Evolution is the Great Apostasy

[lucaspa]

The melt down at the polar ice caps that is currently overtaking this world, is a real thing - and there are a bunch of "evolutionists" who can't explain it, or put it into any REAL PERSPECTIVE. That's the point!

Then it's an invalid point. You also seem to have some very mistaken views about what evolution is.

Melting of polar ice caps and other signs of warming have been noted by climatologists for years.
______________________

April 17th March 2004, post #141 . . .

"Moreover, please do not think all this is merely a "Christian invention." The Hindus even (Quote) "depict the cosmic catastrophe at the end of a world age:

Ah, so you are proposing millenialism.

Just because YOUR FATHERS invented a SYSTEM OF LOGIC that over rules all that the whole world has believed in and said to be true, since all of recorded history began, do you really think entire SCHEME of logic (i.e., evolution) makes any sense at all in light of the polar melt down that is now taking place?

Evolution is a "scheme of logic"? Since when? Where do you think the investigation of the Antarctic ice sheet and the melting of polar ice is coming from? From those who, according to you, believe in a faulty logic scheme! The irony is plain to see.

It SHARPLY invalidates your entire system of logic! The people of the entire world are sitting at the edge of a tremendous revolution in the geological nature of this world - and we are all being told that we don't need to worry for a 10,000 years or so!

And here I thought the climatologists at the Kyoto Summit were warning that catastrophe could stike in the next 100 years if we don't take steps to halt global warning. Were you not paying attention?

REALITY in this case, is that the "ice ages conept" is invalid, and the ice caps of the planet are in a rapid very rapid melt down.

The concept of ice ages is quite well. Remember, there have been interglacial periods. One of the hypotheses for explaining the ice ages is having open water at the North Pole. That provides the water vapor for the snowfall that makes the glaciers. Only when the water level drops so that the Arctic Ocean freezes again does the Ice Age stop.

Do you get it? That's the "reality" of what is going on - right now - in the real world. And you need to let go of all that "theory" and "intelectualizing" and start looking at what is TRULY happening.

The theories explain what is happening. That is, gives the why of it happening. You seem to think the "why" is an act of God.

 

[lucaspa]

Evolution vs Mount Sion and Blindness
By Bruce D. McKay, Elijah

This explains how the blindness occurs. Men call it “scientific” when they postulate that all things have always been as they are now, and that there have been no great moments of divine intervention, neither to create, to reveal, or to punish.

That's not a postulate. Bruce, scientists started out postulating a great moment of divine intervention -- the Noachian Flood -- that accounted for all geological features. Then they tested that postulate-theory. What they found were rock strata that simply could not be explained by a Flood. the eliminated strata after strata as being caused by a Flood until, by 1820, only the most superficial gravels and morraines were said to be caused by the Flood. Then later data falsified even that as being caused by a Flood.

Lyell and others introduced uniformitarianism, which is the idea that processes we see operating now also operated in the past. They tested whether those processes actually produced geological features and found that they did. However, that did not eliminate individual catastrophic events.

The KT extinction event has been shown to be caused by the catastrophe of a very large meteor hitting the earth. This was first hypothesized because of the observation of high amounts of iridium in the sediment at the KT boundary.

The Permian extinction -- an even worse catastrophe as far as life is concerned -- is hypothesized to have, as one of its causes, massive volcanic eruptions in the Deccan Plateau in India.

It appears that you acknowledge the data that the earth is warming and that polar ice caps are melting. But you reject the hypothesis that this is caused by the accumulation of gasses that are causing the trapping of heat in the atmosphere -- what is called the greenhouse effect.

[quote[ In that regard it is totally impossible to comprehend the scientific reality of a young earth,[/quote]Scientists started out thinking the earth was young. It was the evidence God left us in His Creation that convinced everyone that this idea was wrong. And, in case you think it was atheistic bias, it was Christians who decided the earth was not young. Many of the people who gathered the data were ministers.

while being dead in one’s own trespasses and sins” (Ephesians 2:1). That is, it is only possible for a given individual to see the real world, after you’ve been given a new spirit, or a regeneration of your spiritual being occurs, which God himself has provided for all mankind on the basis of the anointing death of Christ.

