Evolution is proven false!

[Queller]

Why are you mentioning toddlers?

In order for Adam and Eve, full adults, to have full free will, they needed
to have a choice. Contrary to what you might think, they knew fully well
what right and wrong was and had the choice to not eat the fruit.

Got any scriptural evidence for that claim?

 

[Mr Strawberry]

It's a simple matter of God taking the death sentence
that sinners rightly deserve. :o

And who is doing the forgiving? Who is god trying to impress enough with his noble sacrifice to allow the sinners to be forgiven?

 

[SkyWriting]

And who is doing the forgiving? Who is god trying to impress enough with his noble sacrifice to allow the sinners to be forgiven?

Try to imagine having a child of yours kill your neighbor with it's bare hands.
Then you choosing to take the punishment for your child so it doesn't
go to the electric chair.

The deed is not forgiven, but the child is forgiven by the Father.

 

[SkyWriting]

Confirmation bias does give some people the impression that prayer works.

True enough. What I've experienced does not meet the requirements for bias to occur.

 

[SkyWriting]

Such a loving god you have there. Do you have a date for that?

I have no known date for the flood or my death.

 

[JacksBratt]

Oh good grief!

So the results from prayer are no different to not praying at all. Some people will get worse, some will get better and some will die.

Try to think of it as the same relationship you have with your parents. God is my "heavenly" father. The relationship is similar.

If my dad knew I wanted a new bike but I never asked him then why would he address it. Unless he, out of the kindness of his heart, bought me one. If I ask, however, then he can say "ya sure", "well, lets wait until spring" , "no you will have to get by for another year".

My earthly parents looked after the needs they could provide. God does the same.

God knows what we want but still desires the relationship with us and wants us to ask Him.

If I never ask my dad for a new bike, he may figure I'm doing fine with what I have and allow me to ride it for years.

There are many times in the Bible where God didn't do anything or was going to do something and His actions were changed due to prayer.

 

[JacksBratt]

Satan gets His orders from God.

No, God restrains Satan. Satan would have us all dead and in hell if he could. When he goes to do anything God filters it. It is all for Gods plan. No man is allowed to be put under stresses that he can withstand. God always allows an out that is righteous.

 

[JacksBratt]

Well, the bottom line is, does any child deserve to die of a poverty related illness? And the only sane answer is 'no'. However, some whacky believers will try and persuade you otherwise.

So, what is the cause of poverty? Is it not a situation caused by the greed of humans.

News in Canada just reported that 1% of the world population are more wealthy and have more money than the other 99% (not really a news flash for us)

So if people are in poverty because of man's greed, corruption, illegal activity, lack of sympathy, or the laziness of someone who doesn't want to work, Is God supposed to just show up and disperse the wealth again? Drop a couple hundred grand in everyone's bank account? No, man is left to his own actions. The human race will, just like every individual, be a product of it's choices. Crime, poverty, STD's, overpopulation, corrupt governments, wars, genocide... the list goes on. It is mans sin and a sinful world that causes these atrocities.

The human population needs to remember...."chose to sin..... chose to suffer"

 

[Loudmouth]

I have no known date for the flood or my death.

Such a flood would leave a pretty obvious signature in the geologic record. Why can't you point to it?

 

[lewiscalledhimmaster]

And who is doing the forgiving? Who is god trying to impress enough with his noble sacrifice to allow the sinners to be forgiven?

I guess it's pretty much a shut door event, that courtesy of the NT we get to peek at. However it's regarded as one of the great mysteries of the Christian sacred texts. It's generally something that is discussed in quieter chambers.

 

[Mr Strawberry]

Try to imagine having a child of yours kill your neighbor with it's bare hands.
Then you choosing to take the punishment for your child so it doesn't
go to the electric chair.

The deed is not forgiven, but the child is forgiven by the Father.

Your example doesn't work because the parent and the person dishing out the punishment or giving a pardon are not the same person. Which brings me back to the question:

And who is doing the forgiving? Who is god trying to impress enough with his noble sacrifice to allow the sinners to be forgiven?

 

[Mr Strawberry]

So, what is the cause of poverty? Is it not a situation caused by the greed of humans.

News in Canada just reported that 1% of the world population are more wealthy and have more money than the other 99% (not really a news flash for us)

So if people are in poverty because of man's greed, corruption, illegal activity, lack of sympathy, or the laziness of someone who doesn't want to work, Is God supposed to just show up and disperse the wealth again? Drop a couple hundred grand in everyone's bank account? No, man is left to his own actions. The human race will, just like every individual, be a product of it's choices. Crime, poverty, STD's, overpopulation, corrupt governments, wars, genocide... the list goes on. It is mans sin and a sinful world that causes these atrocities.

The human population needs to remember...."chose to sin..... chose to suffer"

So your god is non-interventionist and praying won't change a thing. Yes?

 

[SkyWriting]

Your example doesn't work because the parent and the person dishing out the punishment or giving a pardon are not the same person.

Then we will assume for this example that the father
is the Supreme Court Chief Justice John G. Roberts
and he is holding himself and his child to his own rules.

