Evolution and the Human Soul

[Happy Hearts Club]

To discuss the ramifications of the human soul in the presence of evolutionary theory.



Truthfully, it is the human soul that engenders the human experience. This much is clear from scripture. The human mind and all of its various capacities would therefore be empty and vain without the existence of the soul, which is the very seat of human identity. So then, do we assume that an ape-man/woman devoid of all these aspects that engenders the human experience somehow gave birth to the "first" human? That this first human popped out with a soul, mind, and all the various components that define a modern human? That this "human" would "grow up" to look back at his "birth mother" in full, intimate awareness of himself and the world in which he finds himself, and sees her scurrying off after a critter while grunting and making other guttural sounds?

It matters not if you want to infer an evolutionary gradient as to how the faculties of the human mind arose. Without the presence of a soul, all of the major faculties are "turned off", they will not and simply cannot work. So in reality, TEs ignore the ramifications of their very own views, that an ape-man really did give birth to the first human, as any being without a soul or the various cognitive faculties present in mankind is just that --> an animal.



Evidently, the only way around this is to start redefining "this" or "that". I wonder what kind of legitimate theories can be produced to possibly explain this away, hmm?

 

[laconicstudent]

Evidently, the only way around this is to start redefining "this" or "that". I wonder what kind of legitimate theories can be produced to possibly explain this away, hmm?

Easy. You are using emotionalist descriptions and conflating a "soul" with "intelligence".

 

[Happy Hearts Club]

Easy. You are using emotionalist descriptions and conflating a "soul" with "intelligence".

The level of intelligence present within humans could not exist without the soul, which is my point. Like I said, the human experience is engendered by the human soul, without a soul any form of intelligence is severely limited in comparison. This is proven by both scripture and nature. The dividing line between animals and humans.

You do not reconcile this issue, you are simply nitpicking.

 

[laconicstudent]

The level of intelligence present within humans could not exist without the soul, which is my point.

Your unsubstantiated point, certainly.

Like I said, the human experience is engendered by the human soul, without a soul any form of intelligence is severely limited in comparison.

Your comparison is purely subjective.

This is proven by both scripture and nature. The dividing line between animals and humans.

1. Humans are animals

2. Please demonstrate with science, since intelligence is a scientific phenomena and even you say "and nature".

You do not reconcile this issue, you are simply nitpicking.

No, merely finding your objection to Evolution entertaining.

 

[Happy Hearts Club]

Your comparison is purely subjective.

Scripture is clear why humans differ from the rest of biological life, that they are made in the image of God --> the soul being the key element as to how the human experience is achievable as God defined it to be. You toss the most important element out and in exchange place evolutionary theory on a pedestal. Absolutely ridiculous.

1. Humans are animals

If humans are animals, then why has God intended us to be fashioned differently than animals? Humans are not animals, what a delectable piece of evolutionary propaganda. You should spend more time reading your Bible rather than science books, as it is exceptionally clear in not distinguishing us as animals.

2. Please demonstrate with science, since intelligence is a scientific phenomena and even you say "and nature".

The easiest way, observation. Fitting, seeing how science is based on observations. Look at the capacity of mankind versus the capacity of the rest of biological life, what do you see sir? God in His word reveals to us why there is a difference, but you give evolution precedence.

No, merely finding your objection to Evolution entertaining.

What really is entertaining is how you attempt to quantize human intelligence and the human soul into separate categories. You really are clueless, are you? I must say, you are an excellent bluffer, or maybe you just don't realize it.

 

[laconicstudent]

Scripture is clear why humans differ from the rest of biological life, that they are made in the image of God --> the soul being the key element as to how the human experience is achievable as God defined it to be. You toss the most important element out and in exchange place evolutionary theory on a pedestal. Absolutely ridiculous.

Actually, I'm not tossing out the most important element, the soul. I notice you didn't explain what that has to do with our cognitive capacity.

If humans are animals, then why has God intended us to be fashioned differently than animals?

We aren't.

Humans are not animals, what a delectable piece of evolutionary propaganda. You should spend more time reading your Bible rather than science books, as it is exceptionally clear in not distinguishing us as animals.

So we're plants, are we?