As I noted, then it was people who had been given a new spirit who did see the real world, and found it to be old, not young.

 

[Jet Black]

BTW, global warming does not "come from Ozone". Ozone is not a greenhouse gas.

I thought it was, though not a major one. The problem with Ozone occurs when it is at a low altitude, then it acts as a greehouse gas. It is a common error though to associate global warming with the depletion of the stratospheric ozone layer. that being said, bruce was still completely wrong.

 

[lucaspa]

Greenland Proves Evolution Is All Wrong!

Bruce, the map doesn't show Greenland. It shows the Greenland Basin north of Canada and Alaska. But the point where Greenland is supposed to have fallen isn't the location of Greenland! It's the islands north of Canada. Here, on this map you can see those islands at the intersection of the map http://www.skilledgeoscience.com/terraneHelp/NthAmerica.swf

Area 1 is where your map shows the Greenland Basin. Area 2 is the location of Greenland.

The Greenland Basin is actually to the east of Greenland (click on Area 1 to enlarge and get names), while your map has it to the west. I'm afraid you have based your whole argument on a faulty map.

 

[Jet Black]

I'm afraid you have based your whole argument on a faulty map.

not to mention the lack of Greenland being talked about in the TOE.

 

[cottagerose]

It has been my experience that evolutionists and atheists admit that they really do not want God to exist,and that they want to be the boss of their own lives,not ever having to answer for the wrongs they do or the sins they commit,but when they finally do get what they want they will destroy one another and no one but God will stop them from killing every last one of them,then they will face judgment.We don't have to worry about them at all,God knows who will be saved,and Yes,it most definately will be part of the one world religion. When freedom to sin is given to the nasty,they kill each other.History proves it.

 

[Mistermystery]

It has been my experience that evolutionists and atheists admit that they really do not want God to exist,and that they want to be the boss of their own lives,

It has been my expierence that many cristians overgeneralize. the keyword here is many because of course not all do, but there are many that do. This young lady here is no exception unfortunatly. And it seems to me that she thinks that evolution = atheism. Which of course is a big fat lie. Even if that's true you sohuld let those people lead their own lives and let them be.

not ever having to answer for the wrongs they do or the sins they commit,but when they finally do get what they want they will destroy one another and no one but God will stop them from killing every last one of them,then they will face judgment.

This is just pathetic. Pascal Wagner anyone? Repent yeh sinner unless you want to burn in hell! I'm sorry ma'am, but you are not going to convince anyone by threatening them. Furthermore this thread is about evolution, and has unfortunatly little to do with judgement and so on. Again, you overgeneralise. How dare you even to say that atheists or people who are evolutionists destroy each other? An honest question, do you honestly believe that ma'am?

We don't have to worry about them at all,God knows who will be saved,and Yes,it most definately will be part of the one world religion. When freedom to sin is given to the nasty,they kill each other.History proves it.

I don't have to worry about you at all. I know that when one makes empty threaths and empty promises, only the people who don't think rationally will follow that person.

 

[Nathan Poe]

It has been my experience that evolutionists and atheists admit that they really do not want God to exist,and that they want to be the boss of their own lives,not ever having to answer for the wrongs they do or the sins they commit,but when they finally do get what they want they will destroy one another and no one but God will stop them from killing every last one of them,then they will face judgment.

It has been my experience that you have not had very much experience with evolution, Atheism, science, or short, coherent sentence structure.

We don't have to worry about them at all,God knows who will be saved,and Yes,it most definately will be part of the one world religion. When freedom to sin is given to the nasty,they kill each other.History proves it.

And when authority is given to religious fundamentalists, they kill everyone else. History proves that, too...

