Evaluate this? "a caterpillar is not allowed to transform into a butterfly, he has to evolve it?"

[Gottservant]

Hi there,

So yes I am wary of just posting one argument to another, for Evolutionists to consider (they tend to bite anything, that is not rote learned Evolution): so I thought I would run this argument past you.

"The caterpillar is not allowed to transform into a butterfly, the caterpillar has to evolve it"

I mean, where do we get evidence, that the caterpillar became a butterfly through trial and error? I just don't see it?

I am not saying it is a killer argument (I don't know how appropriate it is), but on the other hand, the only way out seems to be "the butterfly knew its eggs would become caterpillars, because of a mutation" (I don't know about you, but that is about as weak as an argument can get!)

 

[OldWiseGuy]

You can be assured that evolutionists will have an answer.

 

[Radagast]

"The caterpillar is not allowed to transform into a butterfly, the caterpillar has to evolve it"

The caterpillar is a larval butterfly.

 

[SkyWriting]

Hi there,

So yes I am wary of just posting one argument to another, for Evolutionists to consider (they tend to bite anything, that is not rote learned Evolution): so I thought I would run this argument past you.

"The caterpillar is not allowed to transform into a butterfly, the caterpillar has to evolve it"

I mean, where do we get evidence, that the caterpillar became a butterfly through trial and error? I just don't see it?

I am not saying it is a killer argument (I don't know how appropriate it is), but on the other hand, the only way out seems to be "the butterfly knew its eggs would become caterpillars, because of a mutation" (I don't know about you, but that is about as weak as an argument can get!)

It sounds like awesome engineering and design to me. Evolution still rules logic, Thank God.

 

[Gottservant]

The caterpillar is a larval butterfly.

Ok, sure, but how did that "evolve"?

Where is the trial and error?

It happened three ways at once?

 

[Radagast]

Ok, sure, but how did that "evolve"?

Where is the trial and error?

It happened three ways at once?

Huh?

 

[Gottservant]

Huh?

Three ways: larvae, caterpillar, cocoon/cocoon, butterfly,larvae/butterfly,larvae,caterpillar?

The trial and error? Where is it?

Maybe it was mutated four ways at once: larvae, caterpillar, cocoon, butterfly?

 

[The Barbarian]

The confusion of creationists is in imagining it all happened at once.

Annu Rev Entomol. 2002;47:467-500.
Endocrine insights into the evolution of metamorphosis in insects.
Truman JW1, Riddiford LM.
Abstract
This review explores the roles of ecdysone and juvenile hormone (JH) in the evolution of complete metamorphosis and how metamorphosis, in turn, has impacted endocrine signaling. JH is a key player in the evolution of metamorphosis because it can act on embryos from more basal insect groups to suppress morphogenesis and cause premature differentiation, functions needed for transforming the transitional pronymphal stage of hemimetabolous insects into a functional larval stage. In the ancestral condition, imaginal-related growth is then delayed until JH finally disappears during the last larval instar. In the more derived groups of the Holometabola, selective tissues have escaped this JH suppression to form early-growing imaginal discs. We discuss how complete metamorphosis may have influenced the molecular aspects of both ecdysone and JH signaling.

...

J Insect Sci. 2019 Mar 1;19(2). pii: 19. doi: 10.1093/jisesa/iez025.
The Immature Stages, Biology, and Phylogenetic Relationships of Rotunda rotundapex (Lepidoptera: Bombycidae).
Lin RJ1, Braby MF2,3, Hsu YF1.
Author information
Abstract
The life history, morphology, and biology of the immature stages and phylogenetic relationships of Rotunda rotundapex (Miyata & Kishida, 1990) are described and illustrated for the first time. The species is univoltine: eggs hatch in spring (March or April) and the life cycle from egg to adult is completed in about 3 wk, with larvae developing rapidly on young leaves of the host plants, Morus australis and to a lesser extent Broussonetia monoica (Moraceae), and adults emerging in April-May. Eggs are laid in clusters on twigs of the host plant, are covered by scales during female oviposition, and remain in diapause for the remainder of the year (i.e., for 10-11 mo). Larvae (all instars) are unique among the Bombycidae in that they lack a horn on abdominal segment 8. A strongly supported molecular phylogeny based on six genes (5.0 Kbp: COI, EF-1α, RpS5, CAD, GAPDH, and wgl) representing seven genera of Bombycinae from the Old World revealed that Rotunda is a distinct monotypic lineage sister to Bombyx. This phylogenetic position, together with morphological data of the immature stages (egg and larval chaetotaxy), supports the current systematic classification in which the species rotundapex has been placed in a separate genus (Rotunda) from Bombyx in which it was previously classified.

...

The Types and Stages of Insect Metamorphosis
What is Metamorphosis? The Types and Stages of Insect Life

No magic. Just descent with modification.