Evidence

BenAdam · Aug 22, 2006

stelow said:
What other language would a human speak? Someone will always be able to understand a real language, but gibberish is always going to be gibberish.

Well Paul said:

[FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]1 Cor 13:1 Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I have become sounding brass or a clanging cymbal.

[/FONT]Seeming to indicate we could speak with Angelic language.

My point about gibberish is that sometimes what we perceive isn't necessarily the truth. People still fake it though and it is gibberish. But Paul also said :

[FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]Rom 8:26 Likewise the Spirit also helps in our weaknesses. For we do not know what we should pray for as we ought, but the Spirit Himself makes intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered. [/FONT]

stelow · Aug 22, 2006

BenAdam said:
Well Paul said:

[FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]1 Cor 13:1 Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I have become sounding brass or a clanging cymbal.

[/FONT]Seeming to indicate we could speak with Angelic language.

[FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica][/FONT]

Paul is trying to make a point that now matter how excellent your speaking is, it is worth nothing if it is not done out of love.

BenAdam · Aug 22, 2006

stelow said:
Paul is trying to make a point that now matter how excellent your speaking is, it is worth nothing if it is not done out of love.

Of course, but that doesn't mean the other thing he is saying is hyperbole.

stelow · Aug 22, 2006

BenAdam said:
My point about gibberish is that sometimes what we perceive isn't necessarily the truth. People still fake it though and it is gibberish. But Paul also said :

[FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]Rom 8:26 Likewise the Spirit also helps in our weaknesses. For we do not know what we should pray for as we ought, but the Spirit Himself makes intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered. [/FONT]

Paul merely is pointing out the fact in our state of weakness or in our flesh we don't know how to pray; but by His Spirit working through us we will pray as we should.

BenAdam · Aug 22, 2006

stelow said:
Paul merely is pointing out the fact in our state of weakness or in our flesh we don't know how to pray; but by His Spirit working through us we will pray as we should.

nice rationalization...

stelow · Aug 22, 2006

BenAdam said:
Of course, but that doesn't mean the other thing he is saying is hyperbole.

There is no such word as hyperbole. There is no use in continuing this discussion. You are convinced people talk a language of angels even though you have never heard an angel talk.

Tamara224 · Aug 22, 2006

stelow said:
There is no such word as hyperbole. There is no use in continuing this discussion. You are convinced people talk a language of angels even though you have never heard an angel talk.

Hyperbole:

A figure of speech in which exaggeration is used for emphasis or effect, as in I could sleep for a year or This book weighs a ton.

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=hyperbole&db=*

heron · Aug 22, 2006

BenAdam · Aug 22, 2006

stelow said:
There is no such word as hyperbole. There is no use in continuing this discussion. You are convinced people talk a language of angels even though you have never heard an angel talk.

I've never seen an Eagle's egg either. I apologize, I didn't know I had to experience something for it to be real.

probinson · Aug 22, 2006

stelow said:
There is no such word as hyperbole. There is no use in continuing this discussion. You are convinced people talk a language of angels even though you have never heard an angel talk.

hyperbole

One entry found for hyperbole.
Main Entry: hy·per·bo·le

Pronunciation: hI-'p&r-b&-(")lE
Function: noun
Etymology: Latin, from Greek hyperbolE excess, hyperbole, hyperbola, from hyperballein to exceed, from hyper- + ballein to throw -- more at [SIZE=-1]DEVIL[/SIZE]
: extravagant exaggeration (as "mile-high ice-cream cones")
- hy·per·bo·list

/-list/ noun

stelow · Aug 22, 2006

heron said:
Listen to a few.... decide whether you would have considered them known languages if you heard someone next to you speaking in tongues:

I never said I had to understand the language, I said someone would have to understand it or it would be gibberish. Who cares what I think it has nothing do with it. I didn't write the bible.

PamC · Aug 22, 2006

The Bible never said you had to not understand the language or that those who spoke in tongues did not understand the language, but that some did not understand the tongues, it was unknown to some listeners. In all cases though gibber seems to not be understood by anyone as evidence by the fact that you can have 5 different interpreters and they always give 5 different answers. This is testable yourself. Isn't it problematic that everyone always cites examples of the gibber by some 3rd party story but it is never their own experience able to be verified? Are not tongues of angels, the language of the intuitive spirit and language of men, known languages? The former does not require man's larnyx.

jeolmstead · Aug 22, 2006

PamC said:
What evidence, if any, in the Bible is there of the gibberish babble (excuse the term as I don't know how better to describe the sounds made) for Pentecostalism today?

