Evangelical Arminianism

[Jeff Carr]

Many people are looking for a viable alternative to Calvinism. I believe Evangelical Arminianism is that alternative. What it is can be viewed by the word 'FACTS'
F Freed will.
A Atonement for ALL.
C Conditional election.
T Total depravity.
S Security "in Christ".

It would seem to me to be more scriptural than the Calvinistic alternative.
Your thoughts?

 

[St_Worm2]

Hello @Jeff Carr, I have some questions about the differences between "Arminianism" and "Evangelical Arminianism".

For instance, the first point, "F", is what regular Arminianism refers to as "Prevenient Grace", yes? And the "C" and "T" points are shared by both systematic theologies (and I believe, if memory serves, are even referred to by the same names), correct?

That leaves the "A" in place of Arminianism's "Unlimited Atonement", right? (I never understood the reason for making such a fuss about that particular point, since Arminianism, Evangelical Arminianism and Calvinism all teach that the desired effect of the Lord's atoning sacrifice will only be experienced by those who come to saving faith )

And finally, the "S" "Security in Christ". Calvinism teaches that all true believers will persevere to the end in the faith (albeit imperfectly) and be glorified, while Arminianism teaches that a true believer 'may' persevere, but that he/she could also turn away from the faith, reject the Lord Jesus, and then die as a reprobate and be lost.

So, what does "Evangelical Arminianism" teach about a believer's "security in Christ"?

Thanks

God bless you!!

--David

 

[Jeff Carr]

Hello @Jeff Carr, I have some questions about the differences between "Arminianism" and "Evangelical Arminianism".

For instance, the first point, "F", is what regular Arminianism refers to as "Prevenient Grace", yes? And the "C" and "T" points are shared by both systematic theologies (and I believe, if memory serves, are even referred to by the same names), correct?

That leaves the "A" in place of Arminianism's "Unlimited Atonement", right? (I never understood the reason for making such a fuss about that particular point, since Arminianism, Evangelical Arminianism and Calvinism all teach that the desired effect of the Lord's atoning sacrifice will only be experienced by those who come to saving faith )

And finally, the "S" "Security in Christ". Calvinism teaches that all true believers will persevere to the end in the faith (albeit imperfectly) and be glorified, while Arminianism teaches that a true believer 'may' persevere, but that he/she could also turn away from the faith, reject the Lord Jesus, and then die as a reprobate and be lost.

So, what does "Evangelical Arminianism" teach about a believer's "security in Christ"?

Thanks

God bless you!!

--David

Hi David,
Arminians believe in a prevenient grace that frees the will to accept or reject the offer of salvation.
Arminians believe in 'conditional' election as opposed to Calvinists believing in 'unconditional' election.
As to security 'in Christ', most Arminians believe in conditional salvation. That is, a life of faith & obedience keeps us 'in Christ' and thus secure.

Hope this helps.

 

[St_Worm2]

Hello again @Jeff Carr, thanks, but one of my questions remains, what are the differences, if any, between classic "Arminianism" and "Evangelical Arminianism"? From what you've said above, they seem like the same thing.

Thanks again

--David

 

[Jeff Carr]

Hello again @Jeff Carr, thanks, but one of my questions remains, what are the differences, if any, between classic "Arminianism" and "Evangelical Arminianism"? From what you've said above, they seem like the same thing.

Thanks again

--David

Hi David,
In answer to your question, basically the same thing. There are a number of variants of Arminianism. I am a Wesleyan Arminian, following the Arminianism of John Wesley. There is also, Reformed Arminianism as followed by the Free Will Baptists of North America.
Cheers.

 

[d taylor]

Many people are looking for a viable alternative to Calvinism. I believe Evangelical Arminianism is that alternative. What it is can be viewed by the word 'FACTS'
F Freed will.
A Atonement for ALL.
C Conditional election.
T Total depravity.
S Security "in Christ".

It would seem to me to be more scriptural than the Calvinistic alternative.
Your thoughts?

-

​

The only alternative to Calvinism is, Free Grace and faith alone in Jesus. Believe in Jesus ( B I J )

 

[Clare73]

Many people are looking for a viable alternative to Calvinism. I believe Evangelical Arminianism is that alternative. What it is can be viewed by the word 'FACTS'
F Freed will.
A Atonement for ALL.
C Conditional election.
T Total depravity.
S Security "in Christ".

