Evolution as a theory of creation is a JOKE

[tanzanos]

God does not fools us, we fool ourselves, because we do not yet understand the science involved.

I tried to find the name of the program, but their TV schedule was incomplete - meaning, may be local satelite companies air what they want in those times based on what has proven statistically popular, or they are lazy. In either case, it was scientist saying we do not know the age of the universe, not me.

Oh, we are becoming more intelligent... we are continuously learning more... we are continuously gaining a better understanding, but God's work is amazingly complexed, for we still do not even understand the human body and how it functions. For we have mapped the human body, disassembled and thoroughly analyzed it, and yet, there is so much we do not know or even understand.

I challenge you to prove to me that evolution is a joke. If you can do that without just saying Goddidit then I will publicly declare that you are right. But first you have to read the theory of evolution because I seriously think you are refering to something else; perhaps you meant Creationism is a joke?

 

[adimus]

God does not fools us, we fool ourselves, because we do not yet understand the science involved.

I tried to find the name of the program, but their TV schedule was incomplete - meaning, may be local satelite companies air what they want in those times based on what has proven statistically popular, or they are lazy. In either case, it was scientist saying we do not know the age of the universe, not me.

Oh, we are becoming more intelligent... we are continuously learning more... we are continuously gaining a better understanding, but God's work is amazingly complexed, for we still do not even understand the human body and how it functions. For we have mapped the human body, disassembled and thoroughly analyzed it, and yet, there is so much we do not know or even understand.

There is plenty of evidence to indicate that the universe as we know it is 13.5 and 14 billion years old. People were not trying to trump up a figure. All you have to do is read all about how they come up with those figures.

Just because we do not completely understand how something works does not mean that we can not understand a whole lot about it with a fairly strong degree of certainty.

 

[adimus]

Hi adimus

You don't know me -- I was hanging around here for a while but haven't been back for several months. Basically I got a bit tired of the same old fallacies, AV's puerile sophistry, drive-by PRATTs, etc etc, and I couldn't really afford to waste the time. But someone [you know who you are, and I shake my fist at you! ] PMed me and that prompted me to pop over and see what was going on. Eh, same old nonsense. OK, well, I guess I'll just close this tab and go do something pro.duc...t.... And that was when I read your post.

My heart was simultaneously gladdened and saddened (it's an odd feeling, I'll tell ya!). I was raised a creationist. Suffice it to say: I changed. It gives me hope to hear stories of others who have the courage to change their views based on good ol' fashioned logic, reason, and evidence. (And it sounds like you were more entrenched in your beliefs than I ever was, so I'm very impressed that you could be that open-minded and courageous.) But it also saddens me that you feel you have to be "in the closet" about this. I understand, certainly, and I'm not saying you shouldn't be -- it's just so sad that that has to be the case. Feel the Christian love, huh?

Anyway, I just thought you should be heartily commended for what you've done. (I'm surprised that I'm the first to say all this, actually.) Take care! And have fun pulling the rug from under AV's uberliteral feet, but don't let him drag you down to his level -- it isn't worth the effort.

I really appreciate all that. I am slowly trying to bring my wife to the point where I will share my new views with her- if that day ever comes. I will let y'all know if that happens.

A few others have encouraged me too. But as expected, most weren't as happy.

It is weird when I hear some of my passionate Christian siblings say something ridiculing or attacking evolution now. I have to wisely refrain from agreement and yet not give away my position either. I can tell when someone is not open to change, as most people aren't.

I feel almost like a Jew who believes in Jesus but lives in an Orthodox community. It is a real uncomfortable predicament to walk the line.

 

[MoonLancer]

well good luck to you anyway. you and i are very different I think, and I cant remember ever really exchanging kind words or for that matter ever getting into arguments, but i commend you setting aside what you have always known, and seeing with eyes unclouded.

its a very hard and honorable thing to do. and i commend you. The truth is never easy to reconcile.

 

[adimus]

Where does everyone get those cartoony avatars?

 

[MoonLancer]

Where does everyone get those cartoony avatars?

basically you post a lot of posts then you can buy paper doll like things someplace in the forums.

try

user cp> edit avatar>living avatar>Purchase Item>cf dollies> ect...

 

[CraigBaugher]

We keep getting hung up on time... how old is the average diamond? Millions of years, right? yet, Man-made diamonds that fool all testing take about 3-days - some are flawless and some contain the same natural flaws of an actual diamond. So again, I say to you, if we can produce diamonds that appear to take millions of years, yet only take 3-days, cannot God, maker of all that is seen and unseen do the same? YES HE CAN! YES HE DID!