 

[SkyWriting]

So your god is non-interventionist and praying won't change a thing. Yes?

God can change your prayer to match his answer to it.
It floors you when it happens.

 

[SkyWriting]

Such a flood would leave a pretty obvious signature in the geologic record. Why can't you point to it?

It may not have been normal water acting normally.
For examples:

1. When this man tasted the water, which had now become wine, without knowing where it came from (though naturally the servants who had drawn the water knew), he called out to the bridegroom and said to him, "Everybody I know puts his good wine on first and then when men have had plenty to drink, he brings out the poor stuff. But you have kept back your good wine till now!"

2. And when they had done this, they caught an enormous shoal of fish - so big that the nets began to tear.

3. Then he got to his feet and rebuked the wind and the waters and there was a great calm.

4. And he woke up, rebuked the wind, and said to the waves, "Hush now! Be still!" The wind dropped and everything was very still.

Jesus, Miracles, Water to Wine, Walking on Water, Feeding the 4000



Much of the flood waters came from "Fountains of the deep."
This is a mysterious term that nobody has come up with
any clarity on.

 

[Davian]

True enough. What I've experienced does not meet the requirements for bias to occur.

It also does not meet the requirements for being taken seriously by others.

 

[Davian]

It may not have been normal water acting normally.
For examples:

1. When this man tasted the water, which had now become wine, without knowing where it came from (though naturally the servants who had drawn the water knew), he called out to the bridegroom and said to him, "Everybody I know puts his good wine on first and then when men have had plenty to drink, he brings out the poor stuff. But you have kept back your good wine till now!"

2. And when they had done this, they caught an enormous shoal of fish - so big that the nets began to tear.

3. Then he got to his feet and rebuked the wind and the waters and there was a great calm.

4. And he woke up, rebuked the wind, and said to the waves, "Hush now! Be still!" The wind dropped and everything was very still.

Jesus, Miracles, Water to Wine, Walking on Water, Feeding the 4000



Much of the flood waters came from "Fountains of the deep."
This is a mysterious term that nobody has come up with
any clarity on.

A miracle flood! Water that appears mysteriously, kills everything, disappears mysteriously, and not only cleans up after itself, it re-arranges sediments and debris in a manner that carefully and faultlessly duplicates what we might expect from billions of years of weathering and plate tectonics, etc.

And it needs to be true for your beliefs to be true.

All you need now is a reason for others to consider it true. Got anything?

 

[Euler]

When you pray for others, the results can be very dramatic...for you.
God does not appreciate being tested though, so all tests are non-conclusive.
If you are looking to see how much man can influence God, the results will
always be zero. That's all we need is the Pope directing God what to do.

Oh boy.

Let me get this straight. If we try to observe whether or not prayer works, God doesn't like it, so he deliberately makes sure that the prayer fails?

So, as others have been saying, there is no noticeable difference obtained by praying to a god or not praying to a god, because if you try to 'notice' it, it won't work!

 

[JacksBratt]

Originally Posted by Mr Strawberry

And who is doing the forgiving? Who is god trying to impress enough with his noble sacrifice to allow the sinners to be forgiven?
​

I guess it's pretty much a shut door event, that courtesy of the NT we get to peek at. However it's regarded as one of the great mysteries of the Christian sacred texts. It's generally something that is discussed in quieter chambers.

I am really surprised at your answer, lewis. I would have figured you would have been able to help Mr. Strawberry out here.

Anyway, who is doing the forgiving?

That would be God. It's like this.....

I die, I go to be judged, Satan points to me and says to God "here is one of your filthy disgusting humans, they did X and Y and Z and all the rest of the alphabet. Whatcha gunna do to him?"

You see, Satan is our accuser... don't miss that simple fact.

Then, God will say, "Satan, you are right, he must be sent to eternal punishment".

Then Christ will step forward and say "not so fast, I bled and died on a cross and payed the price for this human, they believed and accepted me as their savior, I paid their debt".

Then God will say "this human is pardoned, they can enter into eternal life".

The forgiving is done because, as another poster said here, sin cannot exist in the presence of God. So, if we are sinners and not forgiven by God,without our sins paid for with Christs death and resurrection, then we cannot exist with God.

Hope this helps.

 

[JacksBratt]

So your god is non-interventionist and praying won't change a thing. Yes?

Why do you always take everything to the extreme?

You take a grand problem, a global problem and I say God won't come down tomorrow and fix it. Then you twist that into "Prayer doesn't work"

The two are totally different.

God cannot save the whole world from itself. Man has free will.

Now, if every human on the planet suddenly believed. We would have a revival. Greed would disappear, the people like Oprah and Bill gates would give their billions of dollars to free the people from it.

I once heard a financial guru speak. They believe that if all the money in the world was put in a bowl and every human lined up for an equal share. Everyone would get ten million dollars.

Of course this would never work as then nobody would have a reason to work.....

God answers prayers of those who ask and if it is part of His will.

IF mankind wants to fix world poverty, man has to do it, with the help of prayer.

It's taken centuries to get here, it won't be fixed anytime soon.