It would seem to me to be more scriptural than the Calvinistic alternative.
Your thoughts?

Election is not conditional; i.e., based on anything man does (Eph 1:4, 2 Th 2:13).
The same with the new birth (Jn 3:3-5), also by sovereign choice of the Holy Spirit, who is as unaccountable as the wind (Jn 3:6-8).

 

[Ivan Hlavanda]

A Atonement for ALL

Isn't this universalism? If Christ atoned for all, then all would go to Heaven.

Either Christ purchased you on the cross, paid the penalty, and took the wrath, or He did not. To me it seems like He only purchased His elect, not because they were better, but becauae of love.

 

[Richard T]

Isn't this universalism? If Christ atoned for all, then all would go to Heaven.

Either Christ purchased you on the cross, paid the penalty, and took the wrath, or He did not. To me it seems like He only purchased His elect, not because they were better, but becauae of love.

Jesus took the sins of the world. Calvinists see that world as only those who accept Christ. That is wrong, the gift lies their unopened and relegates that person to hell. Romans 1 says their "foolish heart was darkened." Once darkened they can still repent but if they die in that state, it is a terrible thing. Where Calvinists err too is the notion that Christians have no real impact on getting people saved. That runs counter to the "effectual fervent prayer accomplishes much" or that when a prophet does not warn the blood is on their hands. Our actions do matter. The whole bible points to individual Christians needing to do their part to bring in more sinners. Sadly, we too often fail.

 

[Jeff Carr]

-

​

The only alternative to Calvinism is, Free Grace and faith alone in Jesus. Believe in Jesus ( B I J )

Hi d taylor,
The problems with the 'Free Grace' position are.....
1. The idea of OSAS. My reading of Scripture shows that a believer can turn from Christ and lose their salvation..
2. A wrong view of repentance and a denial that it is a condition of salvation.
3. The view that one can take Jesus as one's Saviour but refuse to enthrone Him as Lord.
4. A view of imputed righteousness that says God sees us other than what we are.

For these reasons I do not see the 'Free Grace' position as viable.
Peace
Jeffrey

 

[Jeff Carr]

Isn't this universalism? If Christ atoned for all, then all would go to Heaven.

Either Christ purchased you on the cross, paid the penalty, and took the wrath, or He did not. To me it seems like He only purchased His elect, not because they were better, but becauae of love.

Hi Ivan,
From my reading of Scripture I find that Christ did not 'purchase' anything by His death , rather He 'provided' a way back to God. His atonement is SUFFICIENT for all but EFFECTIVE for only those who repent & believe.

Peace
Jeffrey

 

[Jeff Carr]

Election is not conditional; i.e., based on anything man does (Eph 1:4, 2 Th 2:13).
The same with the new birth (Jn 3:3-5), also by sovereign choice of the Holy Spirit, who is as unaccountable as the wind (Jn 3:6-8).

Hi Clare,
I see election/predestination as being 'corporate' not 'individual'. "He chose us IN HIM" Eph1:4. We are elect IN HIM. The Elect are those who by repentance & faith are IN HIM. Thus it is conditional.
Peace
Jeffrey

 

[Ivan Hlavanda]

Jesus took the sins of the world. Calvinists see that world as only those who accept Christ. That is wrong, the gift lies their unopened and relegates that person to hell. Romans 1 says their "foolish heart was darkened." Once darkened they can still repent but if they die in that state, it is a terrible thing. Where Calvinists err too is the notion that Christians have no real impact on getting people saved. That runs counter to the "effectual fervent prayer accomplishes much" or that when a prophet does not warn the blood is on their hands. Our actions do matter. The whole bible points to individual Christians needing to do their part to bring in more sinners. Sadly, we too often fail.

Christ paid the penalty only for those who would believe and repent. The debt has been paid for fully, and there is no condemnation. If you are in Christ, God is never judging you for your sin, because Christ drank the cup of God’s wrath and He drank it to the dregs. There is no condemnation for those in Christ Jesus and that means on the final day and every day until then.

Most of the world will be eternally condemned to hell to pay for their own sins, so they could not have been paid for by Christ.

Many people teach of salvation as drowning in the sea, Christ throws the lifebuoy and it's up to person to hold it.
But salvation is us being dead at the bottom of the sea, and Christ has to mercifully jump in the water, save us and give us life.

