eva's fall

[marooyce]

If Eva is told to have chosen her 5 senses and eat the fruit, then what does it mean that they were connected with God ? How can a person living the Truth in real-time connection with God fall ?

 

[Rafael]

Are you speaking of Eve in the Bible?

 

[marooyce]

Who do you think ?
Yes, Eve from the Bible.

 

[oneiric]

Because she is not a slave. She has free will. The will to choose between right and wrong.

 

[PRMan]

Even now through Christ Christians can have a very close relationship with God. Still, Satan and our fleshly desires are constantly there to persuade us to sin. It is exactly this sin which reminds us why we need Christ, and showed Eve that she needed to be saved as well.

 

[marooyce]

God created two perfect human beings, free from any guile or baggage. He, the Al-mighty, commanded them directly not to eat the fruit of a certain tree. Yet these two innocent souls, who had never been exposed to a corrupting influence, disobeyed Him within hours. Was there something flawed in their creation?

In Chassidic teachings, this question is asked in sweeter tones: Why would God want to instill in us a little piece of Himself, the Godly soul, and expose it to a world of ugliness and darkness?

 

[Reformationist]

Was there something flawed in their creation?

Not at all. Things happened exactly the way God had ordained they should happen. We are finite beings and cannot understand the Will of God beyond that which He reveals to us. All we can deduce from Scripture is that if something happened, like the Fall of man, it was always God's Will that it come to pass because He is eternal as well as omnipotent.

Why would God want to instill in us a little piece of Himself, the Godly soul, and expose it to a world of ugliness and darkness?

Again, we can only acknowledge that whatsoever comes to pass God has a righteous, divine reason for bringing it to pass. We will never fully understand the exhaustive Will of God because, regardless of our glorification, we will always be finite beings. We can understand the Fall to the extent that God desired that it come to pass to bring glory unto the Godhead.

God bless

 

[HeatherJay]

God created two perfect human beings, free from any guile or baggage. He, the Al-mighty, commanded them directly not to eat the fruit of a certain tree. Yet these two innocent souls, who had never been exposed to a corrupting influence, disobeyed Him within hours. Was there something flawed in their creation?

In Chassidic teachings, this question is asked in sweeter tones: Why would God want to instill in us a little piece of Himself, the Godly soul, and expose it to a world of ugliness and darkness?

There's really no scripture that tells us exactly how long Adam and Eve had been in the garden before they sinned...it could have been hours, or it could have been years. Considering that Adam lived into his 900's, I seriously doubt that he sinned within the first day.

Love, Heather

 

[Benedicta00]

God created two perfect human beings, free from any guile or baggage. He, the Al-mighty, commanded them directly not to eat the fruit of a certain tree. Yet these two innocent souls, who had never been exposed to a corrupting influence, disobeyed Him within hours. Was there something flawed in their creation?

No. But they had free will to make a choice.

In Chassidic teachings, this question is asked in sweeter tones: Why would God want to instill in us a little piece of Himself, the Godly soul, and expose it to a world of ugliness and darkness?

He did not install a little piece of himself in us, we were in full communion with him before the fall, we had nothing in between us and him, God wanted them to choose him freely, he gave us the gift of free will, free will is a gift and he wants us to love him freely because love is not love if it is not given and received freely.

He put them in the garden and told them to enjoy but not to eat off of one tree and they disobeyed God from their free choice to do so when they were tempted.

The lesson for us is, they had supernatural grace all they had to do is call on that grace and they did not, they chose to sin. We do the same, we could call on our grace as born again Christians who have been reconciled but we don't, instead we chose to sin.

But the good news is God forgives us and even though Adam and Eve blew it, he still loved his creation and sent us a savior. We may not be able to see him face to face right now because of the sin in this world that is between us and him, but he does come to us and unites himself to us and we have this communion with him when we receive him in communion, we do have his Spirit who lives in us and by him, we can see God through the eyes of faith and have communion with him where we live and have our being in him.

