 Goodspeed ed)

It is the beginning of sorrows, when there will be great mourning; the beginning of famine, when may will perish; the beginning of wars, when powers will fear; the beginning of disastes, when all will tremble." (II Esdras 16:18 Goodspeed ed)

In other words, I do firmly believe that the new heaven and the new earth - are right around the corrner! You can read more about it in this same forurm in various places where I have discussed what happens when there is a slight shift in the overall system of molecular forces.

I closing, I do hope these very brief notes will fully answer your questions.

Elijah

 

[Ishmael Borg]

Thank you for your questions. I will be glad to answer them. Frankly, I think that this is really what this little quotation thing was designed for, rather than the manner in which it is often used by others in this forum.


Here are the answers to your questions. First, the promised land is a real place. Anyone can see it when in Heaven. It is just over on the otherside of the "river of life." When anyone even thinks of crossing over, and going over there however, they immediately hear a warning voice. "It is forbidden. You cannot cross to the promised land." When I saw it, I was eleven years old. It was in 1951, after I had died and was taken up to the Paradise of God. It was basically a very, very luxurious forest that grew right up to the edge of the river. There is most probably a lot more over there than the part that I was looking at. I mean, it's probably like the blind men and the elepahant sort of thing, and I was just looking at one small part of the whole area.

Secondly, the issue about the ice caps melting - shows how INVENTIVE the whole camp of evolutionists have been. There is a philosophy prejudicial to relgion, that sets up the wisdom of man in competition with the wisdom of God. It pleases the mind of some to supposedly know some grand and glorious secrets of the past, and it's real purpose is to ruin the faith. That is, the system of logic behind evolution was drafted to pre-date every religious text, and so the major points in logic in it, are in fact false. They have always been false, and I dare say, just do a search on the "Piri Reis Map" and you will actually see the whole artic region at the top of this world - when it had no ice whatsoever! All the map lines to support a freely moving navagation by sailing ships are there, as is the compass rose and drawings of sailing ships. You will see their cargo's of brightly feathered birds, monkies, natives, palm trees, camp fires, whales, and all the rest! What is the point? The point is that all the "invented stuff" and the vast geological time needed to put up "the ice ages," is in fact just a megar un-scientific myth! If what we think to be true of "geological time" was in fact true - there could be no such map showing what is far beneath the ice in an area. And the area in question is supposed to have been iced over now, for something like 4 thousand years, to tens of thousands of years, depending on whoever the "supposed expert" is that anyone is listening to.

To be even more specific, the incredible Piri Reis maps "dated from the early sisteenth century, are said to be based on earlier maps predating Alexander the Great, accurately depected the Amazon basins of South America and the northern coastline of Antarcita, and neither of these areas was even surveyed by modern man(!) until after the invention of Aircraft in the twentieth century! (See, Mars, Jim, Rule by Secrecy, HaperCollins books, 2000, page 236.)

Evolution then, cannot be true - AND IT IS MELTING AWAY - just as the polar ice caps are "melting away!" If it were true! If it were true! If evolution were indeed true(!) then all we would have to worry about would be the very gradual rise of water level, all over the globe. That conclusion, is in perfect keeping with the dicates of evolutionary logic. Please be aware of that fact! If the whole system of logic is only a fabrication in the first place, however, then we have far more to consider! For one thing, you need only take the time to mentally just try to caculate the tremendous WEIGHT involved, of all that water being moved to other areas of the globe - from where it is now as a stable solid! A second, more pressing factor that I see the real problem is the possibility "popping up," is a very sudden massive breaking of the ice that could rapidly leads to a shift in the actual "regular" orbital spin of the planet itself. That is what I think is truly "in the making." Check the records and you will find there has already been one piece, the size of all of Rhode Island breaking off. Third, please, do not be any longer deceived into thinking that it is merely a "slowly melting process, etc" that is taking place. I mean, not only the North Pole, but also the South Pole is rapidly melting. Ski lodges all over the world this winter, had to move all their operations up to higher slopes because the ice was melting, and had melted out all over the place - under the snow! Skiers would hit a patch of "ice-gone" snow, and their skies were suddenly "on rocky ground." Moreover, look at what they are saying now about the ice melting, even on other planets. (I guess the "greenhouse effect" involves a much bigger greenhouse than anyone previously imagined!)

