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Every mutation is intercepted, for the life of a particular creature: maximum survival?

If I was going to die, from mutation...

  • I would start to panic as soon as I saw death coming

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • I would start to panic as soon as madness set in

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • I would start to panic as soon as cancer developed

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • I would still trust Evolution

    Votes: 1 50.0%
  • I wouldn't trust spirituality, even if I didn't trust Evolution completely

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • I would have to amputate *whatever* was necessary

    Votes: 1 50.0%

  • Total voters
    2

Gottservant

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Hi there,

EDIT (FROM END): So let me know what you think: the subject is basically "a life of mutation and a life of freedom from mutation, how do you think they compare?".

EDIT (FIRST CUT): So yes, first let me disclaim: I don't understand species as being any different from individuals, I don't understand species without every member of that species having agency and I don't understand why you would let a mutation go unchecked - on the assumption that good will happen elsewhere. That said: I am still interested in Evolution, because it has a versatility that I don't fully comprehend, in the light of God (why He allowed it, how much He allowed it, what He allowed it for). You may not like that I am only really interested in a layman's interpretation of the theory, on the other hand, if you really believed your theory: you wouldn't mind (the same goes for me and my faith: if you can't understand it, I will go to the brink of death, to make it easier for you).

Anyway, the short of it, is that I wish to surgically peel back the layers around Evolution, by starting with its smallest working "part": the mutation. I am of the belief that it is possible, by the power of God, to consistently and without fail interrupt mutations, from ever having an effect on the individual. Jesus is just one such example, of something that can be done more and more, through dependence on God. Being from God, I am not able to present this belief, without also providing a way for you to interpret it, that does not trap you and force you to reneg your belief - but that's ok, I'm interested in how you might look at it a different way myself! In this case, the difference of interpretation, is basically that if every mutation I ever had was intercepted, my perception of Evolution would be on hold!

What is interesting here, is that if Evolution is "on hold" (as I put it) it does not respond to selection pressure in cookie-cutter ways or it does but is manifestly therefore: not Evolution. Do you see what I am getting at, here? The creature whose Evolution is on hold, still survives, but not in keeping with differences to Evolution, purely survival as was originally "life" (as we may also assume now, is "greater" than life (selah)). The short of it being, that mutation is something we struggle with, in this life, not in another and if we have faith in another, who is free of mutations - such as JESUS - then we have begun to transcend "Evolution", because we are free of the subtext that we are somehow "slaves to the need for mutation to mean something" (something that it can never mean "without God").

I feel like I could say more, at this point, but I don't want to starting talking about life without mutations, until you are on board with the idea, that maybe your survival is not as "at stake" as you might have been tempted to say. I have struggled with this, and I find the best answer is to let other people who dream up defences to Evolution, to have their own say - first - that in the final assessment those that want to be judged by their own word, can seek to be so, without being judged - that is, in the sense that somehow "Evolution" is incomplete, or uncompetitive (let's just leave it there; I could say more, but the more I said would be 'disingenuously' more of my own ideas about how Evolution develops its own agency). The creativity of this, also, should be given it's own space - as I have reciprocated, here.

So let me know what you think: the subject is basically "a life of mutation and a life of freedom from mutation, how do you think they compare?".
 

Warden_of_the_Storm

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Life cannot be free from mutation. Mutation, adaptation, IS a part of life, one of the most important parts of the biology of any creature in this world.

Why do you refuse to acknolwedge simple facts of science?
 
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Brightmoon

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Mutations and ultimately evolution happens because DNA has a sloppy copying mechanism. If you don’t like that you’ll have to take it up with God because He created life to evolve. If living organisms didn’t evolve then plate tectonics would have driven then to extinction. The continents have moved around a lot .
 
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FrumiousBandersnatch

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Hi there,

EDIT (FROM END): So let me know what you think: the subject is basically "a life of mutation and a life of freedom from mutation, how do you think they compare?".

