EVIL WITHOUT REALIZATION

[th1bill]

28 Since these people refused even to think about God, he let their useless minds rule over them. That's why they do all sorts of indecent things. 29 They are evil, wicked, and greedy, as well as mean in every possible way. They want what others have, and they murder, argue, cheat, and are hard to get along with. They gossip, 30 say cruel things about others, and hate God. They are proud, conceited, and boastful, always thinking up new ways to do evil.

These people don't respect their parents. 31 They are stupid, unreliable, and don't have any love or pity for others. 32 They know God has said that anyone who acts this way deserves to die. But they keep on doing evil things, and they even encourage others to do them. (CEV)

There is not much that angers more than this prophecy from Romans, the first chapter. Folks absolutely refuse to believe they have been turned over to Reprobate Minds by Yahova. The sadest part is the Church Buildings, on any LORD's Day are full of these folks. They are in the correct place to hear the truth but it must go in one ear and out the other. They walk out of the Fellowship of Believers, a.k.a. the Church Yashua is returning for, and are not the least bit changed.

How in the world can I make such an assertion? Before 1/1/1990 I was clawing my way into Nashville in a Beer Joint, hoping the Houston Rodeo Association would give me the same deal they had made with Clint Black. When the offer arrived, Ruah, the Holy Spirit, had just brought this old man to his knees with the realization that Yashua had hung on that cross to purify me.

Am I worthy of Sainthood? Is anyone, save Yashua? Am I different? You had better believe I am, I haven´t had so much as a sip of 101-proof Wild Turkey since the week before the New Year, that year. And on top of that, I have read through the Scriptures numerous times as I taught classes of children, teenagers, and, Elder Men. Reading through the Scripture, for the purpose of seeking after Yashua, Yahova, and, Ruah changes your perspective on everything.

 

[MehGuy]

You make a very good point.

 

[Robban]

28 Since these people refused even to think about God, he let their useless minds rule over them. That's why they do all sorts of indecent things. 29 They are evil, wicked, and greedy, as well as mean in every possible way. They want what others have, and they murder, argue, cheat, and are hard to get along with. They gossip, 30 say cruel things about others, and hate God. They are proud, conceited, and boastful, always thinking up new ways to do evil.

These people don't respect their parents. 31 They are stupid, unreliable, and don't have any love or pity for others. 32 They know God has said that anyone who acts this way deserves to die. But they keep on doing evil things, and they even encourage others to do them. (CEV)

There is not much that angers more than this prophecy from Romans, the first chapter. Folks absolutely refuse to believe they have been turned over to Reprobate Minds by Yahova. The sadest part is the Church Buildings, on any LORD's Day are full of these folks. They are in the correct place to hear the truth but it must go in one ear and out the other. They walk out of the Fellowship of Believers, a.k.a. the Church Yashua is returning for, and are not the least bit changed.

How in the world can I make such an assertion? Before 1/1/1990 I was clawing my way into Nashville in a Beer Joint, hoping the Houston Rodeo Association would give me the same deal they had made with Clint Black. When the offer arrived, Ruah, the Holy Spirit, had just brought this old man to his knees with the realization that Yashua had hung on that cross to purify me.

Am I worthy of Sainthood? Is anyone, save Yashua? Am I different? You had better believe I am, I haven´t had so much as a sip of 101-proof Wild Turkey since the week before the New Year, that year. And on top of that, I have read through the Scriptures numerous times as I taught classes of children, teenagers, and, Elder Men. Reading through the Scripture, for the purpose of seeking after Yashua, Yahova, and, Ruah changes your perspective on everything.

It is as it is and not by chance.


The wicked are part of the picture, they are tools in the toolbox of the Satan.

Why?
To test.
A potter does not tap a piece of pottery that is cracked or has a flaw,
it would fall into pieces.

The Satan does not have unlimited power, only that which is allowed by the Almighty.

Who are the wicked?

Psalms 50:16-17

But to the wicked God said,

"What does it help you to discuss My Laws and bear My Convenant upon upon your lips?"

For you hate discipline, and throw My words behind you.