 

[cottagerose]

It has been my expierence that many cristians overgeneralize. the keyword here is many because of course not all do, but there are many that do. This young lady here is no exception unfortunatly. And it seems to me that she thinks that evolution = atheism. Which of course is a big fat lie. Even if that's true you sohuld let those people lead their own lives and let them be.

This is just pathetic. Pascal Wagner anyone? Repent yeh sinner unless you want to burn in hell! I'm sorry ma'am, but you are not going to convince anyone by threatening them. Furthermore this thread is about evolution, and has unfortunatly little to do with judgement and so on. Again, you overgeneralise. How dare you even to say that atheists or people who are evolutionists destroy each other? An honest question, do you honestly believe that ma'am?

I don't have to worry about you at all. I know that when one makes empty threaths and empty promises, only the people who don't think rationally will follow that person.

I am not threatening anyone. If you do not believe me about what I have written about my personal experience thats your choice to make,but there are plenty of message boards you can find out there that prove it's true. Even if they are this way,they may have the right to live as they wish,but why do so many of them like to be unkind to christians or try to stop them from having rights? Christians have a right to be christians you know?
Not all atheists and evolutionists are this way,but I said,in my experience,many of them are.I have met theist evolutionionists too,and they really feel that the book of Genesis is not literal. I believe it is.
I hope you were not offended,but I get offended when christians are being treated unkind too,so why can't everyone be more cautious then?

 

[cottagerose]

It has been my expierence that many cristians overgeneralize. the keyword here is many because of course not all do, but there are many that do. This young lady here is no exception unfortunatly. And it seems to me that she thinks that evolution = atheism. Which of course is a big fat lie. Even if that's true you sohuld let those people lead their own lives and let them be.

This is just pathetic. Pascal Wagner anyone? Repent yeh sinner unless you want to burn in hell! I'm sorry ma'am, but you are not going to convince anyone by threatening them. Furthermore this thread is about evolution, and has unfortunatly little to do with judgement and so on. Again, you overgeneralise. How dare you even to say that atheists or people who are evolutionists destroy each other? An honest question, do you honestly believe that ma'am?

I don't have to worry about you at all. I know that when one makes empty threaths and empty promises, only the people who don't think rationally will follow that person.

O.K.,you may not destroy one another now,but just wait until you are free to do it!
What will stop you? Without laws there will be lawlessness. I have heard all of your claims and arguments before,and they don't make any real sense at all.If you say you believe in
evolution simply because you say it makes the most sense is not getting you anywhere,and it forces people to believe you just don't want to be held accountable for the things you do.The TOE idea takes alot more faith to believe in than it takes to believe in The God of the holy bible.
I am not trying to offend you,I am expressing my opinion. I believe that those who cannot believe God or in any God have better excuses they can come up with than evolution.

 

[Mistermystery]

I am not threatening anyone. If you do not believe me about what I have written about my personal experience thats your choice to make,but there are plenty of message boards you can find out there that prove it's true.

First of all, it sure felt like you were threathening for a second. But if you say that you didn't mean that then it's okay. Secondly; if you say that there is proof for either the original topic (i.o.w. against evolution (which I might add is not a pratt-list)) or for an afterlife, I will gladly see it. You must understand though what the word proof means.

Even if they are this way,they may have the right to live as they wish,but why do so many of them like to be unkind to christians or try to stop them from having rights? Christians have a right to be christians you know?

Ma'am I have no idea what you are talking about. I do know that there are some pretty sh¡tty Christians as well. it's a fact that humans in general are only social when they feel like it.

Not all atheists and evolutionists are this way,but I said,in my experience,many of them are.I have met theist evolutionionists too,and they really feel that the book of Genesis is not literal. I believe it is.

That's your good right. All I ask from you is that you don'impose that belief upon me, and we'll get allong just fine. If you ever have the need to tell other people about it, and especially in a way like you did before, then you're bound to get those kind of reactions.

I hope you were not offended,but I get offended when christians are being treated unkind too,so why can't everyone be more cautious then?

No I was not offended, I have no grudge against an other human being.

