Even with tight gun control London murder rate surpasses New York

[Mountainmanbob]

Looks like it's not the guns fault?
M-Bob

 

[A_Thinker]

Even with tight gun control London murder rate surpasses New York ...
M-Bob

... for (2) whole months ...

From the BBC ...

"Criminologists and police chiefs love studying the differences and similarities in violence between big cities because the huge amounts of data can give clues as to what works best to keep people safe.

There has been no end of comparisons down the decades of London and New York because, on the face of things, the cities are broadly comparable.

They're both cosmopolitan "world cities" with broadly similar populations of more than 8 million people. They also have big gaps between rich and poor inhabitants.

But there has always been one significant difference: the crime rate. So this weekend's report in the Sunday Times, which could be interpreted as suggesting that London was now more dangerous than New York, needs some unpicking. And, as you may have come to expect from BBC Reality Check, the truth is a little more complex.

Image copyrightGETTY IMAGES
Image captionNew York police have opened 50 murder files so far this year - this compares with 48 in London
According to the newspaper, London overtook New York's "murder rate" in February "as the capital endured a dramatic surge in knife crime".

That is true. The New York Police Department dealt with 11 homicides in February - while London's Metropolitan Police opened investigations into 15 deaths. And in March, there were 22 killings in London and one fewer on the other side of the Atlantic.

But that grim month-by-month tally is not quite the whole story.

The one thing that's always true about statistics is that there will be blips - sudden rises or falls in the data. These two high months for London could ultimately turn out to be outliers.

We don't yet know. But older data shows why we should be cautious.

In January, for example, the Met investigated eight murders in London. The NYPD looked into 18 killings.

And that means that while Scotland Yard has opened 48 homicide inquiries so far this year, New York has in fact opened 50 murder files.

Looking at 2017, the homicide rate per 100,000 population stood at 1.2 in London and 3.4 in New York.

While the difference between the two cities has definitely narrowed - the trend is far from fixed. And even older figures are also quite revealing.

In 2007, New York witnessed 496 homicides. That was three times more than in London. Last year, the American city suffered 292 killings and London 130.

The rate of killings so far this year in London is higher than it was during the same period last year. The fatalities include five shootings and 31 stabbings.

Nine of those killed were teenagers and crimes involving knives and sharp instruments across England and Wales are at their highest level since 2011.

Why the rate is going up in London, so far this year, is unclear. There's a push for police to stop and search more suspects for weapons after a big fall in the use of the power since 2010. But New York police have also reduced their use of similar powers over the same period - and their murder rate has fallen."

 

[razzelflabben]

Looks like it's not the guns fault?
M-Bob[/QUOTE]
One of the things I see going on that he didn't talk about is societies idea that being angry is somehow empowering. WE (society) are teaching our kids that they not only have a right but that it is good to always be angry about something because if you are angry you can make a difference in our society and change something that you don't like. This anger mentality is very harmful to the individual as well as society as a whole and opens the door for more and more violence. I've unfortunately seen my own children fall prey to this "teaching".

As to the rest of what he said, I pretty much agree.

 

[razzelflabben]

... for (2) whole months ...

From the BBC ...

"Criminologists and police chiefs love studying the differences and similarities in violence between big cities because the huge amounts of data can give clues as to what works best to keep people safe.

There has been no end of comparisons down the decades of London and New York because, on the face of things, the cities are broadly comparable.

They're both cosmopolitan "world cities" with broadly similar populations of more than 8 million people. They also have big gaps between rich and poor inhabitants.

But there has always been one significant difference: the crime rate. So this weekend's report in the Sunday Times, which could be interpreted as suggesting that London was now more dangerous than New York, needs some unpicking. And, as you may have come to expect from BBC Reality Check, the truth is a little more complex.

Image copyrightGETTY IMAGES
Image captionNew York police have opened 50 murder files so far this year - this compares with 48 in London
According to the newspaper, London overtook New York's "murder rate" in February "as the capital endured a dramatic surge in knife crime".

That is true. The New York Police Department dealt with 11 homicides in February - while London's Metropolitan Police opened investigations into 15 deaths. And in March, there were 22 killings in London and one fewer on the other side of the Atlantic.

But that grim month-by-month tally is not quite the whole story.

The one thing that's always true about statistics is that there will be blips - sudden rises or falls in the data. These two high months for London could ultimately turn out to be outliers.

We don't yet know. But older data shows why we should be cautious.

In January, for example, the Met investigated eight murders in London. The NYPD looked into 18 killings.

And that means that while Scotland Yard has opened 48 homicide inquiries so far this year, New York has in fact opened 50 murder files.

Looking at 2017, the homicide rate per 100,000 population stood at 1.2 in London and 3.4 in New York.

While the difference between the two cities has definitely narrowed - the trend is far from fixed. And even older figures are also quite revealing.