The easiest way, observation. Fitting, seeing how science is based on observations.

You have some case studies for me?

Look at the capacity of mankind versus the capacity of the rest of biological life, what do you see sir? God in His word reveals to us why there is a difference, but you give evolution precedence.

I see highly intelligent animals, such as Canis familiaris and Tursiops truncatus. How often do you read research on animal cognition?

What really is entertaining is how you attempt to quantize human intelligence and the human soul into separate categories.

They are different, unless you were expecting me to argue that some animals, such as corvids, canines and Odontocenti have a percentage of a soul.

You really are clueless, are you? I must say, you are an excellent bluffer, or maybe you just don't realize it.

You do realize that flaming isn't allowed on this forum, and even most of your Creationist fellows don't find flaming that impressive, right?

 

[Assyrian]

Eccles 3:21 Who knows whether the spirit of man goes upward and the spirit of the beast goes down into the earth?

 

[laconicstudent]

Eccles 3:21 Who knows whether the spirit of man goes upward and the spirit of the beast goes down into the earth?

Good find, I just wrote a paper summarizing research on Tursiops truncatus in non-verbal, referential communication. They preform at an extremely high level, it was an incredible study, the subject's rate of success was amazing, and they succeeded in the first trial in all experiments demonstrating spontaneous comprehension.

Pack, A. A., & Herman, L. M. (2004). Bottlenosed dolphins (Tursiops truncatus) comprehend both static and dynamic human gazing and pointing in an object-choice task. Journal of Comparative Psychology, 118, 160-171.


Science!

 

[Happy Hearts Club]

Actually, I'm not tossing out the most important element, the soul. I notice you didn't explain what that has to do with our cognitive capacity.

The human mind and intelligence is something completely unique in the whole of the natural world, this is something you cannot argue against. Scipture is clear in revealing why humans are so unique, being made in the image of God --> and it is clear the reason for this is because they are the sole creation of God in possession of a soul. You are denying the undeniable fact that without the human soul, the human experience as a whole could not exist (of which human intelligence is included, being completely unique in and of itself). The only reason you separate the two is so you can comfortably make room for evolutionary theory, naturally.

We aren't.

My oh my, well there it is. The poison that is the materialism of evolutionary theory. I guess I shouldn't even bother asking any of your opinions on Biblical issues, so you don't need to waste your time. By the way, you are denying scripture by this claim. I'd expect such a comment from a vehement atheist trying to jam evolutionary theory down my throat, not someone who understands the truth of the scriptures.

So we're plants, are we?

Irrelevant and pointless.

You have some case studies for me?

Case studies? The dividing line between the capacity of humans and the rest of the animal world is fine and clear, the fact that you are using that peripheral at your hands to communicate on these forums is evidence to that. Sweet Lord, wake up. The truth could be staring you plainly and square in the face but if it isn't in the form of a case study you dismiss it blindly, LOL

I see highly intelligent animals, such as Canis familiaris and Tursiops truncatus. How often do you read research on animal cognition?

I can see you trash the Bible when it comes to any contention between it and the precious theory of evolution. Attempting to place the intelligence of known biological entities on any sort of scale is pointless and irrelevant when we take into account humanity. Out of billions of years of apparent "evolution", humans are the sole product of high intelligence. Why? This is due to humanity being the sole, unique, and purposed creation of God Almighty (though all creation has a purpose, humanity carries a special one). The gap between human intelligence and intelligence found in any other species is massively wide, but evolutionary theory poisons your perspective in making you see otherwise. This is so blatantly clear.

They are different, unless you were expecting me to argue that some animals, such as corvids, canines and Odontocenti have a percentage of a soul.

Like I said previously, human intelligence is sole and unique, the only reason for its existence as scripture reveals it to be, is that it is a product of being made in the image of God. It is not a matter of finding "links" between the human soul and human intelligence, it is simply a fact of them being synonymous. If you think that the full extent of human intelligence can exist without the human soul, then you are terribly deluded and I'll leave you to your fanciful ideas void of any scriptural basis.

You do realize that flaming isn't allowed on this forum, and even most of your Creationist fellows don't find flaming that impressive, right?