And yes, that's exactly were the whole of the body of scientists are - strictly "on rocky ground." Their skies have hit solid rock! But they don't even know it! They have not a clue all because the books known as "the Apocrypha" were all taken out. It was not at the time of the King James Bible, however, as everyone has been led to believe. They stayed in - all the time up till the American Bible Society started sending Bibles to other nations in the early 1800's. That is also when the whole scheme of evolutional thinking was drafted into Western Civilization - and then, the rest of the world. If you look at it's orgins, Darwin's own father was a member of the "Lunar Society..." which graduated into "The Royal Society," and it was "governed by Huxley and his disciples" with their combined influence over the scientific press from 1864-1884. I would also point out that others have noted how their meetings as carried over from the secret Lunar Society were such that for decades - no one could even tell when the meetings of the "secret socieities" left off, and the meetings of the Royal Society began.

But, let's take another tack. Let's say that the Apocrypah didn't get really knocked out of the Bible. Let's say, it is still there, just as all the other Apocrypha books were in their initial places, scatted throughout the Bible. Let's say, Martin Luther did'nt make the move of pulling them all together as one packet of books, and the Puritains didn't "protest them." Let's say, the American Bible Society didn't drop them, and they were still in all the Bibles - and now we come upon this problem about the polar ice melting. You could do a "bible search" on shaking and you would surely come up with many passages, in that regard; many of those tell that in the last days, there will be a great shaking of the entire world. In that regard, I would invite you to do a search on your computer for the II Book of Esdras, and simply read some of it, starting in chapter 16.

I especially like the Random House translation by Edgar J. Goodspeed . . .

"The earth trembles to its foundations. The sea is stirred to its depths, and its waves are thrown into confusion, and its fish also, at hte presence of the Lord, and the glory of his might. For his right arm that bends the bow is strong, his arrows that he shoots are sharp; they will not miss when they begin to be shot to the ends of the earth. (II Esdras 16:12 Goodspeed ed)

A fire is lighted, and it will not be put out, until it consumes the foundations of the earth. Just as an arrow shot by a strong archer does not come back, so the disasters which shall be shot at the earth will not turn back. Alas for me! Who will deliver me in those days? (II Esdras 16:13-17 Goodspeed ed)

It is the beginning of sorrows, when there will be great mourning; the beginning of famine, when may will perish; the beginning of wars, when powers will fear; the beginning of disastes, when all will tremble." (II Esdras 16:18 Goodspeed ed)

In other words, I do firmly believe that the new heaven and the new earth - are right around the corrner! You can read more about it in this same forurm in various places where I have discussed what happens when there is a slight shift in the overall system of molecular forces.

I closing, I do hope these very brief notes will fully answer your questions.

Elijah

Could you state your point more succinctly?

 

[Bruce D McKay Elijah]

Evolutionists - It’s Time To Give It Up!

The polar ice caps are rapidly melting. This will explain why all mankind needs to “gets a firm grip on reality!” It is high time for the scientists in every nation to awake, and forever give up on following in the science-corrupting concepts of “evolutionary thinking!”

If the evolutionists were right, don’t you think that all the evolutionists should truly love “ancient maps!” Unfortunately, they can’t stand them - and there’s a good reason why! The ancient maps prove that what the evolutionist’s claim to be true, about the ice ages – just simply isn’t true at all! For example, just consider the ancient maps that were… “found in 1929 in the Topkapi Palace in Istanbul after the hasty departure of the last Turkish Sultan. In 1956 a Turkish naval officer brought a copy of the Piri Reis map as a gift to the U.S. Hydrographic Office, and from there it was brought to Captain A.H. Mallory U.S.N.T., who happened to be an accomplished engineer, navigator, and archeologist. Mallory was fascinated by these maps and became convinced that the Piri Reis map and others represented areas of Antarctica now covered by thousands of feet of ice. These maps eventually were brought to the attention of Professor Charles Hapgood, F.R.G.S., and his students at Keene College, New Hampshire. Even with some discrepancies, the depiction of the coastlines and mountain ranges of Antarctica as far back as 1532 in the Oranteus Finaeus map indicates the existence of an ancient culture with an extraordinary knowledge of the earth's geography from a time before the ice covered the Antarctic Continent!” Note: these quotes were taken with permission, from “The Darwin Papers,” by James M. Foard. http://www.thedarwinpapers.com/oldsite/number11/Darwin11.htm