And in a prayer by David he prays,

"Arise, O Lord! Confront him, bring him to his knees,
rescue my soul from the wicked (who serve as) Your sword."

Psalms 17:13,
Maybe not in your version
.

 

[public hermit]

28 Since these people refused even to think about God, he let their useless minds rule over them. That's why they do all sorts of indecent things. 29 They are evil, wicked, and greedy, as well as mean in every possible way. They want what others have, and they murder, argue, cheat, and are hard to get along with. They gossip, 30 say cruel things about others, and hate God. They are proud, conceited, and boastful, always thinking up new ways to do evil.

These people don't respect their parents. 31 They are stupid, unreliable, and don't have any love or pity for others. 32 They know God has said that anyone who acts this way deserves to die. But they keep on doing evil things, and they even encourage others to do them. (CEV)

There is not much that angers more than this prophecy from Romans, the first chapter. Folks absolutely refuse to believe they have been turned over to Reprobate Minds by Yahova. The sadest part is the Church Buildings, on any LORD's Day are full of these folks. They are in the correct place to hear the truth but it must go in one ear and out the other. They walk out of the Fellowship of Believers, a.k.a. the Church Yashua is returning for, and are not the least bit changed.

How in the world can I make such an assertion? Before 1/1/1990 I was clawing my way into Nashville in a Beer Joint, hoping the Houston Rodeo Association would give me the same deal they had made with Clint Black. When the offer arrived, Ruah, the Holy Spirit, had just brought this old man to his knees with the realization that Yashua had hung on that cross to purify me.

Am I worthy of Sainthood? Is anyone, save Yashua? Am I different? You had better believe I am, I haven´t had so much as a sip of 101-proof Wild Turkey since the week before the New Year, that year. And on top of that, I have read through the Scriptures numerous times as I taught classes of children, teenagers, and, Elder Men. Reading through the Scripture, for the purpose of seeking after Yashua, Yahova, and, Ruah changes your perspective on everything.

Don't forget that after Paul finishes his diatribe in Romans 1 about all the horrible things "they" do, he begins in Romans 2 (there were no chapter divisions in his letter) to speak in the second person to you:

"Therefore you have no excuse, whoever you are, when you judge others; for in passing judgement on another you condemn yourself, because you, the judge, are doing the very same things..."

It's all too convenient to leave that part out, as if Paul's whole argument isn't headed to the statement that all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. What you quoted is not a prophecy, it's bait used to catch and reveal the condemnation of those who condemn others as if they are righteous.

 

[Soul_Tsunami]

I've created a new thread on Motives and I believe it would be a great way to dissect our own motives.

 

[th1bill]

But we must remember that all of the chapters and verses are man-made. This the best and the worst thing man has ever done to the Word of YHWH. This made it easy to find our place On the other hand the division that was never there has given rise to multitudes of False Teachers. We must remember that although YHWH used about 40 Pen-Men to transcribe the scriptures, they are authored by YHW and only YHWH and are one continuous message of Salvation from "In the beginning." found in Genesis through the very last Amen of Revelation 22.

In Matthew 7 we find, perhaps, the most misused verse in the Bible, verse 1. If written if the formula used today the first five verses form a single paragraph and verse 6 forms the second and prepares us for the rest of the message;
Matthew 7 “Judge not, that you be not judged. 2 For with the judgment you pronounce you will be judged, and with the measure you use it will be measured to you. 3 Why do you see the speck that is in your brother's eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? 4 Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when there is the log in your own eye? 5 You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother's eye.

6 “Do not give dogs what is holy, and do not throw your pearls before pigs, lest they trample them underfoot and turn to attack you.
In his letter to the church in Corinth, the apostle Paul tells us that believers will not only judge the world but also judge angels: “Or do you not know that the saints will judge the world ... Do you not know that we are to judge angels? How much more, then, matters pertaining to this life” (1 Corinthians 6:2-3).

 

[Soul_Tsunami]

Did you expect stone tablets

 

[Soul_Tsunami]

Suggesting that as Christians we are to remain silent and not help each other grow is contrary to what God teaches. Every one of us is at different levels of maturity.