 

[Benedicta00]

There's really no scripture that tells us exactly how long Adam and Eve had been in the garden before they sinned...it could have been hours, or it could have been years. Considering that Adam lived into his 900's, I seriously doubt that he sinned within the first day.

Love, Heather

Good point.

 

[Benedicta00]

If Eva is told to have chosen her 5 senses and eat the fruit, then what does it mean that they were connected with God ? How can a person living the Truth in real-time connection with God fall ?

By God giving them the gift of free will to them.

 

[marooyce]

Well, they could have sinned after 1 year. Who cares ?
The problem here is why the very first human beings, both man and woman, are choosing the bad choice. Why from the first generation ? Why it didn't happen with the second or third generation ?
And finally, what if Noe wasn't the good righteous man ? God wouldn;t have had what to save after all, had He destroyed Noe himself.

 

[HeatherJay]

I believe (as most Christians do, I think) that God had a Plan when He spoke the worlds into orbit. He knew that Adam and Eve would sin...he didn't make them sin, but He knew that they would. He wasn't angry at their sin...only saddened and disappointed. God could easily have decided to keep Adam and Eve pure (although that would have taken away free will and made them puppets, which we were never meant to be), but I have to believe that there's a much bigger picture. That bigger picture is the end that God's plan is moving toward.


Love, Heather

 

[Benedicta00]

Well, they could have sinned after 1 year. Who cares ?
The problem here is why the very first human beings, both man and woman, are choosing the bad choice. Why from the first generation ? Why it didn't happen with the second or third generation ?
And finally, what if Noe wasn't the good righteous man ? God wouldn;t have had what to save after all, had He destroyed Noe himself.

I agree with Heather. When God laid down the foundations in is plan, he included our free will, our choices for him or against him he allowed and included them in his great plan that we are moving towards.

 

[marooyce]

Then what's the point in becoming good righteous persons and being saved by God, if we're going to be "puppets" - without free will ? We will be always good in Heaven, wouldn' t we ?

 

[HeatherJay]

The point is that we're NOT puppets and we do have free will.

 

[Benedicta00]

Then what's the point in becoming good righteous persons and being saved by God, if we're going to be "puppets" - without free will ? We will be always good in Heaven, wouldn' t we ?

Who said we do not have free will? We chose to sin and God knew it before time and he still created us anyway and he included our choosing to sin in his plan.

We have no clues as to why he did it that way or why he knows there will be those who will never accept him and so they will be lost but he created them anyway, that is a pure mystery to us because he did not reveal that to us, he is God, he don't have to tell us everything but he told us enough and by what he told us we know to trust him, he knows what he is doing.

 

[marooyce]

Well, we don't know what He's doing since we have no clues about His plan, do we ?
As you said:"We have no clues as to why he did it that way or why he knows there will be those who will never accept him and so they will be lost but he created them anyway".
But since we have no clues, how do you know what to do to please him ? Having a choice you're saying is good, people are free, not puppets. Well, if I'm free to do wrong and God will punish me with Hell and Fire, what's the big deal about choice anyway ? Then, there's no choice. Who would be so crazy to choose this by his own conscious will ? Unless he's uncoscious. Unless he is blind, deaf, numb. Serioulsy, I don;t see the point.

 

[BarbB]

Does this debate belong in GA?

 

[Benedicta00]

Well, we don't know what He's doing since we have no clues about His plan, do we ?
As you said:"We have no clues as to why he did it that way or why he knows there will be those who will never accept him and so they will be lost but he created them anyway".
But since we have no clues, how do you know what to do to please him ? Having a choice you're saying is good, people are free, not puppets. Well, if I'm free to do wrong and God will punish me with Hell and Fire, what's the big deal about choice anyway ? Then, there's no choice. Who would be so crazy to choose this by his own conscious will ? Unless he's uncoscious. Unless he is blind, deaf, numb. Serioulsy, I don;t see the point.

We have no clue as to why he creates those he knows will be ****** but he is not the one to damns them, their sin damns them. He saved them but they choose not to accept that, that is why they are ******.