O.K.,you may not destroy one another now,but just wait until you are free to do it! What will stop you? Without laws there will be lawlessness.

uh... I don't know what kind of senario you are trying to pull there, but unfortunatly I don't see how this senario is gonna happen. I live in a country that has laws, and probably will have laws forever. If it doesn't then we won't turn into savages in anyway.

I have heard all of your claims and arguments before,and they don't make any real sense at all.If you say you believe in evolution simply because you say it makes the most sense is not getting you anywhere,and it forces people to believe you just don't want to be held accountable for the things you do.

Ma'am, I am not makingany claims in that post you quoted. But if you insist: I believe in evolution because I for instance can see proof for it. Like the bones of dinosaurs, or our ancestors. And for instance I can see how rv have entered our bodies and those of other animals. There was an intresting thread about retro-virusses a while ago, I suggest you read it.

Again: evolution has nothing to do with my belief. Evolution is an explaination how the biodiversity has come to this planet. Evolution doesn't try to disprove of God, or tries to disprove of the afterlife. I hope that I explained it clearly for you.

The TOE idea takes alot more faith to believe in than it takes to believe in The God of the holy bible.

for you. For me, it's very obvious that the Earth is more then 6000 years old. For example Ice-layers in the polar caps. Or the rings on various trees, or the layers in the earth, or old civilazations, or supernovas, or light of stars, etc etc etc.

If God put all that evidence in the stars and in the Earth, then god is either lieing to me, or makeing it impossible for me to believe in me.

I am not trying to offend you,I am expressing my opinion. I believe that those who cannot believe God or in any God have better excuses they can come up with than evolution.

I am not offended, I am expressing my point of view. again, evolution doesn't disprove of God in ANY way. it merely explains that Genesis is not completly correct.

Edit: -- What I meant with that last part, The bible was never meant as a siencebook. The book was written over X of thousands of years ago. This book is meant to be a theological book, that tries to give a p.o.v. on how people back in the day thought how the earth came to be. Their worldview was not as our worldview today. We now know more. We know that the world is round. We know that the earth has an athmossphere. We now know that there're continents like Australia. People back then didn't.

 

[Jet Black]

What will stop you? Without laws there will be lawlessness.

that would be stating the obvious.

I have heard all of your claims and arguments before,and they don't make any real sense at all.

which ones?

If you say you believe in evolution simply because you say it makes the most sense is not getting you anywhere,

aside from that making no sense, one does not believe evolution, one accepts it because it is the best supported theory, bar none.

and it forces people to believe you just don't want to be held accountable for the things you do.

sorry, I cannot understand this at all.

The TOE idea takes alot more faith to believe in than it takes to believe in The God of the holy bible.

again, one does not believe evolution, one accepts it because it has the most evidence and the most predictive power and has not been falsified.

I am not trying to offend you,I am expressing my opinion. I believe that those who cannot believe God or in any God have better excuses they can come up with than evolution.

what? is English your first language? I don't want to sound insulting, but I barely understood any of this.

 

[rudenski]

By Jonathan Amos
BBC News Online science staff



The dense, blue ice of the San Rafael Glacier
One of South America's leading natural tourist destinations, the San Rafael Glacier in Chile, is retreating at an alarming rate, say UK scientists.
Located in a World Heritage Site, the glacier draws thousands of visitors each year to marvel at the way icebergs calve into the sea from its front wall.

But Dr Neil Glasser and colleagues say rapid melting is now under way because of historically high air temperatures.

They warn that if the glacier withdraws on to the land, tourism will suffer.

This glacier was relatively stable for 3,000-5,000 years and then suddenly, in the last 100 years, it came back

Dr Neil Glasser
"This glacier is not only in a World Heritage Site, it is also in a Unesco biosphere reserve and huge national park," Dr Glasser, from the University of Wales, Aberystwyth, told BBC News Online.

"If the glacier retreats further up valley, it will cease to calve icebergs into the Laguna San Rafael, and one of the reasons why this area attracts so many tourists will be largely gone."

