Evolution is proven false!

[SkyWriting]

I suspect Loudmouth is pulling your leg, as he's among those who don't have much regard for the Bible or the needed 'Fear of the Lord'

It can also be considered "Respect for your Father" in human terms.
And many children have the same problem with parents.

 

[SkyWriting]

Jesus certainly expected to have a celebratory drink of wine, in the Kingdom -- and there is going to be the marriage supper of the Lamb. Obviously, those who follow the example of mockers (Psalm 1) will be eating hot spicy dishes. Though as Lewis rightly says, that's exactly what some folks want.

I'm not familiar with your source of information.

 

[SkyWriting]

That makes zero sense.

OK. Pick a descriptor for Satan. Let's pick "The Destroyer.

So.

Satan destroys himself. End of story.
Satan gets cancer and dies. End of story.
Satan lies to himself and becomes confused. end of story

These illustrate that Evil cannot exist in pure form.
Pure evil just dies on it's own.

 

[Loudmouth]

OK. Pick a descriptor for Satan. Let's pick "The Destroyer.

So.

Satan destroys himself. End of story.
Satan gets cancer and dies. End of story.
Satan lies to himself and becomes confused. end of story

Satan causes Eve to sin. Continuation of story.

 

[Loudmouth]

I suspect Loudmouth is pulling your leg, as he's among those who don't have much regard for the Bible or the needed 'Fear of the Lord'

You have to be afraid in order to accept the stories as true?

 

[Loudmouth]

The story doesn't read that way. Go read.

Then how does it read?

 

[SkyWriting]

Satan causes Eve to sin. Continuation of story.

Now your getting it! Satan can only corrupt good things that have been Created. He cannot survive without something good to distort. He is not a creative individual. Corruption is everywhere similar to all fish are born wet. But it is a tiny fraction of Creation.

 

[Phred]

First, you're misusing the Second Law of Thermodynamics. Completely. You have to first define the system that you're talking about. Be it an engine, an environment, a planet, a solar system or the universe. Then and ONLY THEN can you start to discuss whether or not the Second Law applies in the manner you're trying to use it.

Second, nobody, anywhere, with half a brain ever said the universe came from nothing. The universe came from a singularity. When it expanded that was the "Big Bang." Where the singularity came from or how it got there we DO. NOT. KNOW. That is not to say that, "Since we don't know that must mean, goddidit." That means, we do not know. There could have been a, "big crunch" previously from a universe just like ours that expanded then contracted back into a singularity and then expanded again. We do not know. What we do know is remarkable. We know the state of the universe to within an instant of that expansion starting. And, since time began when that expansion began you can't really ask, "what came before the Big Bang?" since there was no "before".

Third, it doesn't matter what caused the expansion. Oh, we're all certainly curious. But it doesn't matter what started it. It happened. So you can speculate all you want. You can try to say that it must have a cause. You don't know that, but ok... claim it must have a cause. There's not a single, solitary shred of evidence that this cause was anything or nothing at all. But you want to say that because of your insistence that there must be a cause that this cause must be a deity. And that deity must be your god. And that's what you call evidence? If I find a broken lamp I must surmise that someone or something broke it. Isn't this the causal type of chain that you're using upon the Big Bang? And when I can't find anyone else at home and I have no pets ... do I immediately jump to assume that it's God? Or Harvey the invisible rabbit? No. I don't. I might guess that the lamp fell because of a slight earthquake or a hundred other natural reasons. I don't use the fallen lamp to claim that God exists because there's simply no other way it could have fallen over.

Fourth, this fascination with the concept of "the fall." I'd like just one person to explain, in detail, how a woman eating a magical fruit from a magical tree because she was told not to somehow causes Venus to become 900 degrees. Venus is, as it is, because of the conditions of it's clouds, the sun and who knows what else. It's not about mankind.

I understand that you may believe what you believe. But please... stop with the insistence that what you believe is scientific. If one part of it is a miracle that defies scientific explanation then likely it all is. Just accept that what you are espousing isn't going to fit into a scientific mold. You're not going to find evidence for it. You can't prove it. That's why it's called, "faith."

 

[Loudmouth]

Now your getting it! Satan can only corrupt good things that have been Created.

Why can God's creations be corrupted? Why does God let it happen? Is God so powerless that he can't stop it?