“Jesus never taught to abstain from judgment. He warned against being a hypocrite.” When you see a brother or sister in Christ in sin, you need to call it out. “But before you call sin out in another, you better do some self-evaluation to see if there is any sin present in your life,”.

“I think that it is completely biblical to hold other Christians accountable for sin.”
Judging someone and holding someone accountable for sin are two different things. I think that we can fall
into a trap as Christians of thinking that people can’t hold us accountable or point out our sin because they are judging us, and because we are all imperfect then other people have no right to judge us,” I don't believe we're supposed to pronounce guilt and sentence on anyone for their sins because we are not the ultimate judge. “However, holding a fellow believer accountable for sin is a completely different thing,”
Look at Paul’s instructions in 1 Corinthians 5 where Paul instructs people to hold others inside the church accountable, but not those who are outside the church (nonbelievers).

“Scripture says that it is helpful when others offer accountability and correction for us,” If we really believe that we are all sinners – and that sin leads to pain, misery, guilt, shame, eternal destruction, etc. – then we have to love fellow believers enough to offer accountability to them in humility.” Galatians 1:6 says, “Brothers and sisters, if someone is caught in a sin, you who live by the Spirit should restore that person gently. But watch yourselves, or you also may be tempted.”

“It is letting us know that not only do we need to hold others accountable and go to the Lord to repent ourselves beforehand, but we also must be willing to help someone walk through a process of restoration after holding them accountable to that sin, and also continually go to the Lord during that process to make sure that we too aren’t tempted. Doing this allows us to empathize and sympathize with people and be a fellow combatant in the fight against sin.”

There are many places in scripture that are filled with this battle between accountability and judgmentalism.”
In Matthew 18, Jesus presents a model in which accountability is offered in layers:

1. First go to the person who has sinned against you and talk to that person privately.
2. If that does not work, you are to take with you another believer or two.
3. As a last resort, you are to bring the matter before the community of faith.

At various times in church history, church discipline has been carried out based on this model. In 1 Corinthians 5:6, Paul advocates banning an immoral person from the church.”

Scripture also warns in very strong terms against being judgmental and self-righteous. In Matthew 6, Jesus speaks harshly against those who point out small faults in others while ignoring their own faults.

Perhaps the fine line between accountability and judgmentalism boils down to two things: motive and manner, We’ve all known people who gloat over the sins and faults of others (manner) or who point out someone else’s failure to, by contrast, highlight their own righteousness (motive). These judgmental people are the ones whom Jesus criticized most strongly, and they are even today the people who do the greatest harm to the witness and mission of the church.

By contrast, the motive of Christian accountability is always to help the other person.
How many times have we heard where interventions, both corporate and private, have probably saved a person’s life?

He said our motive for holding others accountable for sin must be pure.

“The motive must be restoration — the other person’s good — and the manner is gentleness,” Galatians 6:1.

1 Peter 3:15-16 speaks of defending Christian principles, but doing so “with gentleness and reverence.”
Ephesians 4:15 admonishes us to “speak the truth in love,”

Perhaps love is the point where motive and manner come together. “If my motive is love – and therefore to help – and my manner is loving – and therefore gentle and kind – something good may well come from my actions. But if my motive and manner are anything else, I’d better tend to the beam in my eye before worrying about my neighbor’s speck."

 

[th1bill]

Suggesting that as Christians we are to remain silent and not help each other grow is contrary to what God teaches. Every one of us is at different levels of maturity.

“Jesus never taught to abstain from judgment. He warned against being a hypocrite.” When you see a brother or sister in Christ in sin, you need to call it out. “But before you call sin out in another, you better do some self-evaluation to see if there is any sin present in your life,”.

