Evil spirits/demons

[Susan]

I wanted to ask 2 questions.

The first is, what is your view of spiritual warfare? Please be as specific as possible as to that in your posts.

As for me, I now believe that believers and small children are protected from the demonic by default, in that the blood of Christ covers them and God watches over them, but that unbelievers are open to all demonic problems.

I believe that most "demonic" activity among Christians is due to other causes (the world, the flesh, fallenness) and simply called demons because spiritual warfare of this sort is an easy way to explain things that are harder to explain, also that it is the "in" thing to "combat demons" rather than go to a doctor, admit you have no explanation for tragedy in your life, etc. . .(like the people that say their baby cried at 2:00 AM because of demons, when the baby had a wet diaper, and when told that, they said that a demon must have caused the wet diaper) (that last part I MAY agree with ~.^)

So, while I believe demons exist, I believe that our individual warfare against them has already been won by Jesus.

But I digress. The second question is the poll question, and I want to ask if/how much at fault demons are for tragedy and misfortune in the world. Please also elaborate on your answer there

I believe that they are for some, but that other causes should be considered first and other measures should be taken to deal with those other causes. IOW, if you see a funnel cloud, don't rebuke the demon of tornadoes, run for the basement. 

 

 

[ZiSunka]

I agree that some Christians dwell too much on the idea that all woes are caused by demons. We create a lot of our own hells by our own actions and inactions. But some woes are caused by demonic activity.

When woe comes to you, and it will, ask yourself if it is a natural woe (like earthquakes, etc., that result from natural phenomena), bad things that you did (like the natural consequences of immoral activities), bad things that others did (like getting accidently hurt in a drunken driving crash), etc. Almost always, there is a non-demonic explanation for the troubles.

 

[seebs]

I have yet to be actually *convinced* that I've ever seen a demon do anything. I mean, ever. I've had a few of the sorts of experiences usually attributed to them (waking up and being unable to move, etc.), but I'm a psych geek, so I assume the normal physiological explanation applies. I don't worry much; God protects us.

 

[Susan]

Has anyone heard of some "Baptist Pentecostal" teacher named Ron Philipps? I'm not sure if that is the correct name (He has a program on good old TBN ), but I am praying that his view of spiritual warfare (everything bad is probably caused by demons, and Christians can get possessed by even unwittingly having a dangerous symbol in their home or speaking a bad report) does NOT catch on among mainstream evangelical Baptists.

 

[Blade]

I just heard a woman (Sorry dont know here name..TBN) I was just flipping and she said "Your flesh will give you more trouble than satan will". She said "Satan gets to much credit for that"

I think shes right on that. One time I had a encounter was at my moms house and the sprirt, it was all black yet see through and he look at me as he walked by right through the house. That did not trouble me, the part that troubled me was that I new he did not care about me at all. I was nothing to him. He was not scared of me at all. I think God let me see this to let me know how much we really need to be in prayer and our eyes one Jesus. At the time I just was kinda playing around (being a christian) and if I would have said "in the name of Jesus" he would have said Jesus we know but who are you? But PRAISE GOD not any more..

I think your right on Susan. I think if we could really see we would be in shock at what really goes on arould us. So many christians have no idea how much power Jesus gave us. Just at his NAME

 

[Andrew]

As for me, I now believe that believers andÊsmall childrenÊare protected fromÊthe demonic by default, in that the blood of Christ covers them and God watches over them,

not true at all by the fact that there are many Christians in the asylum, etc. protection from tragedies isnt automatic just becos you are a Christian.

Bad things are attributed to the devil directly or indirectly. Yes sometimes its our flesh at work (not demonic possession) but ultimately, everything goes back to the devil at the garden.

 

[A Sheep]

Originally posted by Andrew
not true at all by the fact that there are many Christians in the asylum, etc. protection from tragedies isnt automatic just becos you are a Christian.

Bad things are attributed to the devil directly or indirectly. Yes sometimes its our flesh at work (not demonic possession) but ultimately, everything goes back to the devil at the garden.

Diseases due to our fallen nature do happen, as would be the cause of schizophrenia and other mental illnesses that the people in those hospitals/asylums (and others) are ill with. I will believe that born-again, Holy Spirit-filled, Christians can be inflicted with diseases by demons, if, and only if, you show me (a) verse(s) in the New Testament that shows a born-again Christian being possessed by a demon or scripture that tells us that it is possible. A born-again Christian's body is a temple of the Holy Spirit; how can a demon possess a temple of the Holy Spirit?

Death, disease, pain, and all other negative things, are to do with what happened in the Garden of Eden; but not what the devil did, it was Adam and Eve's sin that caused sin to enter the world which brought death and pain into the world. The devil did lie to Eve; but it was Adam and Eve's sin which actually brought death (and other terrible things) into the world.

Born-again Christians are a new-creation and are forgiven; but we are still sinners and do stumble. With or without the "help" of demons. We see in God's Word that "all have sinned," but we do not see that demons have caused everyone to sin or become ill.

Demons DO exist, and they are active in our world (yes, even now, in the "Twenty-First Century"), but humans should not be blaming every problem on demons; we should be acknowledging that we are sinners and look unto God for forgiveness and help.

 

[JourneyFaith]

Spiritual Warfare is very, very real. No, not all bad things are caused by or due to demons or Satan. However, Satan and his demonic forces are at work trying everything they can to win the spiritual battle.

My opinion about Christians being somehow immuned to these attacks is that we aren't. Especially "new" christians. Satan will do every thing possible, find a weakness, to get us to look away from God and back into selves. I feel, (again my opinion), that we should always be aware of things going on around us. We must have that prayer covering as well, to keep us aware spiritually to what is happening in our lives.