Pam,

I am not sure from your OP if you are seeking an answer to a question or just expressing your opinion.

Both my wife and I have had the ability to pray in tongues since 1982. My wife has the gift of interpretation. She understood a prophetic manifestation of tongues the first time she heard it. (God was gracious to her in this as she was a Southern Baptist at the time.)

If I give you first hand testimony of the things weve experienced, how will that help you? You can just as easily discount what I say.

And, If I tell you its real, You can find 5 others on another forum who will tell you its not.

Youll choose to believe what you want to believe.

The only advice I can give you is to seek God and ask Him to show you. He will if you are willing to listen.

God Bless

John O.

RevKidd · Aug 22, 2006

Tongues in its truest essence is evangelistic. Paul says in Corinthians that Tongues is for the unbeliever not the believer.

Question - How can tongues affect an unbeliever and bring them to a state of repentance and belief in Christ?

Answer - When that tongue spoken is an intelligent language understood by the unbeliever.

Question - Why does Paul say he speaks in tongues more than anyone?

Answer - Because he was a missionary. Going to various places with various dialects. I am willing to bet alot of money that Paul, never, spoke in tongues in the "Jibberish" manner, like we see today. Remember, tongues purpose is evangelism and to build God's church.

At pentecost we see unbelievers witnessing their dialects being spoken by foreigners. Those speaking in tongues were not speaking Jibberish.

The only account of any type of tongue not being a spoken language is when Paul says that spirit can utter moans and groans through us when we have nothing left to say and we allow the holy spirit to intercede for us. And remember, this action is when we are praying privately, not pubilically.

That is it. There is your evidence.

Let me say something real quick. We, as a body of Christ, need to be very careful when we say things that are not directly spoken about in God's word. The Bible is the utmost authority. Nothing should happen that is not in the realm of God's word. Example, we cannot say that "Jibberish" could happen, or that "we shouldn't put it past God". Those type of statements lead to bigger problems. The problem is where do we then draw the line theologically and doctrinally. I don't see anywhere in the bible where gibberish is spoken.

So should we expect God's Holy Spirit to move on a believer in such a way? If we say yes, than we are agreeing to an interpretational assumption based on human actions 2000 years later and not what God's word says. That leads to anyone saying that anything can be from God.

There are reports of tongues within the first few centuries after the apostles and such. Does anyone have documentation showing what type of tongue was being verbalized. I would be intrested.

PamC · Aug 22, 2006

What is claimed must be verified. If 5 different interpreters give 5 different answers to gibber, then that is evidence of something don't you think? If Jews could see others of other languages praising God, that would lead the Jew to Christ. Paul literally knew more languages than anyone else. Moans and groans are in the spirit, not in the languages (tongues). Praise God not only the tongue of Galileans was used to share the Word, but other tongues were open to the Word as well, otherwise you would need to have spoken Aramaic to be saved. That would be silly don't you think? Do you see what I am saying? Looking forward to see if you agree.

stelow · Aug 22, 2006

PamC said:
What is claimed must be verified. If 5 different interpreters give 5 different answers to gibber, then that is evidence of something don't you think? If Jews could see others of other languages praising God, that would lead the Jew to Christ. Paul literally knew more languages than anyone else. Moans and groans are in the spirit, not in the languages (tongues). Praise God not only the tongue of Galileans was used to share the Word, but other tongues were open to the Word as well, otherwise you would need to have spoken Aramaic to be saved. That would be silly don't you think? Do you see what I am saying? Looking forward to see if you agree.

PamC I do agree with what you wrote and it lines up with what the bible says.

PamC · Aug 22, 2006

Amen.

Questioning Christian · Aug 22, 2006

I can't believe this is even allowed as a discussion on a Pentecostal forum. Tongues are for today, for every person who wants to receive them.

PamC · Aug 22, 2006

It was a question being asked. What's the problem? Why disallow this enquiry.

Questioning Christian · Aug 22, 2006

What's the problem???

Try to go on a Baptist forum and attempt to discount baptism. It's totally improper.

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