“I think that it is completely biblical to hold other Christians accountable for sin.”
Judging someone and holding someone accountable for sin are two different things. I think that we can fall
into a trap as Christians of thinking that people can’t hold us accountable or point out our sin because they are judging us, and because we are all imperfect then other people have no right to judge us,” I don't believe we're supposed to pronounce guilt and sentence on anyone for their sins because we are not the ultimate judge. “However, holding a fellow believer accountable for sin is a completely different thing,”
Look at Paul’s instructions in 1 Corinthians 5 where Paul instructs people to hold others inside the church accountable, but not those who are outside the church (nonbelievers).

“Scripture says that it is helpful when others offer accountability and correction for us,” If we really believe that we are all sinners – and that sin leads to pain, misery, guilt, shame, eternal destruction, etc. – then we have to love fellow believers enough to offer accountability to them in humility.” Galatians 1:6 says, “Brothers and sisters, if someone is caught in a sin, you who live by the Spirit should restore that person gently. But watch yourselves, or you also may be tempted.”

“It is letting us know that not only do we need to hold others accountable and go to the Lord to repent ourselves beforehand, but we also must be willing to help someone walk through a process of restoration after holding them accountable to that sin, and also continually go to the Lord during that process to make sure that we too aren’t tempted. Doing this allows us to empathize and sympathize with people and be a fellow combatant in the fight against sin.”

There are many places in scripture that are filled with this battle between accountability and judgmentalism.”
In Matthew 18, Jesus presents a model in which accountability is offered in layers:

1. First go to the person who has sinned against you and talk to that person privately.
2. If that does not work, you are to take with you another believer or two.
3. As a last resort, you are to bring the matter before the community of faith.

At various times in church history, church discipline has been carried out based on this model. In 1 Corinthians 5:6, Paul advocates banning an immoral person from the church.”

Scripture also warns in very strong terms against being judgmental and self-righteous. In Matthew 6, Jesus speaks harshly against those who point out small faults in others while ignoring their own faults.

Perhaps the fine line between accountability and judgmentalism boils down to two things: motive and manner, We’ve all known people who gloat over the sins and faults of others (manner) or who point out someone else’s failure to, by contrast, highlight their own righteousness (motive). These judgmental people are the ones whom Jesus criticized most strongly, and they are even today the people who do the greatest harm to the witness and mission of the church.

By contrast, the motive of Christian accountability is always to help the other person.
How many times have we heard where interventions, both corporate and private, have probably saved a person’s life?

He said our motive for holding others accountable for sin must be pure.

“The motive must be restoration — the other person’s good — and the manner is gentleness,” Galatians 6:1.

1 Peter 3:15-16 speaks of defending Christian principles, but doing so “with gentleness and reverence.”
Ephesians 4:15 admonishes us to “speak the truth in love,”

Perhaps love is the point where motive and manner come together. “If my motive is love – and therefore to help – and my manner is loving – and therefore gentle and kind – something good may well come from my actions. But if my motive and manner are anything else, I’d better tend to the beam in my eye before worrying about my neighbor’s speck."

Sorry, but Matthew 7 does not teach us not to judge but rather teaches us to get our lives in order and then judge Righteously.

 

[Soul_Tsunami]

Sorry, but Matthew 7 does not teach us not to judge but rather teaches us to get our lives in order and then judge Righteously.

I don't think you are disagreeing with anything I said. I don't think anyone of us is without a "Speck" in our eye. We can discern and not judge.

 

[th1bill]

Neighbor, with the current butchery of the English Language in these New Dictionaries that are firmly entrenched in the minds of under forty-year-olds it has become impossible to soften points and then impress upon them the truth of scripture. And your post here is such a valid example of why.

Truth? Discerning "is" judging.

 

[stevevw]

Don't forget that after Paul finishes his diatribe in Romans 1 about all the horrible things "they" do, he begins in Romans 2 (there were no chapter divisions in his letter) to speak in the second person to you:

"Therefore you have no excuse, whoever you are, when you judge others; for in passing judgement on another you condemn yourself, because you, the judge, are doing the very same things..."

It's all too convenient to leave that part out, as if Paul's whole argument isn't headed to the statement that all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. What you quoted is not a prophecy, it's bait used to catch and reveal the condemnation of those who condemn others as if they are righteous.

John 8:7 comes to mind.