In 2007, New York witnessed 496 homicides. That was three times more than in London. Last year, the American city suffered 292 killings and London 130.

The rate of killings so far this year in London is higher than it was during the same period last year. The fatalities include five shootings and 31 stabbings.

Nine of those killed were teenagers and crimes involving knives and sharp instruments across England and Wales are at their highest level since 2011.

Why the rate is going up in London, so far this year, is unclear. There's a push for police to stop and search more suspects for weapons after a big fall in the use of the power since 2010. But New York police have also reduced their use of similar powers over the same period - and their murder rate has fallen."

the way I see it...given that stats can be manipulated is more about what doesn't work than what does. IOW's with fewer guns in London, do we see the dramatic drop that we are told we would have with gun control here...no...so that is apparently not the solution then, right?!

 

[NothingIsImpossible]

In Switzerland everyone has a gun and yet pretty much never been shootings. Hmm. Seems americas issue isn't guns, its culture.

 

[DawnStar]

In Sweden everyone has a gun and yet pretty much never been shootings. Hmm. Seems americas issue isn't guns, its culture.

Are you sure you do not mean Switzerland?

 

[Ancient of Days]

In Sweden everyone has a gun and yet pretty much never been shootings. Hmm. Seems americas issue isn't guns, its culture.

And even more so, its a sin problem.

 

[com7fy8]

According to what I read in CBS net news >

New York's murder rate is down "87%" while London's rate has climbed "40%"; so not only is London catching up, but New York has been going down. Reuters says London and New York have similar populations, by the way.

CBS says London's murders include 10 stabbing murders in 19 days. So, it's not all by guns.

Ones say London has had a big decrease in police beats, and they have been closing youth centers.

So . . . trying to save money could have something to do with this.

Also, if you are caught twice with a knife, in London, you do not go to jail. Of course, this could be in order to save money on jailing people.

Reuters says London has very strict gun control laws and a lot of police do not carry firearms. There have been 47 murders, so far, this year, and 31 of them have been stabbings.

CBS says people say that New York is doing better because of public health education effort. Kids need to be taught that they do not need to carry knives. Ones in England suspect that social media helps people to have the mentality that if you are angry, this should quickly lead to a fight. Reuters says someone says that social media has disputes turning quickly to violence.

So, people understand that education is needed, for young people.

CBS says that New York has gone to a shared responsibility thing, of police with neighborhoods. Residents even can have an officer's cell number and e-dress, so they can get into a rapport with the same officer. They don't keep moving officers around, but people keep getting the same officers in their areas.

But an earlier mayor of New Orleans says other things are needed, too. New Orleans had a major cut in crime, and he says it was also because of youth things and economic help, along with neighborhood policing.

Ones, of course, are saying that police don't have enough accountability; this is needed, also. But an officer says police do have each other's back, in order to keep the lid on their troubles so they don't spill over as unjustified police force.

And there is hope, too, of police in more connection with the ones they serve inspiring youths to become officers.

I can see how mother and father figures could even help youths to see how to do it right.

So, of course, it can not depend only on the plan or policy. People need to make the effort to make whatever program work well.

 

[sfs]

In Switzerland everyone has a gun and yet pretty much never been shootings. Hmm. Seems americas issue isn't guns, its culture.

Hmm. According to this, Switzerland had the fourth highest gun homicide rate, the third highest gun-related suicide rate and the second highest rate of unintentional gun deaths of the 24 countries examined. The Swiss also have much stricter gun control than in the US.

 

[Zoii]

Yes they have had a spate of murders havent they - but @Mountainmanbob that higher rate than NYC is only for the last 2 months not for the year or last 5 years.

Also the top 50 cities with the highest homocide rates has three cities from the USA and none from UK - Still its way better than Brasil
List of cities by murder rate - Wikipedia

 

[Southernscotty]

Gun control where I come from is simply keeping your booger hook off the bang switch
This from a hillbilly perspective.

 

[DrakMugiVenwing1989]

Are you sure you do not mean Switzerland?

Its not the guns, its people themselves. If you want something, if you truly truly want it, you find a way. That in itself makes gun control useless. Its why making weed alcohol consumption and drugs legal or illegal does nothing. Because even if you make them illegal, people will still use guns and smoke weed and abuse drugs. Guns do not kill people, people kill people. What I dont understand is this: Why are people never focused on the reasons people go after this stuff? If you attack the source of the problem, then theres no problem anymore. How is that so hard to understand? To stop suicide, go after the things that cause people stress and hurt. Try uprooting the things that lead to stress and depression, put your anger towards those things to eliminate the suicide attempts and shootings and the like. That way, stuff like drug and gun control wont even be considered necessary anymore. Am I right? And if Im wrong, please explain why I am wrong?

 

[Phil 1:21]

Maybe they should make London a "knife free zone." That seems to stop problems right here in the good old U.S. of A.