Well firstly, I do not associate myself with creationists, so your attempt to dress me up as an unintelligent, incomprehensible individual wearing a "dunce" hat fails. Kent Hovind? No thanks. I don't believe God simply blinked everything into existence, I myself am a student of the sciences and I understand full well the reality of adaptive responses in nature.

And I don't mean to flame, I was just noting how you clearly do not know what you are talking about but so piously give off the impression that you do.

 

[Happy Hearts Club]

Eccles 3:21 Who knows whether the spirit of man goes upward and the spirit of the beast goes down into the earth?

Scripture reveals more than enough on the topic. There is no purpose in quoting this verse other than an attempt to feign some sort of ambiguity to the discussion. Mankind are eternal beings, the beasts of the earth are not.

 

[matthewgar]

While not quiet to our level, there are many animals that are pretty smart.

Ravens have a language containing hundreds of different vocal calls, and have child like problem solving capabilities, and can teach others of their own kind things, have been spotted figuring things out indirectly.

Apes are good at learning, with help of sign language or symbols can learn quiet a few different words among other things.

Dolphins are pretty smart too.

Again they don't quiet reach our level, but it's kinda hard to fully judge their mental capabilites without speach, though the point being that this is just a silly argument, we have illteligence because of our brains and ability to speak, not because of our souls. Prove how the soul effects the brain of body to make us smarter, how would you even compare a human without a soul to see if they were dumber? A clone perhaps?

 

[laconicstudent]

The human mind and intelligence is something completely unique in the whole of the natural world, this is something you cannot argue against.

LOL, yes it is. Intelligence is extremely common in higher animal species.


YouTube - Crow intelligence


Course, I wonder if you even recognize the significance of what is shown in that video. I pity those who cannot. The crow recognizes the uselessness of its wire, so it specifically retools it to work. Yay for intelligence.

Scipture is clear in revealing why humans are so unique, being made in the image of God --> and it is clear the reason for this is because they are the sole creation of God in possession of a soul.

Yes, I know.

You are denying the undeniable fact that without the human soul, the human experience as a whole could not exist (of which human intelligence is included,

Yes, I am denying that, because its ridiculous and you just invented that. None of your Creationist compatriots have ever been so silly as to deny intelligence in animals.

being completely unique in and of itself).

Except, hello? It demonstrably isn't unique.

The only reason you separate the two is so you can comfortably make room for evolutionary theory, naturally.

Well, yeah. I'm not delusional enough to ignore the obvious to maintain a belief in YEC.

My oh my, well there it is. The poison that is the materialism of evolutionary theory.

Evolution is a theory of biological science. It isn't inherently materialistic.

I guess I shouldn't even bother asking any of your opinions on Biblical issues, so you don't need to waste your time. By the way, you are denying scripture by this claim.

No, I'm not. Human embryology works the exact same way as other placental mammals.

I'd expect such a comment from a vehement atheist trying to jam evolutionary theory down my throat, not someone who understands the truth of the scriptures.

Good thing I'm not too concerned about your expectations, then.

Irrelevant and pointless.

You are the one claiming that we aren't part of Kingdom Animalia. So which taxonomic kingdom are we in? Plantae? Protista?

Case studies?

Yes, you mentioned "and nature". So you should have some field studies demonstrating the truth of your claim.

The dividing line between the capacity of humans and the rest of the animal world is fine and clear,

Not really.

the fact that you are using that peripheral at your hands to communicate on these forums is evidence to that.

That is only evidence that we have a higher level of intelligence. There isn't some magic dividing line. By your own argument, if intelligence and souls are linked, then other higher animals would be partially souled.

Sweet Lord, wake up. The truth could be staring you plainly and square in the face but if it isn't in the form of a case study you dismiss it blindly, LOL

Yes, well, when you are trying to debate animal cognition, you should be able to back it up with science. I'm sorry you are in over your head in this.

I can see you trash the Bible when it comes to any contention between it and the precious theory of evolution.

Silly ad hominem. This forum operates at a higher level than this, I'm afraid.