It’s easy to see why evolutionists don’t want anything to do with it, simply because… “these maps had to have been copied from more ancient sources, as they even had details of certain parts of the coastlines of North and South America and accurate details of the mountains and coastline of Antarctica that have been under miles of ice for thousands of years.” And as James M. Foard has pointed out, “explorers had not yet charted these areas during the ‘age of Exploration.’ Yet at the time these maps existed they contained detailed features of Antarctica that were not yet known since the modern science of sonar and radar in the twentieth century had not yet been perfected to detect, what the land formations underneath the ice looked like, and Antarctica itself had not been discovered for another two centuries!”

Likewise there are other equally incredible “kink-in-the-evolution-wire” of maps, to consider. For example, there is “The Hadji Ahmed map of 1559, copied from ancient (presumably Greek) maps of the world.” This map actually “showed a detailed version of the then uncharted western coastline of the North American before explorers and cartographers had surveyed them. It was even drawn more accurately than the maps of the more familiar east coast then being primitively charted by early Spanish, English and Portugese explorers. It showed the Berring Straight connecting Alaska and Russia, a land feature that geologists say existed thousands of years ago (WOAH!) but was non existenct by the time of the middle ages!”

Foard writes that “map-makers during the Age of Exploration admitted that they used some of these ancient maps to make their own inferior copies with.” That is obviously quite true! No one would have to be hard pressed to believe that, but . . . but . . . but . . . “Some of the maps had accurate pictures of the bottom of the Atlantic ocean back in the 1700's, (so) where did they get their information from?”

Good gosh fellows! Can evolution be all that it’s ‘cacked up to be,’ or is the supposed “geological time frame” simply a ultra-gigantic hoax – and there is actually something else, that’s entirely different that’s been going on all along? Is there perhaps something that has been hidden from us, all along? Well? I’ll let you decide . . .

“The Piri Reis map shows the Sahara Desert with a river system. We know from sonar readings, fossil evidence and space photographs that reveal the underlying topography of the region that one once existed there thousands of years ago,” according to Foard, who adds . . . “but how did these people who made the map know, if it was only as old as the fifteenth or sixteenth century?” We have not only that detail to consider, but Foard also points to other maps! Yes there are still more, and these . . . “other maps show coastlines and glaciers over parts of Europe that would be correct (if they) were they drawn many thousands of years ago.” For example, “Iehudi ben Zara made a map in 1487 in Alexandria that showed accurate profiles . . . of islands now under water in the Aegean Sea.”​

So, maybe we should “ask the experts." Here comes one now! Let’s see what Professor Charles Hapgood has to say. “Professor Charles Hapgood devoted his life to studying these maps and was a correspondent with Albert Einstein.” (I suppose we could see what Albert Einstein had to say about all this too.) I even have a copy of Professor “Hapgood's classic work, Maps of the Ancient Sea Kings. It documents the research done on these maps along with the conclusion he reached - that they had to have been charted by an ancient, lost civilization much more advanced in spherical and plane trigonometry than the culture of the middle ages that copied and made use of them.” Now that sounds like a fair evaluation. And in regard to what Einstein had to say about all this, he, “Albert Einstein wrote what was the forward (published posthumously) to his friend Hapgood's book Earth's Shifting Crust (Pantheon Books, N.Y., 1958).” In regard to that, Forad writes,

“both men realized that the typical conjectures of modern anthropologists could not explain this knowledge of the earths topography at such an early date in human history. These and many more ancient relics (have been) ignored by modern cultural anthropologists and paleontologists (simply) because they do not fit into their own mistaken schemes of man's past and earth's history!” But the maps . . . “vividly lay out evidence of a previous civilization of extremely high advancement that suddenly disappeared as the result of a great global catastrophe, the worldwide deluge recorded in the Bible in the Book of Genesis.”​