 

[SkyWriting]

Originally Posted by Loudmouth View Post
It's as if he put a 4 year old in a room with a big, huge cookie jar full of cookies in the middle of the floor. He tells the 4 year old not to eat any of the cookies. God also creates the room with a 12 year old who wants to see the kid trip up. God walks away. The 12 year old tells the 4 year old that it really isn't that big of a deal to eat a few of the cookies. What do you think happens next? I think everyone knows what happens next . . . and yet God was surprised. Go figure.

Then how does it read?

He fashions a man out of dust and forms a woman out of the man’s rib. God places the two people, Adam and Eve, in the idyllic garden of Eden, encouraging them to procreate and to enjoy the created world fully, but forbidding them to eat from one of the trees, the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. In the garden, Eve encounters a crafty serpent who convinces her to eat the tree’s "forbidden fruit", assuring her that she will not die just from eating fruit from one tree. Eve shares the fruit with Adam, and the two are immediately filled with shame and remorse, feelings they had not ever experienced while living in harmony with their Creator. While walking in the Garden, God confronts their disobedience and asks them to confess aloud what they have done. After cursing the serpent for his role in the corruption, he explains what the outcome is for choosing to not remain in fellowship with their Creator God and enjoying an eternal life in the Garden. Instead of a life of ease and plenty and harmony, Eve, he says, instead of having God directly create other eternal people for them to fellowship with, instead will be cursed to suffer painful childbirth and must submit to her husband’s authority because she is too easy to influence. Adam is cursed to toil and work the ground for food. The two are subsequently banished from Eden.
http://biblehub.com/genesis/3.htm

 

[Loudmouth]

He fashions a man out of dust and forms a woman out of the man’s rib. God places the two people, Adam and Eve, in the idyllic garden of Eden, encouraging them to procreate and to enjoy the created world fully, but forbidding them to eat from one of the trees, the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. In the garden, Eve encounters a crafty serpent who convinces her to eat the tree’s "forbidden fruit", assuring her that she will not die just from eating fruit from one tree. Eve shares the fruit with Adam, and the two are immediately filled with shame and remorse, feelings they had not ever experienced while living in harmony with their Creator. While walking in the Garden, God confronts their disobedience and asks them to confess aloud what they have done. After cursing the serpent for his role in the corruption, he explains what the outcome is for choosing to not remain in fellowship with their Creator God and enjoying an eternal life in the Garden. Instead of a life of ease and plenty and harmony, Eve, he says, instead of having God directly create other eternal people for them to fellowship with, instead will be cursed to suffer painful childbirth and must submit to her husband’s authority because she is too easy to influence. Adam is cursed to toil and work the ground for food. The two are subsequently banished from Eden.
Genesis 3 Parallel Chapters

It reads almost exactly like my cookie example. Replace "forbidden tree" with "forbidden cookie jar" and the stories are the same.

 

[SkyWriting]

Why can God's creations be corrupted? Why does God let it happen? Is God so powerless that he can't stop it?

He does not want to. He had always planned for man to have a choice.
A good companion is one that chooses to be with you voluntarily.

He already had created a host of Angels to serve Him.
That situation was not how He wanted his relationship with man to be.

 

[Loudmouth]

He does not want to. He had always planned for man to have a choice.
A good companion is one that chooses to be with you voluntarily.

A good companion is not one who does not understand the difference between right and wrong, and is then condemned to death by doing wrong.

He already had created a host of Angels to serve Him.
That situation was not how He wanted his relationship with man to be.

Then why were there angels?

 

[TLK Valentine]

Then why were there angels?

To spend all of eternity telling God how great and wonderful He was, only to be eventually replaced by mankind, whom they would tell how great and wonderful God was.

Makes you wonder why only a third of them rebelled?

 

[SkyWriting]

First, you're misusing the Second Law of Thermodynamics. Completely. You have to first define the system that you're talking about. Be it an engine, an environment, a planet, a solar system or the universe. Then and ONLY THEN can you start to discuss whether or not the Second Law applies in the manner you're trying to use it.

I always refer to the entire cosmos as the system.

Second, nobody, anywhere, with half a brain ever said the universe came from nothing.

"M-theory posits that multiple universes are created out of nothing, Hawking explained, with many possible histories and many possible states of existence. In only a few of these states would life be possible, and in fewer still could something like humanity exist. Hawking mentioned that he felt fortunate to be living in this state of existence."
Big Bang Didn't Need God, Stephen Hawking Says | Origin of the Universe


The universe came from a singularity. When it expanded that was the "Big Bang." Where the singularity came from or how it got there we DO. NOT. KNOW. That is not to say that, "Since we don't know that must mean, goddidit." That means, we do not know. There could have been a, "big crunch" previously from a universe just like ours that expanded then contracted back into a singularity and then expanded again. We do not know. What we do know is remarkable. We know the state of the universe to within an instant of that expansion starting. And, since time began when that expansion began you can't really ask, "what came before the Big Bang?" since there was no "before".