God created all the animals, insects, reptiles, fish, fowl, plants all at about the same time, and science shows an sudden explosion of life with a sudden rise in oxygen... Hmmmm, if we can get past this timing issue, I think we may be seeing eye to eye.

 

[LifeToTheFullest!]

You keep throwing this diamond nonsense around.

Do you have an actual (non-creationism) source for your claim?

BTW, when you use old material to create a new diamond, guess what, it's going to date as old.

 

[thaumaturgy]

We keep getting hung up on time... how old is the average diamond? Millions of years, right? yet, Man-made diamonds that fool all testing take about 3-days

Why would a man-made diamond "date" older than it actually is?

What means are you talking about here?

Various radioisotopes are used to date diamonds. How does that cause an issue for dating a modern synthetic diamond vs a natural diamond?

 

[Split Rock]

We keep getting hung up on time... how old is the average diamond? Millions of years, right? yet, Man-made diamonds that fool all testing take about 3-days - some are flawless and some contain the same natural flaws of an actual diamond. So again, I say to you, if we can produce diamonds that appear to take millions of years, yet only take 3-days, cannot God, maker of all that is seen and unseen do the same? YES HE CAN! YES HE DID!

Of course your god could, but did he? Or did he use the natural processes he created for the task?

God created all the animals, insects, reptiles, fish, fowl, plants all at about the same time, and science shows an sudden explosion of life with a sudden rise in oxygen... Hmmmm, if we can get past this timing issue, I think we may be seeing eye to eye.

That is not what the fossil record shows us. It shows us insects and fish came before reptiles and fowl. The rise in oxygen was the result of widespread photosynthesis, and was not "sudden." We might see eye to eye if you can accept the fossil record for what it is, and stop using the Bible as a science book.

 

[tanzanos]

We keep getting hung up on time... how old is the average diamond? Millions of years, right? yet, Man-made diamonds that fool all testing take about 3-days -

It does not take months for a tomato plant to bear fruit from the seedling stage. Through the use of hormones we can do it in weeks. This proves that anyone who says tomatoes take time to grow is a fool!

All hail Cartoon Physics

 

[truth above all else]

It does not take months for a tomato plant to bear fruit from the seedling stage. Through the use of hormones we can do it in weeks. This proves that anyone who says tomatoes take time to grow is a fool!

All hail Cartoon Physics

indeed, only a fool would feed his child foodstuffs laced with synthetic hormones. Beware of Greeks bearing misinformation

 

[LightHorseman]

indeed, only a fool would feed his child foodstuffs laced with synthetic hormones. Beware of Greeks bearing misinformation

*LMCO* Good luck finding any foodstuff that isn't inherently "artificial."

If you believe that the average "organic produce" is any more "natural" than diet coca-cola, I have some "chemical free water" to sell you, only $5 a litre!

 

[tanzanos]

indeed, only a fool would feed his child foodstuffs laced with synthetic hormones. Beware of Greeks bearing misinformation

Listen; Natural causes can take time! It takes thousands of years for a river to carve a canyon. We on the other hand can do it in a fraction of the time. Don't take my word for it since you think Greeks bear misinformation; just ask the global scientific community!

 

[BananaSlug]

We keep getting hung up on time... how old is the average diamond? Millions of years, right? yet, Man-made diamonds that fool all testing take about 3-days - some are flawless and some contain the same natural flaws of an actual diamond. So again, I say to you, if we can produce diamonds that appear to take millions of years, yet only take 3-days, cannot God, maker of all that is seen and unseen do the same? YES HE CAN! YES HE DID!

God created all the animals, insects, reptiles, fish, fowl, plants all at about the same time, and science shows an sudden explosion of life with a sudden rise in oxygen... Hmmmm, if we can get past this timing issue, I think we may be seeing eye to eye.

Man-made diamonds are real diamonds. Unlike diamond simulants such as cubic zirconia, synthetic diamonds have the exact same chemical composition and properties as naturally occurring diamonds. Diamond, both synthetic and natural, is pure crystalline carbon; contains inclusions within its crystalline structure; is the hardest material known to man; and has the highest thermal conductivity at room temperature and the lowest thermal expansion of any substance known to man. Even the Gemological Institute of America (GIA), which grades and certifies diamonds, acknowledges that synthetic diamonds are, in fact, real. So, what is the difference between man-made diamonds and naturally occurring diamonds?