Steibeing, from the evolutionists camp, “tried to discount some of Hapgood's research by bringing up some of the discrepancies of the Piri Reis map, discrepancies admitted by Hapgood since Reis made his maps from more ancient ones and did not have the knowledge, in 1521, of horizontal and spherical trigonometry required to accurately position everything that he copied down when collating his material. Still, Reis' identified parts of the coastline of Antarctica three centuries before the continent was officially discovered. (And) Just as astounding are the representations of the entire continent shown in the correct latitudinal and longitudinal position with the mountains and coastlines well placed in the Finneas map from roughly the same period, mountains and coastlines that have been under two miles of ice for many thousands of years and only within the past fifty years mapped by sonar readings!”

How can evolution be correct, if the “ice ages” are not in fact tens of thousands of years old? Well, here’s someone else who certainly ought to know. His name is Captain Lorenzo W. Burroughs. Captain Burroughs was no less that the “Chief of the Cartographic Section of the USAF 8th Reconnaissance Technical Sqdn., of Westover Air Force Base, Massachusetts, and he wrote to Hapgood on August 14, 1961.

"The solution of the portolano projection used by Admiral Piri Reis, developed by your class in Anthropology,” Captain Burroughs wrote, “must be very nearly correct; for when known geographic locations are checked in relationship to the grid computed by Mr. Richard W. Strachan (of the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, who worked with Hapgood on the maps), there is remarkably close agreement . . . It is our opinion that those who compiled the original map had an excellent knowledge of the continents covered by this map. ​

As stated by Colonel Harold Z Ohlmerer . . . the Princess Martha Coast of Queen Maud Land, Antarctica, appears to be truly represented in the southern sector of the Piri Reis Map. The agreement of the Piri Reis Map with the seismic profile of this area made by the Norwegian-British-Swedish Expedition of 1949, supported by your solution of the grid, places beyond a reasonable doubt the conclusion that the original source maps must have been made before the present Antarctic ice cap covered the Queen Maud Land coasts."​

"It is our opinion that the accuracy of the cartographic features shown in the Oranteus Fineas Map (1531) suggests, beyond a doubt, that it also was compiled from accurate source maps of Antarctica, but in this case of the entire continent. Close examination has proved the original source maps must have been compiled at a time when the land mass and inland waterways of the continent were relatively free from ice. This conclusion is further supported by a comparison of the Oronteus Fineas Map with the results obtained by International Geophysical Year teams in their measurements of the subglacial topography. The comparison also suggests that the original source maps (compiled in remote antiquity) were prepared when Antarctica was presumably free of ice. The Cordiform Projection used by Oronteus Fineas suggests the use of advanced mathematics. Further, the shape given to the Antarctic continent suggests the possibility, of not probability, that the original source maps were compiled on a stereographic or gnomonic type of projection, (involving the use of spherical trigonometry)."​

"We are convinced that the findings made by you and your associates are valid, and that they raise extremely important questions affecting geology and ancient history, questions which certainly require further investigation. We thank you for extending us the opportunity to have participated in the study of these maps." ​

The following officers and airmen volunteered their time to assist Captain Lorenzo W. Burroughs in this evaluation:
Captain Richard E. Covault,
CWO Howard D. Minor,
Msgt Clifton M. Dover,
MSgt David C. Carter,
TSgt James H. Hood,
SSgt James L. Carroll,
and ALC Don R. Vance."​

Lorenzo W. Burroughs
Captain, USAF
Chief, Cartographic Section
8th Reconnaissance Technical Sqdn (SAC)
Westover Air Force Base, Massachusetts ​

Another letter of the sixth of July, 1960 from Harold Z. Ohlmeyer, Lt. Colonel, USAF, Commander at Westover Air Force Base to Professor Hapgood read:

"Your request for evaluation of certain unusual features of the Piri Reis World Map of 1513 by this organization has been reviewed."​

"The claim that the lower part of the map portrays the Princess Martha Coast of Queen Maud Land Antarctic, and the Palmer Peninsula is reasonable. We find this is the most logical and in all probability the correct interpretation of the map . . .this indicates the coastline had been mapped before it was covered by the ice cap. The ice cap in this region is now about a mile thick. We have no idea how the data on the map can be reconciled with the supposed state of geographic knowledge in 1513."​

Both correspondences are recorded in Hapgood's book "'Maps of the Ancient Sea Kings.'"