Temperature records

The San Rafael Glacier is part of the Northern Patagonian Icefield.


It is one of the fastest-moving glaciers in the world, flowing at 17m a day.

Falling from an altitude near to 3,000m right down to sea level, it is driven on by gravity and the mass of prodigious quantities of snowfall high up in the Andes.

Now, Glasser and Aberystwyth colleague Dr Krister Jansson, together with Dr Stephan Harrison from Oxford University, have been able to show that the glacier's front wall stands 1km further back in the water compared with the early 1990s.

Calving activity off the 70m-high vertical ice cliff has been dramatically reduced, too.

"We first went there 13 years ago.


Tourists visit the site to see icebergs break off
"People put paint marks on the rock wall where the glacier was then; they even built a lookout post directly over the front of the glacier in 92," Dr Glasser said.

"This year, the glacier is nowhere near this point - it's about a kilometre back from where it was.

"We've looked at the precipitation records closest to this area and they show no obvious change over the last 100 years, but they do have a rise in temperature recorded."

Mirrored recession

Scientists concede their historical data on the extent of glaciers - across much of the world, not just in South America - is patchy. However, they argue a consistent pattern of recession is beginning to emerge with many ice bodies from the Artic to the tropics.

At San Rafael, the glacier's position was recorded once in the late 1800s as being more than 10km further out into the sea than it is now.

And moraine, the sediments dumped by the glacier, about 12km from the present ice front are currently being dated by the UK team - but are expected to be 3,000-5,000 years old.


Jansson and Glasser have been going to the laguna for over a decade
"So it seems this glacier was relatively stable for 3,000-5,000 years and then suddenly, in the last 100 years, it came back.

Dr Harrison added: "In recent years, the glaciers of the Northern Patagonian Icecap have been melting rapidly as a result of global warming, and the San Rafael Glacier has mirrored this retreat.

"The Patagonian icefields are losing ice more rapidly than any other comparable ice masses on Earth and we must see this as the inevitable consequence of global climate change."

Last year, US researchers working in the Patagonian icefields reported similar concerns. The Nasa-led study, published in the journal Science, looked at ice loss in 63 areas, comparing data from three decades.

The researchers found ice was lost at a rate sufficient to push up ocean waters by 0.04mm per year during the period from 1975 through to 2000.

 

[Bruce D McKay Elijah]

This is just an observation, but I was recently reminded how difficult it is to deal with an alcoholic... the more you try to tell them not to get drunk, the more they want to drink. Likewise, the evolutionist. I mean, the more you tell him how the whole world is far, far different from what he imagines, the more it causes hem to just want to go out and dig up more and more fossils! The parallel is amazing. It is without a doubt, like having a person yelling at you and trying to get you to drop down to a screaming match, so that he can supposedly "prove his point," when it's all you can do to try and communicate with the guy, while not being dragged down to his level! Based on this observation it seems evident that the evolutionist has many of the same elements as the person who has an alcoholic personality. To give up what is so much a part of their life would mean that they would of necessity, be required to live some kind of a more, normal life! And they tend to think that the self-destructive life they are already living, is somehow, far superior, or somehow better yet, than that of their fellow man!

 

[Bruce D McKay Elijah]

This gal cottagerose does have a lot on the ball!

Well said my dear!

You are right on track and I congratulate you for being out there on the front line, saying it!

May the Lord Keey you safely, in the hollow of His hand!
Elijah

 

[Jet Black]

nice ad hominem there bruce. could you leave that for another forum plz? thx.

 

[Jet Black]

This gal cottagerose does have a lot on the ball!

Well said my dear!

You are right on track and I congratulate you for being out there on the front line, saying it!

May the Lord Keey you safely, in the hollow of His hand!
Elijah

you undestood her? heh, I have never heard of typing in tongues before.

