Evolution/Creation on Trial

[Loudmouth]

The work I am referring to is Dr Dean Ornish's: Program for Reversing Heart Disease. This involves diet, exercise and stress control. The leading cause of death in America today is coronary heart disease.

Unless humans become immortal, there will always be a leading cause of death.

 

[joshua 1 9]

I am saying that we are much, much healthier with modern medicine than we were without.

Then all the more we should follow the advise of what you call modern medicine. Far to often doctors use medicine and surgery when they should prescribe diet exercise and stress control to keep people healthy. Although to be fair only 50% of the people follow the program for the first three months and only 25% are still following the program after a year.

 

[joshua 1 9]

Unless humans become immortal, there will always be a leading cause of death.

Yes but the knowledge is there for people to be healthy. They do not have to just exist and they do not have to depend on surgery and medicine to survive. Students do not have to depend on prescription pills to concentrate on their studies if they would eat right.

 

[pshun2404]

Why? The proper folded form is the lowest energy state, and thus the most stable

Then why would there be 1,000s of proteins that always refold the same? Why does the same backbone produce multiple variations (that all repeat)...

 

[joshua 1 9]

Science doesn't have motivations or agendas. People do.

Science has lots of motivations to get people to spend money on food that is destroying their health.

 

[joshua 1 9]

However, you know how we find out that these things are dangerous? Science and academia!

Yes you are correct. So we do not have an excuse. We can not say we did not know. More insurance company's are paying for programs that keep people healthy because they are a good investment and keeping people healthy saves them money.

 

[TLK Valentine]

Science has lots of motivations to get people to spend money on food that is destroying their health.

Such as?

 

[Loudmouth]

Science has lots of motivations to get people to spend money on food that is destroying their health.

Science is a method. It has no motivations. Perhaps you mean to say "corporations"?

 

[Loudmouth]

Then why would there be 1,000s of proteins that always refold the same? Why does the same backbone produce multiple variations (that all repeat)...

For the same reason that all chemical reactions and interactions have a variation of possible but limited outcomes.

Proteins fold the same in the majority of cases because they have the same amino acid sequence, same environmental pH and salinity, same temperature, and same chaperone proteins. It isn't a mystery as to what causes protein folding.

 

[Loudmouth]

Yes but the knowledge is there for people to be healthy.

Again, unless humans become immortal we will all become unhealthy at some point.

They do not have to just exist and they do not have to depend on surgery and medicine to survive. Students do not have to depend on prescription pills to concentrate on their studies if they would eat right.

If you don't die of other diseases, you will end up with cancer. It is inevitable. Due to a constant rate of somatic mutations, it is only a matter of time till you get the mutations necessary to have cancer. No amount of diet or exercise is going to change that.

 

[stevevw]

 

[stevevw]

I'm talking about your misconception regarding the supposed randomness of evolution.

So mutations are not random.

 

[Loudmouth]

So mutations are not random.

Selection is not random.

 

[Split Rock]

There is much talk of this on creationist websites, e.g., http://creation.com/search?q=is+nested+heirarchy+evidence+for+evolution and their accounts sound just as plausible to the lay person.

Which are what? In your own words, how do they explain the twin nested hierarchy? The ones I have heard are:

1. Common Designer. This explains nothing. Why would a designer give an aquatic mammal such as a whale a genetic sequence closer to a cow than to another aquatic mammal, like a seal?

2. Functionality. This sounds reasonable, that if two organisms have a similar lifestyle, they may be given a similar genetic sequence. However, in reality, this isn't the case. See the example above.

The truth is, only genetic descent produces a nested hierarchy, not an intelligent designer, who can mix and match traits and genetic sequences as he/she/it pleases.

 

[The Cadet]

There is much talk of this on creationist websites, e.g., http://creation.com/search?q=is+nested+heirarchy+evidence+for+evolution and their accounts sound just as plausible to the lay person.

Have you ever considered that the problem may, in fact, be the bit I emphasized above?

 

[joshua 1 9]

Unless humans become immortal, there will always be a leading cause of death.

The bible says the day is coming when people will live to be 100. That day is not far off. People already are living to be 80.

 

[Loudmouth]

The bible says the day is coming when people will live to be 100. That day is not far off. People already are living to be 80.

100 years old is not immortal.

 

[joshua 1 9]

If you don't die of other diseases, you will end up with cancer. It is inevitable. Due to a constant rate of somatic mutations, it is only a matter of time till you get the mutations necessary to have cancer. No amount of diet or exercise is going to change that.

The program deals with heart disease. It's just the people working on cancer believe the program can work on that disease also.

 

[Loudmouth]

The program deals with heart disease. It's just the people working on cancer believe the program can work on that disease also.

They "believe". I would think that many snake oil salesmen "believe" that their product cures diseases as well.

 

[joshua 1 9]

100 years old is not immortal.

I have no scientific evidence right now for immortal. Other than I believe you can cremate the body and still have all the DNA information stored in the atoms in the ashes.