Sinners cannot come to the presence of the Holy God, and are unable to save themselves. Our hearts are deceitful and wicked. We do not even know we need to be saved.

Then how is it that some hear and believe? Because God gave them the ears to hear, and a new heart, and the Holy Spirit produced faith in them.

As RC Sproul said, 'If God did sovereignly and eternally plan to save each and every person in this world, then, unquestionably, every person in this world would be saved. But the New Testament screams to the contrary that not everybody is saved.'

 

[Ivan Hlavanda]

From my reading of Scripture I find that Christ did not 'purchase' anything by His death ,

Then how do you explain these verses

1 cor 6 20
For you were bought with a price. So glorify God in your body.

1 cor 7 23
You were bought with a price; do not become bondservants of men.

1 col 1 14
in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins.

 

[Jeff Carr]

Christ paid the penalty only for those who would believe and repent. The debt has been paid for fully, and there is no condemnation. If you are in Christ, God is never judging you for your sin, because Christ drank the cup of God’s wrath and He drank it to the dregs. There is no condemnation for those in Christ Jesus and that means on the final day and every day until then.

Most of the world will be eternally condemned to hell to pay for their own sins, so they could not have been paid for by Christ.

Many people teach of salvation as drowning in the sea, Christ throws the lifebuoy and it's up to person to hold it.
But salvation is us being dead at the bottom of the sea, and Christ has to mercifully jump in the water, save us and give us life.

Sinners cannot come to the presence of the Holy God, and are unable to save themselves. Our hearts are deceitful and wicked. We do not even know we need to be saved.

Then how is it that some hear and believe? Because God gave them the ears to hear, and a new heart, and the Holy Spirit produced faith in them.

As RC Sproul said, 'If God did sovereignly and eternally plan to save each and every person in this world, then, unquestionably, every person in this world would be saved. But the New Testament screams to the contrary that not everybody is saved.'

This Thread is a discussion on Arminianism not Calvinism. Could we please stick to the subject

 

[Richard T]

Christ paid the penalty only for those who would believe and repent. The debt has been paid for fully, and there is no condemnation. If you are in Christ, God is never judging you for your sin, because Christ drank the cup of God’s wrath and He drank it to the dregs. There is no condemnation for those in Christ Jesus and that means on the final day and every day until then.

Most of the world will be eternally condemned to hell to pay for their own sins, so they could not have been paid for by Christ.

Many people teach of salvation as drowning in the sea, Christ throws the lifebuoy and it's up to person to hold it.
But salvation is us being dead at the bottom of the sea, and Christ has to mercifully jump in the water, save us and give us life.

Sinners cannot come to the presence of the Holy God, and are unable to save themselves. Our hearts are deceitful and wicked. We do not even know we need to be saved.

Then how is it that some hear and believe? Because God gave them the ears to hear, and a new heart, and the Holy Spirit produced faith in them.

As RC Sproul said, 'If God did sovereignly and eternally plan to save each and every person in this world, then, unquestionably, every person in this world would be saved. But the New Testament screams to the contrary that not everybody is saved.'

Yes, I know the reform position but fully disagree. Jesus took everyone's sins but you have to ask to be saved. Hell awaits those that do not ask. It is the same for the baptism of the Holy Spirit. If you don't seek and ask you you may not receive it as a Christian. At least you have salvation but youo don't have much power to help others. Same for those that do not practice laying on of hands for the sick or casting out devils. Failing to practice the bible is why many in the church have no power. Failing to believe that everyone can be saved limits your reach. No great reform evangelists since the 1800s. Why?

If you do not ask Jesus into your heart, you won't receive the forgiveness that is already provided. John 1:9 That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world. Everyone is lit toward God at birth. When they reject the gospel at the age of accountability, then Romans 1 applies, "their foolish heart is darkened." The Holy Spirit tugs at every heart, it is a shame that many reject. Also, resources of Christians do help. If we do not take up the "go into the world and preach the gospel" pray and do everything we can to assist others to be saved the results will show for the lack of effort. Jesus did his part, but few Chrisitans are going full speed. (I know i am not, but trying) . No stirring up of your gifts as Paul tells Timothy means less will be saved.

