Europe and Iran

[Jermayn]

Thing is we are talking about the God of Abraham, so diverting attention to Jesus is not addressing the point.

First of all, diverting to Jesus is exactly what you SHOULD be doing, since there's no salvation apart from him. Just say what you are trying to say timothyu, that you think people who practice Judaism and Islam will be saved without Jesus. God's word says your wrong.

 

[timothyu]

Just say what you are trying to say timothyu, that you think people who practice Judaism and Islam will be saved without Jesus. God's word says your wrong.

No that is your off topic point.

 

[The Barbarian]

You understand why there's an old and new testament in the Bible, right?

It's your claim that no one in the OT actually worshiped the God who spoke to Abraham? How so?

 

[Jermayn]

It's your claim that no one in the OT actually worshiped the God who spoke to Abraham? How so?

I didn't say people in the old testament times didn't follow God. The ones that obeyed his commandments for that time period did. Jesus was the fulfillment of the old covenant however. Animal sacrifice is no longer required, along with many other requirements of the old testament. Now we worship the God of Abraham through faith in his only begotten son, Jesus. If you're trying to worship him any other way, you're not worshiping the God of Abraham, and that is stated multiple times in scripture.

 

[The Barbarian]

I didn't say people in the old testament times didn't follow God. The ones that obeyed his commandments for that time period did. Jesus was the fulfillment of the old covenant however.

Yes, but those in the OT who did not know Jesus or acknowledge Him, still worshiped the God of Abraham, as Jews and Muslims do today.

Now we worship the God of Abraham through faith in his only begotten son, Jesus.

Now we do, because we know Him. Not everyone does, although they may know of the God who spoke to Abraham. We should never deny anything that is holy and true in other faiths.

God isn't locked in a closet in our clubhouse.

 

[Jermayn]

Yes, but those in the OT who did not know Jesus or acknowledge Him, still worshiped the God of Abraham, as Jews and Muslims do today.



Now we do, because we know Him. Not everyone does, although they may know of the God who spoke to Abraham. We should never deny anything that is holy and true in other faiths.

God isn't locked in a closet in our clubhouse.

Yes, well, worshiping him the way they did before Jesus was born amounts to nothing today. If you deny Jesus is the Christ, you have no path to salvation, period. Also, Jesus IS the God who spoke to Abraham. Do you think Jesus was just some guy that did good works? Are you denying his divinity? His word states that if you don't have the Son, you don't have the Father. It feels great to reason that God is going to just let everyone into Heaven in the end, but it's just not true. The only one locked in a closet is the one who thinks there's a different savior besides Jesus Christ, and he's the only key that will release them from that closet. It's stated over and over in the Bible that Jesus is the only path to the Father. That's HIS words, not mine. I choose to believe it rather than lean on my own understanding and you should do the same.

Proverbs 3:5 Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.

 

[The Barbarian]

Yes, well, worshiping him the way they did before Jesus was born amounts to nothing today.

That is your own understanding, not God's.

Proverbs 3:5 Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.

Jesus told His people it was better to be a heretic Samaritan who had charity for his fellow man, than a religiously-correct Levite who did not.

After all, He promised that salvation would depend on your charity, not your theology. When people try to push others away from God, they only succeed in separating themselves from Him.

 

[Jermayn]

That is your own understanding, not God's.

Proverbs 3:5 Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.

Jesus told His people it was better to be a heretic Samaritan who had charity for his fellow man, than a religiously-correct Levite who did not.

After all, He promised that salvation would depend on your charity, not your theology. When people try to push others away from God, they only succeed in separating themselves from Him.

He taught that he was the only way to salvation. If you deny him, all the work, charity, and whatever else you want to throw in amount to nothing. If you are teaching people it's OK to deny Jesus, that's called the spirit of anti-christ. Again, his words, not mine.

 

[timothyu]

that's called the spirit of anti-christ.

Jesus taught to put the will of the Father before the will of man. To not do so is 'the spirit of anti-christ'.

 

[Jermayn]

Jesus taught to put the will of the Father before the will of man. To not do so is 'the spirit of anti-christ'.

Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, for many false prophets have gone out into the world. By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you heard was coming and now is in the world already (1 John 4:1-3).

 

[timothyu]

Jesus said His Father's Kingdom (both world and governance) will come. This is what a Messiah brings. To deny that is to go against the teachings of Jesus and the Father. It is important not to overlook that in favour of another. It is pointless to praise Jesus without adhering to His message. and Gospel of the Kingdom.

 

[Jermayn]

Jesus said His Father's Kingdom (both world and governance) will come. This is what a Messiah brings. To deny that is to go against the teachings of Jesus and the Father. It is important not to overlook that in favour of another. It is pointless to praise Jesus without adhering to His message. and Gospel of the Kingdom.

Yes, but how does this further any argument you've been trying to make about Muslims, Jews, or any other faith that denies Jesus as the Christ? The will of the Father is for everyone to come to him through Jesus, because that's the only path to him.

 

[timothyu]

Yes, but how does this further any argument you've been trying to make about Muslims, Jews

All I said was they worship the same God of Abraham. How they go about it is up to them. What God's plan for them is, is up to Him.

 

[Jermayn]

All I said was they worship the same God of Abraham. How they go about it is up to them. What God's plan for them is, is up to Him.

I think the Bible is clear about what happens to those who deny Jesus.

 

[timothyu]

I think the Bible is clear about what happens to those who deny Jesus.

Deny Jesus or deny His Gospel of the Kingdom?

 

[Jermayn]

Deny Jesus or deny His Gospel of the Kingdom?

You can't deny the Gospel of his Kingdom if you deny him outright in the first place.

 

[timothyu]

You can't deny the Gospel of his Kingdom if you deny him outright in the first place.

??

 

[Jermayn]

??

If you deny Jesus outright, it's a given that you also deny his Gospel and his Kingdom (and the Father). You can't accept the message someone gives if you deny the person giving the message.

 

[timothyu]

If you deny Jesus outright, it's a given that you also deny his Gospel and his Kingdom (and the Father). You can't accept the message someone gives if you deny the person giving the message.

True enough but Jesus was convinced the message was more important than the man.

Luke 4:43 And he said unto them, I must preach the kingdom of God to other cities also: for therefore am I sent.

 

[Jermayn]

True enough but Jesus was convinced the message was more important than the man.

Luke 4:43 And he said unto them, I must preach the kingdom of God to other cities also: for therefore am I sent.

His message was the he came to die for our sins and that he was the only path to the Father. The message was about the man.