Third, it doesn't matter what caused the expansion. Oh, we're all certainly curious. But it doesn't matter what started it.





It happened. So you can speculate all you want. You can try to say that it must have a cause. You don't know that, but ok... claim it must have a cause. There's not a single, solitary shred of evidence that this cause was anything or nothing at all. But you want to say that because of your insistence that there must be a cause that this cause must be a deity. And that deity must be your god. And that's what you call evidence? If I find a broken lamp I must surmise that someone or something broke it. Isn't this the causal type of chain that you're using upon the Big Bang? And when I can't find anyone else at home and I have no pets ... do I immediately jump to assume that it's God? Or Harvey the invisible rabbit? No. I don't. I might guess that the lamp fell because of a slight earthquake or a hundred other natural reasons. I don't use the fallen lamp to claim that God exists because there's simply no other way it could have fallen over.

Fourth, this fascination with the concept of "the fall." I'd like just one person to explain, in detail, how a woman eating a magical fruit from a magical tree because she was told not to somehow causes Venus to become 900 degrees. Venus is, as it is, because of the conditions of it's clouds, the sun and who knows what else. It's not about mankind.

I understand that you may believe what you believe. But please... stop with the insistence that what you believe is scientific. If one part of it is a miracle that defies scientific explanation then likely it all is. Just accept that what you are espousing isn't going to fit into a scientific mold. You're not going to find evidence for it. You can't prove it. That's why it's called, "faith."

I am not a creation scientist.

Science says that every effect must have a cause and the cause of our Cosmos must be slightly larger assuming some loss in conversion.

Our Atomic bomb converts about 3 grams of matter
into energy. So where did all this energy originally
come from that created our Cosmos?

Why is it so "ordered" instead of random and where does
intelligence come from? Our observations and the laws of
science all say that everything comes from something
even bigger. Given the size we see, that something
is pretty big and quite smart.


The laws of science insist on it.

 

[SkyWriting]

A good companion is not one who does not understand the difference between right and wrong, and is then condemned to death by doing wrong.

You can't hang out with eternal beings that are perfect.
You get bored with them. You need to die to enter the
Spirit realm. It's not a punishment. It's a gift.

 

[Davian]

...
Our Atomic bomb converts about 3 grams of matter
into energy. So where did all this energy originally
come from that created our Cosmos?
...

Based on astronomical observations, what is said to be the sum of energy contained within the cosmos? Citation, please.

 

[Loudmouth]

Science says that every effect must have a cause and the cause of our Cosmos must be slightly larger assuming some loss in conversion.

Where does it say that? You even quoted material that says the cosmos started from a singularity that was about the size of an atom. That seems pretty small to me.

Our Atomic bomb converts about 3 grams of matter
into energy. So where did all this energy originally
come from that created our Cosmos?

We don't know where the energy originally came from. That's why we have scientists doing the research.

Why is it so "ordered" instead of random and where does
intelligence come from?

Intelligence comes from our brains, and the laws of nature allow for local areas of order as long as the system as a whole loses order.

Our observations and the laws of
science all say that everything comes from something
even bigger.

Oak trees come from much smaller acorns. You are simply wrong on this one. Small white dwarfs produce massive supernovae, as another example.

Given the size we see, that something
is pretty big and quite smart.

How so?

The laws of science insist on it.

The problem is that you are inventing laws from whole cloth.

 

[Loudmouth]

You can't hang out with eternal beings that are perfect.

Tons of other religions through the ages completely disagree. They have man interacting with deities all of the time. Also, you again describe God as being rather powerless.

You get bored with them. You need to die to enter the
Spirit realm. It's not a punishment. It's a gift.

Hell is a gift?

 

[EternalDragon]

A good companion is not one who does not understand the difference between right and wrong, and is then condemned to death by doing wrong.

Then why were there angels?

Adam and Eve understood right and wrong or else they would not have
been given rules. You have changed God's word so you can point fingers
at it.

It was the knowledge of "good and evil". Functional and dysfunctional.

Genesis 2:9 And out of the ground made the Lord God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil.