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Chosen for what?Yes, several passages make it clear to me that
God chooses His elect, they don't choose Him.
The elect's free-will choices come later
when they choose whether or not to co-operate.
BTW, the Lord makes it very difficult to NOT co-operate.
But, IMO, this is possible.
How about reading my thread on the purpose of election an trying to refute the facts.Election unto Salvation
Election unto Salvation
Election unto Salvation
Election unto Salvation
41 verses about Election unto Salvation
Election unto Salvation
Now, if you will read instead of just posting out of reaction, you'll see, election unto salvation is taught.
Actually, not.And if these aren't enough, I have a ton more to support it.
Haven't you read the parable of the soils?There is no ceasing to believe and/or rebelling with believers.
How about reading my thread on the purpose of election an trying to refute the facts.
I have a thread in "debate with a Calvinist" under "Semper Reformada" about the purpose of election here: The purpose of Election
Actually, not.
The list of "41 verses about election unto salvation" contains exactly NONE that even speak of salvation. All do speak of being chosen, but the purpose isn't stated.
In my thread, I provide examples of who has been chosen (elected), and it's obvious that none of them were chosen for salvation.
Let's begin with the most important one, or The Chosen One, Jesus Christ.
Well, apparently I did. Where is the refutation? Nowhere to be seen.9 posts total. Wow! You sure shut us Calvinists up didn't you.
I did. And I quoted Scripture as well. And...no refutations from Scripture.Say what you will.
Silly. Why is the day dark? Clouds. What's above the clouds? A shining sun.Keep in mind you are arguing with a person who is committed that election of apostles is corporate/group election. That's as if someone is telling you that when sun shines during the day it is dark outside.
Why in the world would I create a thread if I wasn't anticipating discussion?I propose that there is no discussion with that person.
Why haven't the reformed even tried to correct what I posted? All I've seen is attacks for my views, which, btw, ARE supported by Scripture. Which I provided.Nor to anybody who is arguing alongside him and not correcting him.
Ok, agreed. It's definitely possible with parts of the Word of God.Haven't you read the parable of the soils?
Luke 8:12-13
12 Those along the path are the ones who hear, and then the devil comes and takes away the word from their hearts, so that they may not believe and be saved.
13 Those on the rocky ground are the ones who receive the word with joy when they hear it, but they have no root. They believe for a while, but in the time of testing they fall away.
In v.12 Jesus makes the point that those who believe will be saved. In v.13, He makes the point that some believe for a while, but then fall away.
What a born-again believer cannot ever lose is their salvation. Because they are sealed with the Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance for the day of redemption, per Eph 1:13,14.Ok, agreed. It's definitely possible with parts of the Word of God.
But I don't believe a born-again believer can ever lose his/her faith. "sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise" Eph. 1:13. Once you're through that door, you're on the green pastures
You've already seen (and rejected) the 15 NT verses which (are supposed to) teach us:So, when is one given eternal life?
The answer to that determines when eternal security begins for the person.
Nope. None of these, or any other, teach that one must endure until the end of their life to receive eternal life.You've already seen (and rejected) the 15 NT verses which (are supposed to) teach us:
One must endure in his/her faith until the end of his/her life
to receive eternal life!
This is only one group of NT verses that disqualify OSAS.
I just gave the truth. Straight from Jesus' mouth.All of this means that salvation is a process, which can end up in success or failure.
Thou must reconcile all of the NT passages to come up with the truth.
Opinion noted. But rejected.Thou does not, the pastors do not, most of the sheep do not.
Therefore, most have no idea what the truth really is.
Whatever done did happen to everyone?Nope. None of these, or any other, teach that one must endure until the end of their life to receive eternal life.
Such an idea directly opposes what Jesus taught in very plain language in John 3:15,16, 5:24 and 6:47. Those who believe HAVE, as in CURRENT POSSESSION, eternal life.
What does this question mean?Whatever done did happen to everyone?
Ditto.Musta grown fed up with your total nonsense.
How do you know?BTW, you don't understand what "believe" really means in the NT.
If so "obvious", how come we NEVER find these phrases anywhere in the Bible:100+ NT verses warn that ... true saving belief =
heart belief (not intellectual) + deep faith + solid trust + obedience
+ repenting so as to get rid of the sin in one's life.
This is obviously what the NT teaches!
Yes, those who cannot defend their claims, etc should ignore me. Because I will ask for Scriptural evidence that supports their claims, etc.Yes, it is advisable that everyone ignore this dangerous guy!
I.E. dangerous to those who can't read and understand the NT for themselves.
E.G. IF one can understand what Paul is warning in Romans 6,
he/she is well on their way to understanding the NT.
My extra wording is to try to help believers understandIf so "obvious", how come we NEVER find these phrases anywhere in the Bible:
1. "true saving belief"
2. "heart belief (not intellectual)
3. "deep faith"
4. "solid trust"
5. repenting gets rid of the sin in one's life.
I’m game. Please list the 100 verses you mentioned.My extra wording is to try to help believers understand
what's required to actually having saving faith.
John's "believe" is a joke of a translation ...
IMO, most translators have NOT understood that
"pisteou" has a different meaning in the NT than it does in the secular world.
Also, they tried to translate it w/o paraphrasing it.
John's "believe" is a joke of a translation ...
because it obviously does NOT distinguish between
a very shallow intellectual belief and a very deep belief.
The rest of the NT makes it very clear what kind of belief one must have,
which includes strong faith, strong trust, obedience out of love for Jesus.
He said 3 times in John 14 ... "those who love Me will obey Me".
And who goes to heaven who does NOT love Jesus?
Of course, I could post about 100 more NT verses that prove the above.
BTW, all of this is written for others, not for you.
Because you have always been hopeless, and continue to be so.
Right...another added word, "actually". Nothing is required to have saving faith. God has already provided everything necessary for saving faith for everyone. It's just that many either aren't interested, or actively resist the Holy Spirit and His ministry of conviction. But God has already revealed Himself to everyone so that no one has an excuse. Rom 1:19-21.My extra wording is to try to help believers understand
what's required to actually having saving faith.
Now, how would anyone know that? Were you able to interview John to determine first hand what he "actually" meant? Sure.John's "believe" is a joke of a translation ...
IMO, most translators have NOT understood that
"pisteou" has a different meaning in the NT than it does in the secular world.
Can you show anywhere in the Bible that distinguishes between these supposed differences? If not, it's just another opinion.Also, they tried to translate it w/o paraphrasing it.
John's "believe" is a joke of a translation ...
because it obviously does NOT distinguish between
a very shallow intellectual belief and a very deep belief.
Yet, the Bible is clear about one man who asked Jesus to heal his son and then said to Jesus, "I believe, help my unbelief". So, how deep was his faith? Or how intellectual?The rest of the NT makes it very clear what kind of belief one must have,
which includes strong faith, strong trust, obedience out of love for Jesus.
Where does the phrase in bold say anything about believe?He said 3 times in John 14 ... "those who love Me will obey Me".
And who goes to heaven who does NOT love Jesus?
Oh, I'm sure.Of course, I could post about 100 more NT verses that prove the above.
No, sir! Eph 1:13,14 teaches that having believed, one is sealed with the Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance for the day of redemption, as God's own possession.
Yes that is a fact. The Holy Spirit is part of our inheritance. We are heirs of the Father. co-heirs with Christ. We are God’s children! We have changed ownership. Bought with Christ’s blood.No, sir! Eph 1:13,14 teaches that having believed, one is sealed with the Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance for the day of redemption, as God's own possession.
Yes, of course ...
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