Europeans: Do You Debate Muslims? Do You Speak Out Against Islam?

[Liza B.]

I'm honestly curious. It's a strange thing to me, how many Europeans seem drawn to debate Christians, particularly American Christians. Christianity does not seem like a threat in Europe at the moment. However, the most fundamental strand of Islam most certainly is.

You might have your own personal reasons for being led to debate Christians, and I accept that.

However....

I personally believe atheists, agnostics and unbelievers will never be led to debate Islam in the numbers they debate Christians because it's not the Real Deal, not even if fundamental Islam is eroding their culture right from under them--which seems to be the case, actually.

Thoughts?

 

[Tolworth John]

Do You Debate Muslims? Do You Speak Out Against Islam?
Speaking against islam is not the answer. Would you respond to an atheist denouncing Christianity?

The need is to introduce muslims to Jesus.

 

[Liza B.]

Do You Debate Muslims? Do You Speak Out Against Islam?
Speaking against islam is not the answer. Would you respond to an atheist denouncing Christianity?

The need is to introduce muslims to Jesus.

Yes, I do and have speak to atheists and Muslims about Christ.

I'm asking this from an atheist's viewpoint. Why would they choose to counter Christianity from Europe, when it's on the wane or nearly dead in Europe, and Islam is clearly....not?

 

[Tanj]

I'm honestly curious. It's a strange thing to me, how many Europeans seem drawn to debate Christians, particularly American Christians. Christianity does not seem like a threat in Europe at the moment. However, the most fundamental strand of Islam most certainly is.

You might have your own personal reasons for being led to debate Christians, and I accept that.

However....

I personally believe atheists, agnostics and unbelievers will never be led to debate Islam in the numbers they debate Christians because it's not the Real Deal, not even if fundamental Islam is eroding their culture right from under them--which seems to be the case, actually.

Thoughts?

It's not clear to me where you are getting this from. What evidence do you have that Europeans debate American Christians more than Muslims?

 

[Liza B.]

It's not clear to me where you are getting this from. What evidence do you have that Europeans debate American Christians more than Muslims?

My experience with them...from asking them, actually.

 

[Tanj]

My experience with them...from asking them, actually.

How many of the 500 million Europeans have you talked to?

OK, that was a bit harsh, let me re-phrase. What you have here is observational bias. You have interacted with a handful of Europeans who "counter" Christianity by posting on anonymous internet discussion boards, and have extrapolated that to infer that Europeans debate American Christians more than Muslims.

It may or may not be true, but the limited anecdotal evidence you are providing does not support the assertion.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

It may or may not be true

It's truth.
Scripture supports the truth, and verifies it.

"The world loves its own" , so is not as likely to debate against the worldly ;
and
fear may be a factor(though not necessarily),
and
"the world hates the truth", so more likely to debate against the truth...

and so on.

This has always been truth, just as written, and always reliable overall.

 

[High Fidelity]

Depends on the situation. On the subject of faith, if it happens, then I'll challenge anyone's beliefs.

Just because someone calls themselves Christian doesn't mean they are, or they're saved. The majority of people that profess Christ will go to Hell. Scripture says as much.

 

[Liza B.]

How many of the 500 million Europeans have you talked to?

OK, that was a bit harsh, let me re-phrase. What you have here is observational bias. You have interacted with a handful of Europeans who "counter" Christianity by posting on anonymous internet discussion boards, and have extrapolated that to infer that Europeans debate American Christians more than Muslims.

It may or may not be true, but the limited anecdotal evidence you are providing does not support the assertion.

Wouldn't be too hard to figure out, would it? We could go to the most active Islamic forums and find out how many atheists/unbelievers ask very hard, challenging questions of the Muslims there, and are from Europe. I think not that difficult at all, really.

 

[Liza B.]

Depends on the situation. On the subject of faith, if it happens, then I'll challenge anyone's beliefs.

Just because someone calls themselves Christian doesn't mean they are, or they're saved. The majority of people that profess Christ will go to Hell. Scripture says as much.

Kudos. From what I understand of your laws, that takes some chutzpah. And you're right, there's probably a lot more labeling of "Christianity" without true saving faith in your nation than there is even here--and there's plenty here. I just read that some so-called Christian leader was asking his flock to pray for something patently anti-Christian in regards to one of your notable UK figures...I won't go into details, you probably know about it. In the UK, as in many places here, Social Justice Jesus is Lord, not the Jesus who reigns. It's tragic, but there it is. Jesus was never political.

Anyway...I digress.

 

[High Fidelity]

Kudos. From what I understand of your laws, that takes some chutzpah. And you're right, there's probably a lot more labeling of "Christianity" without true saving faith in your nation than there is even here--and there's plenty here. I just read that some so-called Christian leader was asking his flock to pray for something patently anti-Christian in regards to one of your notable UK figures...I won't go into details, you probably know about it. In the UK, as in many places here, Social Justice Jesus is Lord, not the Jesus who reigns. It's tragic, but there it is. Jesus was never political.