Attempting to place the intelligence of known biological entities on any sort of scale is pointless and irrelevant when we take into account humanity. Out of billions of years of apparent "evolution", humans are the sole product of high intelligence. Why? This is due to humanity being the sole, unique, and purposed creation of God Almighty (though all creation has a purpose, humanity carries a special one). The gap between human intelligence and intelligence found in any other species is massively wide, but evolutionary theory poisons your perspective in making you see otherwise. This is so blatantly clear.

We aren't the only highly intelligent animal species on this planet. Argument by assertion is ridiculous. Either quote the research literature to make a concise argument for why you disagree with the entire field of psychology in the matter of intelligent higher animals, or stop making unsubstantiated assertions ad naseum.

Like I said previously, human intelligence is sole and unique,

How do you know? You haven't defined your terms, or shown any scientific evidence. I don't even see how a lack of another apex species that equals us cognitively has anything to do with your argument.

the only reason for its existence as scripture reveals it to be, is that it is a product of being made in the image of God.

Either that, or having an extremely high cognitive capacity is an obviously enormous biological advantage.

It is not a matter of finding "links" between the human soul and human intelligence, it is simply a fact of them being synonymous.

So animals have souls too?

If you think that the full extent of human intelligence can exist without the human soul, then you are terribly deluded and I'll leave you to your fanciful ideas void of any scriptural basis.

Again, argument by bare assertion is terribly dull. If you aren't willing to accept any dissenting viewpoint for consideration, why are you here?

Well firstly, I do not associate myself with creationists, so your attempt to dress me up as an unintelligent, incomprehensible individual wearing a "dunce" hat fails.

I'm not doing any dressing. So if you feel like you are being made to look ridiculous, you have only yourself to blame.

Kent Hovind? No thanks. I don't believe God simply blinked everything into existence, I myself am a student of the sciences and I understand full well the reality of adaptive responses in nature.

I find that hard to believe, considering how completely unaware you seem to be of commonly known facts in animal psychology.

And I don't mean to flame, I was just noting how you clearly do not know what you are talking about but so piously give off the impression that you do.

Come now, we all know that you actually did. Surely you don't think this is new? My favorite was this one poster who called me a "priest of scientism" and a "monkey-priest" before getting banned.

 

[laconicstudent]

While not quiet to our level, there are many animals that are pretty smart.

Ravens have a language containing hundreds of different vocal calls, and have child like problem solving capabilities, and can teach others of their own kind things, have been spotted figuring things out indirectly.

Here is video footage from the relevant study, by the way.

YouTube - Crow intelligence

Dolphins are pretty smart too.

Quite so, did you know that dolphins can understand referential gazing and pointing, both dynamic (involving movement) and static (being presented with someone holding still, already gesturing) in an object-choice task, nearly flawlessly, and succeeding on the first task, indicating spontaneous comprehension rather than learning?

Quite a blow to the OP's argument.

 

[Assyrian]

Scripture reveals more than enough on the topic. There is no purpose in quoting this verse other than an attempt to feign some sort of ambiguity to the discussion. Mankind are eternal beings, the beasts of the earth are not.

I think Solomon was wiser and realised there is much we don't know. Eccles 3:21 Who knows whether the spirit of man goes upward and the spirit of the beast goes down into the earth? The bible does not tell us about the nature of our soul, let alone animals souls. Be careful when you read about the soul in the bible that you don't simply read your idea of what the soul is into the scripture references. You seem to think it is our soul that makes us eternal beings, but where does the bible say that?

1Tim 6:15 which he will display at the proper time--he who is the blessed and only Sovereign, the King of kings and Lord of lords, 16 who alone has immortality, who dwells in unapproachable light, whom no one has ever seen or can see. To him be honor and eternal dominion. Amen.

God alone is immortal, if we have eternal life it is a gift from Him, it is not something we intrinsically possess because we are a soul.

You seem to think:

humans have souls and animals don't,
​

(though the bible actually talks of both animal and human souls),

humans are eternal and animals aren't,
​

(though the bible is actually silent on the issue of animals in heaven )

so our eternal nature must be because we have a soul.
​

But this simply does not follow. Where does the bible say we are eternal beings because we have souls?

Last time I checked, salvation does not apply to the animal kingdom. This is an obvious truth the Bible speaks about, mankind are the sole possessors of souls, it is the very component that defines us as being made in the image of God --> being entities of an eternal nature.