 

[Bruce D McKay Elijah]

"In that regard it is totally impossible to comprehend the scientific reality of a young earth,[/quote]Scientists started out thinking the earth was young. It was the evidence God left us in His Creation that convinced everyone that this idea was wrong. And, in case you think it was atheistic bias, it was Christians who decided the earth was not young. Many of the people who gathered the data were ministers."
I don't care of they were all a bunch of Oral Roberts impersonators! The point is that there is no millions of millions of millions of years involved! The point is that there are CATASTROPHIC happenings that occur - like the whole strata turning into mush! And when the strata ships back to a more hard form, obviously it results in fossils - in the rocks! Hey! Millions and millions of years went by? How many millions of years has it taken so far for the 10 million year ice age to simply FLUSH out?
Somehow - the scientific community NEEDS TO WAKE UP TO THE FACT that the concept bridge of evolutionistic geology is an absolute farce. It is no wonder the Bible says that right up to the day it happens, everyone will be drinking and marrying and having a grand ol time just as they did in the days of Noa - without being the least bit aware that the "judgement Day of God" is upon them! The Bible says, that one day is going to be equal to a thousand years! And you will read this and scratch your head and say, "what is he talking about?"

It's isn't a secret code. When enough WEIGHT gets displaced with all that ICE MELTING DOWN what do you as an evolutionist, think might possibly happen then? Don't go and hide behind east and west and all that bluff stuff! Just let us know what happens when the weight of a spinning object shifts dramatically - and if you can't figure that out it's time for you to find somebody who can explain it to you better than me! The problem is, no body wants to pull the Ostridge heads out of the "theorizing" and the "bluffing stuffing" that they have been throwing around as the supposedly real truth!
Elijah

 

[EvolvEarth]

This is just an observation, but I was recently reminded how difficult it is to deal with an alcoholic... the more you try to tell them not to get drunk, the more they want to drink. Likewise, the evolutionist. I mean, the more you tell him how the whole world is far, far different from what he imagines, the more it causes hem to just want to go out and dig up more and more fossils! The parallel is amazing. It is without a doubt, like having a person yelling at you and trying to get you to drop down to a screaming match, so that he can supposedly "prove his point," when it's all you can do to try and communicate with the guy, while not being dragged down to his level! Based on this observation it seems evident that the evolutionist has many of the same elements as the person who has an alcoholic personality. To give up what is so much a part of their life would mean that they would of necessity, be required to live some kind of a more, normal life! And they tend to think that the self-destructive life they are already living, is somehow, far superior, or somehow better yet, than that of their fellow man!

This is what one resorts to when he or she cannot think up an intelligent, well supported argument against his or her opponent.

What I find odd is that it isn't the "evolutionists" you are referring to, but the creationists. An alcoholic doesn't try to rationalize his or her substance abuse, but instead tries to deny his or her substance abuse. The creationists deny the flaws in creationism and then attacks those who accept evolution for showing them the error in their ways.

I just find it so incredibly amazing when someone, such as yourself, claims so vehemently to know the absolute truth about our origins, the supernatural, and such without ANY empirical evidence. Wow...

 

[Bruce D McKay Elijah]

To Western Diety -

The "terribly convincing argument" you try to discredit, shows a basin where Greenland was once located. The markings on the ocean floor evidence that the whole continent as pushed back about 300 miles, apparently lifted at the narrowest end, and then it moved from an 8 o'clock position to about a 4 o'clock possition, before it came back down to where it is now, in it's present postion. WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU? DO YOU NOT SEE THAT THIS COULD NEVER HAPPEN OVER ANY GREAT SPAN OF TIME! It doesn't even begin to fit ANYTHING that the evolutionists claim to have happened! So IF YOU CAN EXPLAIN THAT AWAY - I will agree that evolution is true!

If any evolutionists can explain how that could happen, everyone would be astounded! As it is - everyone is looking at all this stuff about a vast geological time frame and they are saying IT JUST DOESN'T ADD UP! And, the evolutionistic time frame doesn't "add up!"

The POLAR ICE CAPS ARE MELTING and
SO IS THE LOGICAL BASIS OF EVOLUTION!

Elijah