Foard writes . . .

“Evolutionists tell us that Antarctica has been covered by a glacial ice cap for millions of years. This is impossible in the light of current evidence that maps, probably made within the last ten to fifteen thousand years, were used to make inferior copies of in the middle ages, showing what the continent looked like before it was covered with ice. In addition, these ancient people had very advanced knowledge of spherical trigonometry to have made the maps, and must have colonized Antarctica when it had a temperate climate. This should not be so surprising, since we are supposed to believe that North America has had four ice ages, all within the past million years, the last one being barely twelve thousand years ago, and no (evolutionary) scientist has any really good answer as to what caused those ice ages.”​

“I believe, that many traditional archeologists, schooled in the drab, evolutionary school of thinking, exhibit a form of extreme Euro-centricism, as well as what I would term, Pale-agarophobia, they do not wish to believe that older cultures other than our own, from other parts of the globe, could have developed such advanced and extensive civilized communities, or have made journeys to explore the entire world. This represents a modernist, ethnic bias found not only in Darwin's writings but continuing on with the writings of the present crop of evolutionists.”​

In brief, these things show - there “isn’t one single China-man's chance in all of God’s whole, wide, world,” as my Dad usta say - that either evolution or evolutionistic geology is possibly true! Stated even more succinctly - all the evolutionists need to "give it up," and go on back home!

Bruce D. McKay, Elijah

 

[rudenski]

Great quotes or pearls that survive death Elijah:
"...we ourselves were also weak, sometimes foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving divers lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful, and hating one another." (Titus 3:3)

Who or what gets saved?

What does saved mean?

Do "saved" christians who are weak, sometimes foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving divers lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful, and hating one another bring all of that weakness to heaven when they die?


What gets saved is that which pleases the God=Love... and what is that? When we are weak, humble ourselves and admit we were wrong; when we are foolish and do the best we can to serve God anyway; when we chase after things of the flesh and know we are wrong but wake up in the morning and try again to carry the cross; when we hold a grudge or want to be just like the Jones' and we get in trouble but get back up every day and forgive our neighbors and forgive ourselves because hate hurts the hater; every person who saves up his anger and fear is saving up for a battle to control the things of this world but those that store up love in their hearts for God, themselves, and their neighbors are saving what truly transcends this life and follows us into the next life.

What is saved to me is much more important than who is saved. Spreading a message of love and forgiveness is the message that Jesus(Yahshua, Yehshua, or Joshua) spread but by any other name but love, salvation is a changed way of perceiving the world. Those that know salvation, know the love of God and they for one moment at least become aware of a love so pure that it fundamentally changes their spirit. At that moment of salvation we come to know God's love and we can carry that message to the world or not. What is saved is that message of love we were given and nothing else.... certainly not out actions but our intention to bring love to the world that survives death and the grave. If that message of love comes from the saved or un-saved, that message will live forever unto the day of judgement and everything else will be forgotten by God.

"But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared. Not by (any) works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Gost; which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior." (Titus 3:4-6)

 

[Jet Black]

Could you state your point more succinctly?

I didn't realise Atheists believed in miracles.

 

[Mistermystery]

Should we actually reply to that elaijh person, or just make fun of him? Evolution says that the polar caps were under ice for millions of years? What the *µ©*? Seriously: Stop copying nonsense from other people, and start thinking for yourself, because this is annoying.

 

[Jet Black]

Should we actually reply to that elaijh person, or just make fun of him? Evolution says that the polar caps were under ice for millions of years? What the *µ©*? Seriously: Stop copying nonsense from other people, and start thinking for yourself, because this is annoying.

my answer:

This message is hidden because Bruce D McKay, Elijah is on your ignore list.

Bruce makes Ikester's hydrogen canopy look sensible. at least the hydrogen canopy relies on things that exist, such as metallic hydrogen and so on, even though the properties don't allow what he says they allow. Bruce has a strong Whiskey Tango Foxtrot factor though.

 

[Mistermystery]

my answer: Ignore

I never put anyone on ignore, or else I might miss out on the zaniness. And we don't want that to happen.