Actually the bible talks of all of creation sharing in Christ's redemption.

Rom 8:19 For the creation waits with eager longing for the revealing of the sons of God.
20 For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of him who subjected it, in hope
21 that the creation itself will be set free from its bondage to decay and obtain the freedom of the glory of the children of God.
22 For we know that the whole creation has been groaning together in the pains of childbirth until now.
23 And not only the creation, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies.

That is not saying Jesus died for the sins of animals, then again animals don't sin either.

What you are doing here is simply blurring the lines and washing your hands clean from the topic. Whether you want to believe it or not, the human experience in its entirety does not exist without the human soul. Scripture reveals enough on the topic of what a soul must be. In the words of C.S. Lewis, "You do not have a soul, you are a soul...you have a body". It is the seat of human identity, they very core of a human, of which engenders the whole of the human experience,

You say scripture reveal enough on the topic, but then you quote C.S.Lewis rather than scripture. Now, I like Lewis, but if you are talking about what scripture reveals about the human soul, you should at least show us from scripture.

the Hebrew word "nephesh" reveals certain aspects of it. Most importantly, it is what defines us as being made in His image, beings of an eternal nature.

Humans are in possession of it
Every other species are not

You know where Genesis talks of God making Adam and him becoming a living soul?
Gen 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
The Hebrew used to describe Adam is nephesh chai. That is the same Hebrew phrase Genesis uses to describe animals.
Gen 1:24 And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind.
Gen 2:19 and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof.
The reason you think the bible says animals don't have souls is because translators translated the word for soul differently when it is used for animals. The hebrew uses the same word.

So again, if humans arose from primitive forms ("beasts"), then this is a very relevant and important issue.

We haven't just evolved from beasts, according to the bible we still are beasts. Getting back to Solomon,
Eccles 3:18 I said in my heart with regard to the children of man that God is testing them that they may see that they themselves are but beasts.

 

[juvenissun]

Easy. You are using emotionalist descriptions and conflating a "soul" with "intelligence".

How about the other way around? Intelligence is only "an" effect of soul (by the way, I would like to call it spirit, rather than soul).

 

[juvenissun]

Good find, I just wrote a paper summarizing research on Tursiops truncatus in non-verbal, referential communication. They preform at an extremely high level, it was an incredible study, the subject's rate of success was amazing, and they succeeded in the first trial in all experiments demonstrating spontaneous comprehension.

Pack, A. A., & Herman, L. M. (2004). Bottlenosed dolphins (Tursiops truncatus) comprehend both static and dynamic human gazing and pointing in an object-choice task. Journal of Comparative Psychology, 118, 160-171.


Science!

Is there a real advantage to live on land rather than in water? If dolphin is so smart, why didn't they try to evolve into a land animal?

This reminded me the killer whale. They rushed onto the shore to grab the seal at the risk of being strained on the shore. They are the very species which has an excellent reason to develop the front fins into legs or hands.

 

[Papias]

"Soul" and intelligence are separate - dolphins, dogs, computers, and so on all have intelligence, not souls. Conflating intelligence with soul is to say that some of those with downs syndrome (many of whom have less intelligence than chimpanzees) don't have souls. That's a terrible thing to say.

Scientist understand a lof of how the brain works, and gives intelligence. Please do not claim that there is some mystery to intelligence unless you have read the work on this, such as Steven Pinker's "How the Mind Works". Otherwise you are speaking out of ignorance, and making Christians look like ignoramuses.

The Catholic church's position is that at some point (Adam) in the evolution of ape to human, God divinely gave humans a soul. The whole question of the OP is a non issue that stems from the idea that mentally handicapped people somehow aren't human and don't have souls. I hope no one is out there saying that is is some unsolved problem - it's been solved for decades at least.

As Chrisitans, we can do better than that.

Papias

 

[Happy Hearts Club]

The whole question of the OP is a non issue that stems from the idea that mentally handicapped people somehow aren't human and don't have souls.
Papias

Actually no, you are redefining the point I was trying to make, this has nothing to do with handicapped individuals. The problem here is that you are equating humans with dolphins and computers, of course "intelligence" then becomes some relative term. I am simply arguing that the level of consciousness in humans that occurs naturally (which is a deeply intimate kind) could not exist without the soul, which is the seat of that human's identity.