The difference is that man-made diamonds are grown in a laboratory, via either chemical vapor deposition (CVD) or lab-produced high pressure and high temperature (HPHT), over a period of days; whereas naturally occurring diamonds are forged by heat and pressure from the earth's mantle over a period of millions, or even billions, of years.
That was the obvious answer, and it does not imply any real differences between synthetic and natural diamonds. Practically speaking, there are a number of differences, but some are literal, while others are perceived. The differences include:
Cost: "Apollo Diamond in Boston, Massachusetts manufactures CVD diamonds. "Gemesis Corporation in Sarasota, Florida manufactures HPHT diamonds. The cost of synthetic diamonds ranges from twenty percent to ninety percent of the cost of natural diamonds with the same GIA-certifiable characteristics.
Luxury: Although GIA acknowledges the identical compositions and properties of synthetic and natural diamonds, sophisticated laboratory equipment is capable of distinguishing between the two. GIA, by "standard practice, laser inscribes "LABORATORY GROWN" on the girdle of a manufactured diamond it receives for grading. Because they are not rare like naturally occurring diamonds, and because they cost less, synthetic diamonds have a lesser market value, and therefore, are less luxurious. However, some controversy exists over the real versus perceived "rarity" of natural diamonds, because of the monopoly and market control exhibited by "DeBeers Diamond Trading Company.
Size and color limitations: The manufacturing process occurs in the presence of nitrogen, which results in a yellow-tinted diamond. The process can be conducted in the absence of nitrogen, resulting in a colorless diamond, but the lack of nitrogen slows the crystal growth. Currently, colorless diamonds can only be manufactured up to a half of a carat, while yellow diamonds can be produced up to three carats.
Fluorescence: Laboratory-grown diamonds fluoresce orange-pink under ultra short-wave UV emissions. This property is the basis for the Diamond Trading Company DiamondView, which is laboratory equipment, manufactured by DeBeers, capable of discerning between natural and synthetic diamonds.
Spectroscopy: Manufactured diamonds exhibit different low-temperature photoluminescence spectroscopy signatures under specific conditions than naturally occurring diamonds. This is another laboratory test used to distinguish between synthetic and natural diamonds.
Man-made diamonds differ from naturally occurring diamonds in a number of ways; some are perceived, and some real. However, the chemical composition and properties are identical, and only sophisticated laboratory equipment can distinguish between the two.

In other words, the diamond argument fails...

 

[CraigBaugher]

Ok, you say God does not exist... But we have numerous miracles, witnessed by both the faithful and the non-believing scientific community. I know of one - a local woman with brain cancer. Medical Science did all that they could, but the cancer was just too fast growing, and nothing was slowing it down. With all options exhausted, doctors released her to go home to die. The woman, took this time to say goodbye to her family, and hug her children. She was ready, and she prayed for the Father to come take her home. But instead of dying, she saw this light and heard a voice say, "It's your time... Now get up, you're healed, and go enjoy your family." When she awoke, her cancer was 100% gone. It did not slowly shrink away, it was gone. The medical community could not explain it, and simply told the TV Reporters, "It is a true miracle, for there are no explanations for it."

Now, I have a freind, who lost his faith when his 13-year-old daughter was kidnapped, raped repeatly, and then stabbed over 150 times. So brutal was her death, that she was unrecognizable. "How could there be a God, and he let something like this happen to my baby!" It took 15-years and the suicide death of another of one of his teenage children, for him to regain his faith, as he says, "The Lord craddled him."

Can I physical prove God exists... No... But neither can you prove he doesn't exist. I can prove God exist in numerous verifiable medical miracles. Miracles that have left Medical Science shaking their heads.

 

[MoonLancer]

Ok, you say God does not exist... But we have numerous miracles, witnessed by both the faithful and the non-believing scientific community. I know of one - a local woman with brain cancer. Medical Science did all that they could, but the cancer was just too fast growing, and nothing was slowing it down. With all options exhausted, doctors released her to go home to die. The woman, took this time to say goodbye to her family, and hug her children. She was ready, and she prayed for the Father to come take her home. But instead of dying, she saw this light and heard a voice say, "It's your time... Now get up, you're healed, and go enjoy your family." When she awoke, her cancer was 100% gone. It did not slowly shrink away, it was gone. The medical community could not explain it, and simply told the TV Reporters, "It is a true miracle, for there are no explanations for it."

i liked that part where you left out her name.