 

Your Brother In Christ

Ken

 

[Andrew]

I will believe that born-again, Holy Spirit-filled, Christians can be inflicted with diseases by demons, if, and only if, you show me (a) verse(s) in the New Testament that shows a born-again Christian being possessed by a demon or scripture that tells us that it is possible. A born-again Christian's body is a temple of the Holy Spirit; how can a demon possess a temple of the Holy Spirit?

Firstly, I did not say that a Christian can be possesed by an evil spirit. They cant. To qualify...

Our body is three-part too, just like God is triune and the tabernacle in the OT is three-part.

We have a spirit (Holy of Holies), soul (? sorry cant rem) and physical body (outer court). The Holy Spirit dwells with our spirit when we are born again. That part of us cannot be possessed by a devil. In that sense, a Christian can never be demon possessed (ie the voice changes, superhuman strength etc -- that kind of possession).

But in terms of our soul/mind and body, we can be afflicted or oppressed by demons.

Our souls (minds/will/emotions) were not born again, that's why we are told to renew our mind with the Word of God, focus on things that are pure and holy, bring our flesh under the control of the Spirit etc.

Our physical bodies were also not born again. Blues eyes remain blue, bald head remains bald etc after you are saved (although physical healing sometimes do take place).

So these 2 parts of the Christian can become suppressed, oppressed, harassed by demons -- thru mental illnesses or physical diseases. (Lets not use the word possesed or it becomes confusing)

Granted not every case is a result of a demon. But most healing evangelists believe that when in comes to the incurable, a foul spirit is usu behind it. eg cancer, which seems to have a life of its own, spreads, and returns even after organs are removed.

evil spirits want to manifest themselves into the physical. they do this thru disease, taking over your mind and ultimately, full possession of the body (spirit).

finally, for convenience sake, i simply attribute all bad things to the devil whether directly or indirectly (temptation at the Garden). Afterall, bad things dont come from God and Jesus did say that the Devil comes to kill, steal and destroy.

eg, he steals your health (hence your finances too), destroys the cells in your body (your organs get removed), and ultimately kills you.

 

[Blindfaith]

Excellent post Journey!  I completely agree with you.  That's why we're to wear the Armor of God.

 

[Texas Lynn]

I believe demons are a myth.

Once a tornado in Alabama crashed a church. About 3 were killed i think. some superstitious folks questioned whether or not God had something against the church. G. Gordon Liddy said on his radio show, "they just made the mistake of building the church in the path of a tornado, that's all!" and I agree completely.

 

[Kirisutokyoo-shinja]

Originally posted by Texas Lynn
I believe demons are a myth.

Once a tornado in Alabama crashed a church. About 3 were killed i think. some superstitious folks questioned whether or not God had something against the church. G. Gordon Liddy said on his radio show, "they just made the mistake of building the church in the path of a tornado, that's all!" and I agree completely.

First off...if they were "christians" they wouldn't be "superstitious"...Big contradiction there.

And this could go both ways...only those of the church who are if at all related to this incident and God know.  And if God did not have a judgement against the church...then it happened...and God's people will live through the storm.  Sure God knew this would happen and all the other things that will probably be brought up and "why" he "let" it happen if he wasn't mad at them...dada this and that...
That is all besides the point.  God is in control...period.

 

[Andrew]

I believe demons are a myth.

so i take it you are not a Christian. IOW you dont believe in a hell or heaven becos these places have demons and angels too.

so are angels (or the spirit world for that matter) all just myths to you? Was Jesus dealing with myths when he cast out the demons?

As for the tornado thing, it was certainly not from God for God does not come to kill steal and destroy, neither is He the author of chaos (the devil is in case you are wondering).

You could attribute it to "nature/physics" or you could link it back to the demon. eg when Jesus crossed the lake, a storm arose. Some preachers believe this storm to be demonic inspired becos they wanted to stop Jesus from reaching the other side to cast out the legion demon from the poor man.

 

[A Sheep]

The fact that demons (and non-fallen angels) exist is throughout the entire Bible.

 

[seebs]

There is enough room for dispute about what "demons" are that it's quite possible for me to believe in something I would call demons, and to dismiss something that someone else calls "demons" as a myth, without any inconsistency.

Did that make any sense at all? I'm afraid I'm a bit fuzzy in the head right now.

 

[Texas Lynn]

Originally posted by Andrew
so i take it you are not a Christian.

Then you would be mistaken.

 IOW you dont believe in a hell or heaven becos these places have demons and angels too.

That's rather a leap of illogic, now, isn't it?  

so are angels (or the spirit world for that matter) all just myths to you?

No.  FWIW i don't believe in ghosts, Bigfoot, the Loch Ness monster, cyclops, leviathan, and a lot of other superstions.

Was Jesus dealing with myths when he cast out the demons? 

It is possible he was dealing with mental illness.  We won't know the details in this life.  Perhaps Vladimir Zworkin was dealing with demons when he invented the television in 1926.

 

[Andrew]

quote:
Was Jesus dealing with myths when he cast out the demons?_
It is possible he was dealing with mental illness.

I think when Jesus himself calls it a demon I'll leave it at that and believe him. I dont think God was confused and got it mixed up with mental illness.

so angels, heaven and hell are real to you but demons are a myth? Wldn't that make Satan, the chief of demons, the biggest myth?

nevermind.

 

[Phoebe]

I think there are demons, but I also think they like to play with our minds for the most part.

 

I love reading Frank Perretti books.

 

[Kirisutokyoo-shinja]

Demons are not "superstitions"

 

 

[sbbqb7n16]

I think every good and perfect gift comes from God, and that too many people stand around talking about and worrying about a defeated enemy.