 

[Happy Hearts Club]

I think Solomon was wiser and realised there is much we don't know. Eccles 3:21 Who knows whether the spirit of man goes upward and the spirit of the beast goes down into the earth? The bible does not tell us about the nature of our soul, let alone animals souls. Be careful when you read about the soul in the bible that you don't simply read your idea of what the soul is into the scripture references. You seem to think it is our soul that makes us eternal beings, but where does the bible say that?

1Tim 6:15 which he will display at the proper time--he who is the blessed and only Sovereign, the King of kings and Lord of lords, 16 who alone has immortality, who dwells in unapproachable light, whom no one has ever seen or can see. To him be honor and eternal dominion. Amen.

God alone is immortal, if we have eternal life it is a gift from Him, it is not something we intrinsically possess because we are a soul.

I'd have to say you are incorrect here. Immortality does not equate with eternal life nor does having eternal life equate with being "eternal" persay. God alone is "immortal" because He is the one and only being who by nature is -not- mortal, that is the extent of 1 Tim 6:15. Eternal life is simply the opposite of eternal damnation, it speaks not of the eternal nature of man. And like I already mentioned, humans are eternal beings. Whether they have eternal life or not is irrelevant, and they are by nature mortal --> hence of course they do not possess immortality. The soul of man encompasses his identity, and it is not in dispute that this identity even persists death and will carry over into eternity, hence the reason why I say humankind to be of an eternal nature. It has nothing to do with my personal opinion.

You seem to think:

humans have souls and animals don't,
​

(though the bible actually talks of both animal and human souls),

humans are eternal and animals aren't,
​

(though the bible is actually silent on the issue of animals in heaven )

so our eternal nature must be because we have a soul.
​

But this simply does not follow. Where does the bible say we are eternal beings because we have souls?

The Bible doesn't explicitly mention the reality of the trinity, but it is present nonetheless within its pages. The soul is what persists death and will be what carries over into eternity, I'd assume this to be understood as a Basic Biblical principle.

Actually the bible talks of all of creation sharing in Christ's redemption.

Rom 8:19 For the creation waits with eager longing for the revealing of the sons of God.
20 For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of him who subjected it, in hope
21 that the creation itself will be set free from its bondage to decay and obtain the freedom of the glory of the children of God.
22 For we know that the whole creation has been groaning together in the pains of childbirth until now.
23 And not only the creation, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies.

That is not saying Jesus died for the sins of animals, then again animals don't sin either.

You actually answer your previous question. Salvation proves the eternality of man. Only humans have the capacity to sin, and I'd say this is due to both the fact that they possess a soul and intelligence, both being of a completely unique kind. Salvation is relevant because it is a remedy for humanity in regards to their eternal disposition, salvation exists because mankind have souls which are eternal, and will not pass out of existence.

You say scripture reveal enough on the topic, but then you quote C.S.Lewis rather than scripture. Now, I like Lewis, but if you are talking about what scripture reveals about the human soul, you should at least show us from scripture.

The end of revelations affirms the eternity of all humans to say the least. Like I said perviously, sometimes critical issues in the Bible are never explicitly mentionned, it does not mean they are not there nor are they spoken of. Salvation does not apply to animals nor are they found at the Great White Throne judgment which precedes eternity. The soul truly is what distinguishes us apart from the animal kingdom, it is our "eternal identity" so to speak. Beasts of the earth are never mentioned in this context simply because it does not apply to them, meaning it is something they simply do not have.

You know where Genesis talks of God making Adam and him becoming a living soul?
Gen 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
The Hebrew used to describe Adam is nephesh chai. That is the same Hebrew phrase Genesis uses to describe animals.
Gen 1:24 And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind.
Gen 2:19 and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof.
The reason you think the bible says animals don't have souls is because translators translated the word for soul differently when it is used for animals. The hebrew uses the same word.

No, the reason why I think animals don't have souls is because the Bible makes it very clear. If animals had souls then salvation would be extended to them as well.