EDIT (FIRST CUT): So yes, first let me disclaim: I don't understand species as being any different from individuals, I don't understand species without every member of that species having agency and I don't understand why you would let a mutation go unchecked - on the assumption that good will happen elsewhere. That said: I am still interested in Evolution, because it has a versatility that I don't fully comprehend, in the light of God (why He allowed it, how much He allowed it, what He allowed it for). You may not like that I am only really interested in a layman's interpretation of the theory, on the other hand, if you really believed your theory: you wouldn't mind (the same goes for me and my faith: if you can't understand it, I will go to the brink of death, to make it easier for you).

Anyway, the short of it, is that I wish to surgically peel back the layers around Evolution, by starting with its smallest working "part": the mutation. I am of the belief that it is possible, by the power of God, to consistently and without fail interrupt mutations, from ever having an effect on the individual. Jesus is just one such example, of something that can be done more and more, through dependence on God. Being from God, I am not able to present this belief, without also providing a way for you to interpret it, that does not trap you and force you to reneg your belief - but that's ok, I'm interested in how you might look at it a different way myself! In this case, the difference of interpretation, is basically that if every mutation I ever had was intercepted, my perception of Evolution would be on hold!

What is interesting here, is that if Evolution is "on hold" (as I put it) it does not respond to selection pressure in cookie-cutter ways or it does but is manifestly therefore: not Evolution. Do you see what I am getting at, here? The creature whose Evolution is on hold, still survives, but not in keeping with differences to Evolution, purely survival as was originally "life" (as we may also assume now, is "greater" than life (selah)). The short of it being, that mutation is something we struggle with, in this life, not in another and if we have faith in another, who is free of mutations - such as JESUS - then we have begun to transcend "Evolution", because we are free of the subtext that we are somehow "slaves to the need for mutation to mean something" (something that it can never mean "without God").

I feel like I could say more, at this point, but I don't want to starting talking about life without mutations, until you are on board with the idea, that maybe your survival is not as "at stake" as you might have been tempted to say. I have struggled with this, and I find the best answer is to let other people who dream up defences to Evolution, to have their own say - first - that in the final assessment those that want to be judged by their own word, can seek to be so, without being judged - that is, in the sense that somehow "Evolution" is incomplete, or uncompetitive (let's just leave it there; I could say more, but the more I said would be 'disingenuously' more of my own ideas about how Evolution develops its own agency). The creativity of this, also, should be given it's own space - as I have reciprocated, here.

So let me know what you think: the subject is basically "a life of mutation and a life of freedom from mutation, how do you think they compare?".
Mutation and selection made us (and all life on Earth) what we are.
 
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Amittai

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In passing, are we allowed to vote none / several / add more choices?

Our bodies are part of our vehicle for our individual identity. Generally, there are in nature as many stabilising factors as changing ones. There always was going to be an irregular macro-rhythm for alterations in the balance of these. The unfashionable science of physics among many others, was uncovering yet more clues when I last looked.

As for illnesses there always were going to be serious ones.

There has been a huge trend to shallowness and complacency in the public mentality we each are "expected to" buy into. The "system" apparently doesn't even seem to want us to know our own faculties.

If we study our own faculties, we can infer how to get them in line with each other, which is, I think, what integrity is. Genuine integrity of this kind (and not inconsequential moralising) is probably the biggest single thing to pull us through, even if we don't understand how the latter, in itself, will occur.
 
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Brightmoon

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I’m in my mid 60s . I’ve got grey hair because of , wait for it, a mutation! Some of my hair growth cells no longer produce melanin . When my dog got old her muzzle got grey hair . Mutations happen in individuals but those are body cells. For mutations to cause evolution they’d have to happen in the germ cells .

Once those genetic changes are in the breeding population then, and only then, are they significant for a selection process by natural phenomena to act on them .

cancer might be caused by mutations to individuals cells but unless you passed that genetic tendency to your offspring it’s just bad luck not evolution .

That creationist based poor understanding of natural phenomena hinders understanding nature .
 