That is the core of the difference. I believe Christians make a difference with their walk because it is all over the bible. The 30, 60 or 100 fold, the good, acceptable and perfect will of God, the be strong and courageous. It is directed to Christians for more output. Weak Christians equal less output. Output is the Great Commission. Its a shame to waste all that Jesus did. That is why Paul prays we "comprehend" all the love, the power etc. Most don't get anywhere close. I am unchangeable on this. Pray without ceasing is for a reason. More salvations, more demonstration of the Holy Spirit, more success. Want to save more people, get healings and deliverances, fast and pray. Works do not save such Christians but they will receive more rewards. He who is wise wins souls. Wise equals effort. Sure I know that you still preach the gospel as you are not sure "which" people God wills to be saved. Try preaching the gospel believing anyone has the choice. I think it makes a difference. No disrespect, but that is how I read the word fo God and believe by the Holy Spirit.

 

[Ivan Hlavanda]

Yes, I know the reform position but fully disagree. Jesus took everyone's sins but you have to ask to be saved. Hell awaits those that do not ask. It is the same for the baptism of the Holy Spirit. If you don't seek and ask you you may not receive it as a Christian. At least you have salvation but youo don't have much power to help others. Same for those that do not practice laying on of hands for the sick or casting out devils. Failing to practice the bible is why many in the church have no power. Failing to believe that everyone can be saved limits your reach. No great reform evangelists since the 1800s. Why?

If you do not ask Jesus into your heart, you won't receive the forgiveness that is already provided. John 1:9 That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world. Everyone is lit toward God at birth. When they reject the gospel at the age of accountability, then Romans 1 applies, "their foolish heart is darkened." The Holy Spirit tugs at every heart, it is a shame that many reject. Also, resources of Christians do help. If we do not take up the "go into the world and preach the gospel" pray and do everything we can to assist others to be saved the results will show for the lack of effort. Jesus did his part, but few Chrisitans are going full speed. (I know i am not, but trying) . No stirring up of your gifts as Paul tells Timothy means less will be saved.

That is the core of the difference. I believe Christians make a difference with their walk because it is all over the bible. The 30, 60 or 100 fold, the good, acceptable and perfect will of God, the be strong and courageous. It is directed to Christians for more output. Weak Christians equal less output. Output is the Great Commission. Its a shame to waste all that Jesus did. That is why Paul prays we "comprehend" all the love, the power etc. Most don't get anywhere close. I am unchangeable on this. Pray without ceasing is for a reason. More salvations, more demonstration of the Holy Spirit, more success. Want to save more people, get healings and deliverances, fast and pray. Works do not save such Christians but they will receive more rewards. He who is wise wins souls. Wise equals effort. Sure I know that you still preach the gospel as you are not sure "which" people God wills to be saved. Try preaching the gospel believing anyone has the choice. I think it makes a difference. No disrespect, but that is how I read the word fo God and believe by the Holy Spirit.

OP said to stick to arminiasm, so I am going to respect that.

All I am going to say is that if Christ paid for your sins, then there is no sin on you, and therefore no condemnation.

 

[Clare73]

Hi Clare,
I see election/predestination as being 'corporate' not 'individual'. "He chose us IN HIM" Eph1:4. We are elect IN HIM. The Elect are those who by repentance & faith are IN HIM. Thus it is conditional.
Peace
Jeffrey

Paul disagrees with you in his presentation of election (9:8-24).
Read it carefully and fully.

See related Scriptures - Jn 15:16, Ro 8:29, 1 Co 4:7, 2 Th 2:13.

 

[Richard T]

OP said to stick to arminiasm, so I am going to respect that.

All I am going to say is that if Christ paid for your sins, then there is no sin on you, and therefore no condemnation.

Thanks, I saw that request after I posted. So you know I respect your beliefs and praise God for anyone who puts the kingdom first.

 

[FutureAndAHope]

Many people are looking for a viable alternative to Calvinism. I believe Evangelical Arminianism is that alternative. What it is can be viewed by the word 'FACTS'
F Freed will.
A Atonement for ALL.
C Conditional election.
T Total depravity.
S Security "in Christ".

It would seem to me to be more scriptural than the Calvinistic alternative.
Your thoughts?

I am not saying my view is perfect, but I have studied the Early Church Fathers (who believed in free will) and expounded scripture; have a read, it could help clarify some things The Way and Free Will