We haven't just evolved from beasts, according to the bible we still are beasts. Getting back to Solomon,
Eccles 3:18 I said in my heart with regard to the children of man that God is testing them that they may see that they themselves are but beasts.

It is clearly a theological saying --> I find it ironic that you read it as literal in order to bring your point across. Making use of a double standard here

 

[Happy Hearts Club]

LOL, yes it is. Intelligence is extremely common in higher animal species.

How about you learn to follow a discussion properly. I wasn't trying to debate intelligence being present in other species, I was speaking of the uniqueness of human intelligence, and regardless of what you want to try and argue it remains virtually unmatched.

Yes, I know.

Yes, I am denying that, because its ridiculous and you just invented that. None of your Creationist compatriots have ever been so silly as to deny intelligence in animals.

Utter fail. Again, I do not seem to understand how a seemingly intelligent person like yourself fails to simply follow my line of thought, it has nothing to do with denying levels of animal intelligence, which I am not.

Except, hello? It demonstrably isn't unique.

Denial. Human intelligence is demonstrably unique in its full extent. We manufacture cars, which are inventions of chemical, mechanical, and electrical engineering. We launch satellites and other vessels into space, we possess a mastery of medicine allowing us to not only save lives but prolong life itself, we can view galaxies thousands of light years away from earth, we can build planes that whisk us around the globe in under an hour, to name a few. Yes human intelligence is not unique to every other form of intelligence on earth, and you must be some sort of genius...? This is quite a phenomenon.

Well, yeah. I'm not delusional enough to ignore the obvious to maintain a belief in YEC.

Who says I believe in YEC?

Not really.

Yes really, I do not need any more of your void, materialistic opinions on this matter. It is just so incredibly astounding. Evolutionary theory literally "brainwashes" you to view "no" major differences between humans and the rest of biological life despite the fact that there are many, and it is blatant--> even more so to someone who knows and reads the scriptures.

Yes, well, when you are trying to debate animal cognition, you should be able to back it up with science. I'm sorry you are in over your head in this.

I am not trying to debate animal cognition, I am trying to bring to your attention the reality of the natural world, but I see your completely immersed and blinded by science so much that you cannot see this simple, obvious truth, what a waste of time.

Silly ad hominem. This forum operates at a higher level than this, I'm afraid.

Well forgive me for using the adjective "precious", it's kind of a stretch to label this as ad hominem.

We aren't the only highly intelligent animal species on this planet.

I am not arguing intelligence by some arbitrary scale as you do, I am arguing the obvious and clear uniqueness of human intelligence versus every other intelligence you'd be able to find in nature, and there is obvious evidence attesting to this unique intelligence all.over.the.world (and in space too).

How do you know? You haven't defined your terms, or shown any scientific evidence. I don't even see how a lack of another apex species that equals us cognitively has anything to do with your argument.

It has everything to do with the argument, you affirm the lack of any other species who match us --> coupled with the fact that the soul is unique to humans. I would say there is very much a link that is required between the two. It makes no sense that you could have one and somehow not have the other, as the soul is where the whole of human identity comes from. Which is my point, something you do not seem to want to contend with.

So animals have souls too?

You equate human intelligence with animal intelligence, despite the fact that one clearly transcends the other.

I'm not doing any dressing. So if you feel like you are being made to look ridiculous, you have only yourself to blame.

I was referring to you labeling me a creationist, which is a common tactic pure evolution goers love to label onto anyone and everyone who challenge their views, give it a rest.

I find that hard to believe, considering how completely unaware you seem to be of commonly known facts in animal psychology.

I know about the levels of intelligence present in the animal world, I have come across them before. That is not my point. You think studying animal psychology will somehow redefine reality? It is clear the existence of a distinction between humans and the rest of biological life in terms of over all intelligence and capacity. Please I do not need more evolutionary propaganda.

Come now, we all know that you actually did. Surely you don't think this is new? My favorite was this one poster who called me a "priest of scientism" and a "monkey-priest" before getting banned.

Feel free to put words in my mouth, I know exactly what my intentions were. I must say, I love the "monkey-priest" bit tho