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The IbanezerScrooge

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Oh my goodness. Another poll with answers that are not even wrong. Give up, Gotts. Seriously. You do not understand this topic and you seem to refuse to learn as Warden suggests.
 
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Gottservant

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Oh my goodness. Another poll with answers that are not even wrong. Give up, Gotts. Seriously. You do not understand this topic and you seem to refuse to learn as Warden suggests.

Warden thinks "Evolution exists without a negative".

The reality is almost everything has a negative.

How am I supposed to "learn" that?
 
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Gottservant

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Mutation and selection made us (and all life on Earth) what we are.

What about 'compounding' the "truth", so that it lasts longer?

Are you saying "no amount of truth, can out-survive mutation" (even compounded?)??

If I compounded my perception of the truth, for the rest of my life, I would still die when a greater selection pressure came along? That is the nature of the truth??
 
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Warden_of_the_Storm

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Warden thinks "Evolution exists without a negative".

The reality is almost everything has a negative.

How am I supposed to "learn" that?

You've shown no actual example of what a negative adaptation is.
 
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Warden_of_the_Storm

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It's simple: if its more than necessary, it can be cut.

Except once an adaptation is in the gene-pool, it cannot be removed. It remains in the genetics of the individuals in the population.

So, once again, you've shown no example of what you claim to be a negative adaptation.
 
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FrumiousBandersnatch

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What about 'compounding' the "truth", so that it lasts longer?

Are you saying "no amount of truth, can out-survive mutation" (even compounded?)??

If I compounded my perception of the truth, for the rest of my life, I would still die when a greater selection pressure came along? That is the nature of the truth??
I have no idea what you're asking (do you?).
 
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Gottservant

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Except once an adaptation is in the gene-pool, it cannot be removed. It remains in the genetics of the individuals in the population.

So, once again, you've shown no example of what you claim to be a negative adaptation.

This is some sort of new rule: "we have to remember the Evolution, of the past"

I don't think it is substantiated, by the need to survive (tnts) - did we remember Evolution in the past? No, we didn't know what it was, how could we remember it? Therefore Evolution has nothing to do with the past.

I think in reality (tntx) the need to do anything, for an Evolutionist, is weighed against what it would be to give it up again - from dust we came and to dust we return, Evolution in Heaven is going to be far purer than anything on Earth whether we experienced it enough, or not.
 
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Gottservant

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I have no idea what you're asking (do you?).

You don't understand 'compounding the truth' - have you ever meditated? Enjoyed a sunset? Had an engrossing dream?

Nothing at first glance, needs to have a particular Evolution,, we are all just guessing what it may be, in the end, that we need to evolve.

Darwin is laughing in Heaven, saying "When are you going to help me, with my Evolution - for the good of all of us?" - there is no sense in having individual interpretations of Evolution, if the greater vision, is not upheld.
 
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Warden_of_the_Storm

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This is some sort of new rule: "we have to remember the Evolution, of the past"

I don't think it is substantiated, by the need to survive (tnts) - did we remember Evolution in the past? No, we didn't know what it was, how could we remember it? Therefore Evolution has nothing to do with the past.

I think in reality (tntx) the need to do anything, for an Evolutionist, is weighed against what it would be to give it up again - from dust we came and to dust we return, Evolution in Heaven is going to be far purer than anything on Earth whether we experienced it enough, or not.

Nonsense. Complete and utter nonsense.
 
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FrumiousBandersnatch

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You don't understand 'compounding the truth' - have you ever meditated? Enjoyed a sunset? Had an engrossing dream?
Yes to all those. What do you mean by 'compounding the truth'?

Nothing at first glance, needs to have a particular Evolution,, we are all just guessing what it may be, in the end, that we need to evolve.
Evolution is just an undirected process; it happens regardless of perceived need.

Darwin is laughing in Heaven, saying "When are you going to help me, with my Evolution - for the good of all of us?" - there is no sense in having individual interpretations of Evolution, if the greater vision, is not upheld.
The 'greater vision' has been and is being upheld, with a greater understanding of its mechanisms than Darwin could have dreamed.
 
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