Anyway...I digress.

The laws aren't really an issue, really. Consider people like Richard Dawkins and Christopher Hitchens; to my knowledge, they weren't challenged legally by the state at any point and they were quite inflammatory to the beliefs of multiple faiths.

A lot of places are trying to be more inclusive and it was surprising to see that happen amongst churches. Within the Church of England there are still strong rifts and disagreements about ordained women, for example, as it was seen as socially progressive but theologically regressive to many, whilst a lot of people welcomed it.

 

[Liza B.]

The laws aren't really an issue, really. Consider people like Richard Dawkins and Christopher Hitchens; to my knowledge, they weren't challenged legally by the state at any point and they were quite inflammatory to the beliefs of multiple faiths.

A lot of places are trying to be more inclusive and it was surprising to see that happen amongst churches. Within the Church of England there are still strong rifts and disagreements about ordained women, for example, as it was seen as socially progressive but theologically regressive to many, whilst a lot of people welcomed it.

Yes, well, Hitchens and Dawkins were inflammatory toward Christianity, so that was fine, yes? Meanwhile, Christians don't have quite the same freedom to speak in the UK, do they?

 

[Tanj]

It's truth.
Scripture supports the truth, and verifies it.

"The world loves its own" , so is not as likely to debate against the worldly ;
and
fear may be a factor(though not necessarily),
and
"the world hates the truth", so more likely to debate against the truth...

and so on.

This has always been truth, just as written, and always reliable overall.

Could you provide the actual scripture?

Wouldn't be too hard to figure out, would it? We could go to the most active Islamic forums and find out how many atheists/unbelievers ask very hard, challenging questions of the Muslims there, and are from Europe. I think not that difficult at all, really.

Indeed, seems like a job for someone that has professed to be...

honestly curious.

 

[Liza B.]

Could you provide the actual scripture?



Indeed, seems like a job for someone that has professed to be...

Good thought. I found this forum from the UK, for Muslims. From the UK now....let that sink in. Most users EVER online: 7,593. Compare and contrast with this forum.

Forums - Ummah.com - Muslim Forum

 

[Liza B.]

Could you provide the actual scripture?



Indeed, seems like a job for someone that has professed to be...

Here is a more popular Islamic board with more members. I don't see many atheists asking them questions just from what I'm seeing thus far:

Clarifications about Islam

So in addition to my anecdotal evidence, and the evidence other Christians cited from the Bible as to why unbelievers don't bother with Islam, here are Islamic forums which are largely left alone by atheists/agnostic, even though by all accounts Islam is making much, much more of a social mark on Europe than Christianity. Isn't that something?

 

[Tanj]

Well, I was going to give you kudos for going out and finding something, but then you said this:

and the evidence other Christians cited from the Bible as to why unbelievers don't bother with Islam

I will drop to my knees and repent right now if you can provide a single reference to Islam from the bible.

 

[Tolworth John]

Why would they choose to counter Christianity from Europe, when it's on the wane or nearly dead in Europe, and Islam is

Europe is run by atheist or by nominal christians all of whom believe in being politically correct.
Thatmeans that minority views cannot be critised.

Athesits are faced with a problem. They see islam as an ally against Christianity but also realise it is as against them as it is against Christianity.

As to whether Christianity is on the decline or whether nominal, social christians are leaving Christianity I don't know, but Christianity has been declared dead many times and is still here.

 

[High Fidelity]

Yes, well, Hitchens and Dawkins were inflammatory toward Christianity, so that was fine, yes? Meanwhile, Christians don't have quite the same freedom to speak in the UK, do they?

They picked faults in all faiths, Christianity and Islam being the two primary targets.

 

[Par5]

Yes, well, Hitchens and Dawkins were inflammatory toward Christianity, so that was fine, yes? Meanwhile, Christians don't have quite the same freedom to speak in the UK, do they?

Yes, they do. Where do you get these ideas?

 

[Par5]

Europe is run by atheist or by nominal christians all of whom believe in being politically correct.
Thatmeans that minority views cannot be critised.

Athesits are faced with a problem. They see islam as an ally against Christianity but also realise it is as against them as it is against Christianity.

As to whether Christianity is on the decline or whether nominal, social christians are leaving Christianity I don't know, but Christianity has been declared dead many times and is still here.

I don't know what religion if any, Europe's political leaders adhere to and neither do you, so why do you say such a thing?
Where do you get the idea that atheists see Islam as an ally against Christianity? That is nonsense.
I will agree that in some cases there are politicians who spout politically correct nonsense, but the vast majority of the European electorate see through such nonsense.
There is nothing wrong with protecting minorities, but doing so does not mean minorities cannot be criticised.
As for Christianity being on the decline, that certainly seems to be the case in the UK, but it is Christianity that has to ask itself why that is because I know that in the UK there is nothing in place to prevent anyone being a Christian or from practising that faith. I also don't know of anything in place in other European countries designed to hinder Christians in the practice of their faith.