 

[Soul_Tsunami]

Neighbor, with the current butchery of the English Language in these New Dictionaries that are firmly entrenched in the minds of under forty-year-olds it has become impossible to soften points and then impress upon them the truth of scripture. And your post here is such a valid example of why.

Truth? Discerning "is" judging.

1 Corinthians 2:14​

14 The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are discerned only through the Spirit.

“Judging” is not the same as “discerning.” Discerning is a conscious effort to carefully and considerately explore the moral right and wrong of a situation, or an opinion, or an action, with the desire, in the end, to honor God and serve those involved. Discernment pursues the understanding of what is morally right and acceptable to God while trying to avoid what is morally wrong and unacceptable to God. Notice this: discernment is not about deciding whether one person thinks another person is right or wrong. Discernment is about understanding what moral position God holds in relation to the question under discussion. The standard for determining moral acceptability is God, not the speaker of the moment. Discernment has no desire to pigeonhole people (that would be “judging”) but for the sake of what is best for all to understand and embrace what God Himself has said is most like Himself in our thinking, our living, and our loving.

 

[th1bill]

Nope! Discerning is making a judgment and living for YHWH, living righteously to Judge Righteously is to live for YHWH. Your best bet s to agree to disagree with me because it is my position that no Scripture can be understood (interpreted) without the light of all Scripture shining on it. The worst thing that ever happened to YHWH's Word is the Chapter and Verse addresses added by men.

 

[Soul_Tsunami]

Nope! Discerning is making a judgment and living for YHWH, living righteously to Judge Righteously is to live for YHWH. Your best bet s to agree to disagree with me because it is my position that no Scripture can be understood (interpreted) without the light of all Scripture shining on it. The worst thing that ever happened to YHWH's Word is the Chapter and Verse addresses added by men.

Show me where anything that is mentioned in the bible, let's use the New King James version for example, that contradicts itself.

What are you using for this debate? Or is this just your own thinking?

Thanks for the discussion.

 

[th1bill]

Show me where anything that is mentioned in the bible, let's use the New King James version for example, that contradicts itself.

What are you using for this debate? Or is this just your own thinking?

Thanks for the discussion.

I have studied the scriptures in several versions since 1/1/90 when I was indwelt with Ruah and I fully submitted to Yahova.

 

[Soul_Tsunami]

I have studied the scriptures in several versions since 1/1/90 when I was indwelt with Ruah and I fully submitted to Yahova.

So have I and there is no place in the bible that contradicts itself. If you believe there is please show me where.

 

[anetazo]

Thiers good points and documentation by brethren here. Ephesians chapter 2, Satan influences the wicked. I moved away from Narcissist in 2018. I was emotionally and mentally abused. A number of times, he was alone in other room, and suddenly, he says, I CANT DO THAT TO HIM. I believe in demonic influence. I believe he was responding to a entity, evil spirit.
In 2004, a former girlfriend left message on answering machine. It was 5 minutes long. It was swearing and Hatred. Her voice changed to masculine voice. She admitted shes evil.
Satan and evil spirits influence or control wicked people.
Proverbs chapter 30:12 . There is a generation that are pure in their own eyes, and is not yet washed from their Filth.

 

[th1bill]

So have I and there is no place in the bible that contradicts itself. If you believe there is please show me where.

I never said it did, why are you looking for a fight?

 

[Ophiolite]

Neighbor, with the current butchery of the English Language in these New Dictionaries that are firmly entrenched in the minds of under forty-year-olds it has become impossible to soften points and then impress upon them the truth of scripture. And your post here is such a valid example of why.

Truth? Discerning "is" judging.

Some equivocation seems to be creeping in here. (And yes, that is a judgement. An academic judgement.)

Discerning equates much more to noting, or observing. It is descriptive. Judging is implicitly proscriptive.

I don't think you have butchered the English language in your comments, but you have certainly run rough shod over its subtely and grace and, ultimately, its meaning.

(For the record, several decades have past since I was under forty. )

Discerning an action of another affords thad individual the opportunity to reflect upon and judge their own action.