Eternity?

[david_x]

I guess I just don't "get" the idea of worship.

An egotistical person demands worship or respect because he or she is weak, has insecurities, and is prideful.

Something like an omnipotent god- I don't see how it would have use of worship. Would this god's happiness level be increased by mortals worshiping it? If so, then its happiness is partially dependent on mortals, and it is weak. If its happiness level is not increased by worship, then why bother worshiping it? It would be like a bunch of people standing around a trillionaire handing him $1 bills.

If God can be benefited from worship, then he is not God. If worship only benefits humans doing the worshiping, then worship is all about the self. If worship benefits neither, then why do it?

-Lyn

An egotistical man demands worship, but only a great man is truly worshiped.

 

[Penumbra]

An egotistical man demands worship, but only a great man is truly worshiped.

But that great person gets no benefit from that worship, as s/he is above such things.

-Lyn

 

[david_x]

But that great person gets no benefit from that worship, as s/he is above such things.

-Lyn

No, said person can get a lot out of this worship. Worship/praise/adoration are not bad things to be ignored although they may affect the one who is not modest. These are noble things, I would relish in gratefulness should someone speak well of me.

 

[bricklayer]

God has no need or gain.
The benefit of worship is mine.

 

[Penumbra]

No, said person can get a lot out of this worship. Worship/praise/adoration are not bad things to be ignored although they may affect the one who is not modest. These are noble things, I would relish in gratefulness should someone speak well of me.

Yes, but you and everyone else, even great people, have weaknesses, desires, and are somewhat dependent. So, it makes sense that you or I are happier when we are praised and less happy when we are criticized.

Something so perfect would ideally not have such a weakness. We feel feelings of happiness when other people look favorably upon us because they are relative equals. If ants were to worship us, what would we care?

What you're describing is a being that has its happiness increased by being worshiped or adored. Are you implying that a perfect god would have his happiness levels partially determined by mortals worshiping it?

-Lyn

 

[Penumbra]

God has no need or gain.
The benefit of worship is mine.

So ultimately it is about the self? That's what many religions teach, and it is the least illogical out of the options as far as I see it.

-Lyn

 

[bricklayer]

It's not about self, it's about Self.

 

[david_x]

Yes, but you and everyone else, even great people, have weaknesses, desires, and are somewhat dependent. So, it makes sense that you or I are happier when we are praised and less happy when we are criticized.

Something so perfect would ideally not have such a weakness. We feel feelings of happiness when other people look favorably upon us because they are relative equals. If ants were to worship us, what would we care?

What you're describing is a being that has its happiness increased by being worshiped or adored. Are you implying that a perfect god would have his happiness levels partially determined by mortals worshiping it?

-Lyn

Not at all, God is perfect. He does not need our worship, that does not mean he doesn't enjoy it.

 

[david_x]

It's not about self, it's about Self.

I'm pretty sure that heresy...

 

[Penumbra]

It's not about self, it's about Self.

Sorry, but that's one of those kind of vague spiritual statements.

Can you elaborate? Are you implying one-ness, panentheism? Or something different?

Not at all, God is perfect. He does not need our worship, that does not mean he doesn't enjoy it.

Why does he enjoy it? He makes little critters infinitely below him, and is happy when they praise him regardless of what he does?

I think this is truly a case of man making god in his own image. Humans like praise, and construct a deity that likes praise.

-Lyn

 

[bricklayer]

I meant to imply that, in my opinion, you were close.

The universe does make the most sense from a self-centered point of view.
It's just that, again in my opinion, we're not the self it's centered arround.
We're creatures, creations, characters, and it's not about us.
We're not necessary, and most of us have no clue.

To me, my faith is what I'm left to believe, after the other ideas have been des-proven.
So, for that matter, we all have faith.
The only difference is in what.

 

[Penumbra]

God has no need or gain.
The benefit of worship is mine.

It's not about self, it's about Self.

I meant to imply that, in my opinion, you were close.

The universe does make the most sense from a self-centered point of view.
It's just that, again in my opinion, we're not the self it's centered arround.
We're creatures, creations, characters, and it's not about us.
We're not necessary, and most of us have no clue.

To me, my faith is what I'm left to believe, after the other ideas have been des-proven.
So, for that matter, we all have faith.
The only difference is in what.

Now you have me confused.

First you say that God has no need of worship (which, hypothetically, I find logical), and state that the benefit is all yours.

So I clarify to point out then that worship is about the self, not God. Your response is that it's about Self, not self. So I ask what you mean by Self.

Now you're saying that the universe is self-centered, and imply that it's centered around God, which leads me to believe that by "Self" you meant God.

So if it's all about God, yet God has no need of nor gain from worship, then what's the point? Earlier you said that the benefit is all yours.

-Lyn

 

[bricklayer]

Exactly

God's glory is what it is. It does not increase or decrease.
The revelation of His glory is His purpose for His creation.

God is the benefactor, I am the beneficiary.

To worship is to be intimate with God, it is the fulfillment of me, as a man.

Our worship is not God's gain, it's ours.

 

[david_x]

Why does he enjoy it? He makes little critters infinitely below him, and is happy when they praise him regardless of what he does?

-Lyn

I'm not sure why you brought it back up, but I will address it again. Great men are the only ones to receive true praise, God does not get praise 'regardless' of what he does.

 

[Penumbra]

I'm not sure why you brought it back up, but I will address it again. Great men are the only ones to receive true praise, God does not get praise 'regardless' of what he does.

What would god have to do for you not to praise it?

-Lyn

 

[bricklayer]

For me to not praise God, God would have to leave me unaware of Him.

 

[david_x]

What would god have to do for you not to praise it?

-Lyn

There is a huge list, that being the antithesis of what God is. God is Love, so if He hates then I would not praise Him. He is Just and Merciful, if He is ever unjust or unmerciful, then I would not praise him. Etc.

 

[Penumbra]

There is a huge list, that being the antithesis of what God is. God is Love, so if He hates then I would not praise Him.

God hated Esau.

God hardens the hearts of people to turn against him so that he may showcase his power and wrath, which could be considered a form of hate.

He is Just and Merciful, if He is ever unjust or unmerciful, then I would not praise him. Etc.

What would God have to do to be considered unjust or unmerciful, in your eyes?

-Lyn

 

[bricklayer]

God's purpose for His creation is the revelation of His glory.

God's glory is His holiness.

God's holiness is the inviolate balance of His infinite perfections.
It's everything about Him.
Anything less than everything would be a violation of His holiness.

It's what He hates and loves.
It's His judgment and His mercy.
It's His grace and His wrath, etc.
It's the inviolate balance of His characteristics and attributes.

This, to me, explains His purpose for sin and redemption from sin.

 

[david_x]

God hated Esau.

Uh, false.

God hardens the hearts of people to turn against him so that he may showcase his power and wrath, which could be considered a form of hate.

Also unfounded.

What would God have to do to be considered unjust or unmerciful, in your eyes?

Kill the innocent. (Now, not in Hebrew times.)
IDk, many such things.