Now, I have a freind, who lost his faith when his 13-year-old daughter was kidnapped, raped repeatly, and then stabbed over 150 times. So brutal was her death, that she was unrecognizable. "How could there be a God, and he let something like this happen to my baby!" It took 15-years and the suicide death of another of one of his teenage children, for him to regain his faith, as he says, "The Lord cradled him."

sounds like he cracked to me. that the world was too cruel to face, so he withdrew into a fantasy land where he could some day find is daughter again. It happens to the best of us. Again though, you forgot to include a name.


show me one case of a person regenerating a limb after its lost. Cancer goes into remission. This happens for christains and non christains alike. Someone being healed of cancer is not evidence of a god. and someone needed reassurance of life after dead is also NOT evidence for god.

The question you should ask yourself is why does god hate amputees?

 

[Nathan Poe]

Ok, you say God does not exist... But we have numerous miracles, witnessed by both the faithful and the non-believing scientific community.

And yet they're still unbelieving -- guess the "miracle" wasn't impressive enough.

I know of one - a local woman with brain cancer. Medical Science did all that they could, but the cancer was just too fast growing, and nothing was slowing it down. With all options exhausted, doctors released her to go home to die. The woman, took this time to say goodbye to her family, and hug her children. She was ready, and she prayed for the Father to come take her home. But instead of dying, she saw this light and heard a voice say, "It's your time... Now get up, you're healed, and go enjoy your family." When she awoke, her cancer was 100% gone. It did not slowly shrink away, it was gone. The medical community could not explain it, and simply told the TV Reporters, "It is a true miracle, for there are no explanations for it."

Got a link to this story, or did you hear it from the pulpit?

Now, I have a freind, who lost his faith when his 13-year-old daughter was kidnapped, raped repeatly, and then stabbed over 150 times. So brutal was her death, that she was unrecognizable. "How could there be a God, and he let something like this happen to my baby!" It took 15-years and the suicide death of another of one of his teenage children, for him to regain his faith, as he says, "The Lord craddled him."

Does he have any daughters still living?

Can I physical prove God exists... No... But neither can you prove he doesn't exist. I can prove God exist in numerous verifiable medical miracles. Miracles that have left Medical Science shaking their heads.

So, is it your contention that anything "Medical Science" doesn't have an answer for must be a miracle?

 

[tanzanos]

Ok, you say God does not exist... But we have numerous miracles, witnessed by both the faithful and the non-believing scientific community. I know of one - a local woman with brain cancer. Medical Science did all that they could, but the cancer was just too fast growing, and nothing was slowing it down. With all options exhausted, doctors released her to go home to die. The woman, took this time to say goodbye to her family, and hug her children. She was ready, and she prayed for the Father to come take her home. But instead of dying, she saw this light and heard a voice say, "It's your time... Now get up, you're healed, and go enjoy your family." When she awoke, her cancer was 100% gone. It did not slowly shrink away, it was gone. The medical community could not explain it, and simply told the TV Reporters, "It is a true miracle, for there are no explanations for it."

Now, I have a freind, who lost his faith when his 13-year-old daughter was kidnapped, raped repeatly, and then stabbed over 150 times. So brutal was her death, that she was unrecognizable. "How could there be a God, and he let something like this happen to my baby!" It took 15-years and the suicide death of another of one of his teenage children, for him to regain his faith, as he says, "The Lord craddled him."

Can I physical prove God exists... No... But neither can you prove he doesn't exist. I can prove God exist in numerous verifiable medical miracles. Miracles that have left Medical Science shaking their heads.

Nice God yours; he saves a handful while leaving myriads to a life of destitution, wars, genocides, disease, and untold misery. And his followers have the gall to blame the devil (God's very own creation and right hand man before he fired him).

Life has a way to survive with or without God(s). Patients who experience receding cancer growths; do so due to many variables; and amongst them could be psychological. God had nothing to do with it.

 

[AVET]

Nice God yours; he saves a handful while leaving myriads to a life of destitution, wars, genocides, disease, and untold misery.

You left a few out ---

...and others were tortured, not accepting deliverance; that they might obtain a better resurrection:
36 And others had trial of cruel mockings and scourgings, yea, moreover of bonds and imprisonment:
37 They were stoned, they were sawn asunder, were tempted, were slain with the sword: they wandered about in sheepskins and goatskins; being destitute, afflicted, tormented;
38 ( Of whom the world was not worthy: ) they wandered in deserts, and in mountains, and in dens and caves of the earth.
39 And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise:
40 God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.