 

[JohnR7]

Should we actually reply to that elaijh person, or just make fun of him?

It depends on what sort of a reward you want.

Matthew 10:41
He who receives a prophet in the name of a prophet shall receive a prophet's reward. And he who receives a righteous man in the name of a righteous man shall receive a righteous man's reward.

 

[JohnR7]

Those that know salvation, know the love of God and they for one moment at least become aware of a love so pure that it fundamentally changes their spirit.

Psalm 84:10
For a day in Your courts is better than a thousand.
I would rather be a doorkeeper in the house of my God
Than dwell in the tents of wickedness.

It is better to spend a moment with God, than 1000 moments apart from God.

People will gamble their future for a moment of sin, how much would they be willing to sacifice for a moment with God?

 

[JohnR7]

I haven't had you on ignore in a long time.

Ah, so you admit you had me on ignore

Besides, compared to some of our more recent Creationists, you're actually pretty rational...

I heard that a lot after I had been away for a while. One of the reasons I come to this forum is because the people here are not so dogmatic as they are on some of the christian only forums.

Perhaps the secret is to not take ourselves to serious and to realize that GASP, we maybe wrong about some minor little point every now and then, so that we leave ourselves open to making adjustments in our thinking.

Perhaps it's alright to be hard headed if you have a soft heart. It is the people who harden their heart who seem to cause the most trouble.

 

[JohnR7]

Could you state your point more succinctly?

He seems to be talking about a time of great tribulation that is going to be coming upon this world and in fact has already begun. The world will be shaken as it has never been shaken before and it will never be shaken like that again.

I believe it will take place in about 25 years and no one has been able to show me otherwise. I believe the church age will last for 2000 years, beginning on whenever the day of Pentacost was.

The church age is also refered to as the age of grace or the Holy Ghost Dispensation. This is what you call dispensationalist theology or doctorine. You find it a lot in pentacostal churches.

There were two great events. Calvery and Pentacost. Baptists tend to talk a lot about Calvery, Pentacostals tend to talk a lot about the day of Pentacost when the church began and the Holy Spirit of God was poured out on the church.

Jesus talks about this in Matthew 24:3 when His disciples asked Him: "what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?" What took place in Jerusalem, when the Romans burned the city, is a type of what is going to soon take place world wide, at the end of this age.

 

[JohnR7]

If the evolutionists were right, don’t you think that all the evolutionists should truly love “ancient maps!”

\

I do not see what "ancient maps" have to do with anything. That is what Darwin was doing for five years. They were commissioned to make a map to chart out some trade routes.

I doubt if the north and the south pole had even been charted. If it is not on the map, it is because no one went there to chart it to put it on the map. Even today, it would be around four hours faster to fly to asia over the north pole. But the pilots will not do it. They want to take the safe but longer way to Asia.

I have some autographs here that my dad gave me of some famious scientiest who were the first to even explore the north and the south pole. Two hundred years ago, no one had ever even been there, to do any kind of exploration, and little was known about the poles.

Today, scientific research is more common, and we know a lot more about them then we did in the past.

 

[Jet Black]

Bruce has got it right. Look how the world has changed in the past 2200 years, crikey, if people were to find that out, evolution would be right up the swanny. China has still to be built on the end of india (which is a funny shape) Japan is way out there, Russia seems strangely absent, as does the entirity of scandinavia. Britain seems to have completely lost the plot, and is displaying signs of bad spinal curvature, Australia is still in the dreamtime and the Americas are nowhere to be seen. Still in playtesting apparently, and not due to be released onto the public domain for another 1500 years or more.

http://geosun.sjsu.edu/paula/137/html/lecture14/img003.jpg

 

[MQTA]

This must be how we looked when we were a flat earth

(edit: this is how Homer viewed the world, ca 900 BC)

 

[MQTA]

World according to Hecataeus (6th century B.C.)​

 

[MQTA]

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World map according to Posidonius (150-130 B.C.)​

 

[MQTA]

Reconstruction of the World map according to Pomponius Mela (ca. 40 A.D.) ​

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[MQTA]

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Reconstruction of the Orbis Terrarum (20 A.D.)​

The world sure was different then.​