Eternal torment is not a Bible doctrine (2)

[joep222]

Actually, eternal Hell is a Biblical doctrine.


Mark 9:47-48 And if your eye causes you to sin, tear it out. It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye than with two eyes to be thrown into hell, (48) 'where their worm does not die and the fire is not quenched.'

Revelation 14:10-11 he also will drink the wine of God's wrath, poured full strength into the cup of his anger, and he will be tormented with fire and sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. (11) And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever, and they have no rest, day or night, these worshipers of the beast and its image, and whoever receives the mark of its name."

 

[LutheranMafia]

You have that backwards..There are the 1% or 2% that are good and the rest are to be penalized with everlasting destruction!

On reflection I have to point out the distinction between the first resurrection and the second resurrection. What you are saying is true of the first resurrection which only involve the "firstfruits", but it does not apply to the second resurrection.

 

[strangertoo]

That's a TRANSLATION by sinners which makes no sense alongfside the rest of scripture, so READ ALL the scripture and then realise that ISN'T the ORIGINAL meaning but a fake by sinners who want to scare folks into the divided churches of shameful sinners still not freeing themselves from Satan's temptations to abuse others with sin...

1 John 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil

So actually that's just a mistranslation, as the rest of scripture proves , as is discussed extensively in this thread [and others in parallel here]... so please READ the threads BEFORE wasting your time and other folks time with repeating the nonsense already written because folks get deceived by Satan in the religion they would like to think is of Jesus -Rev 13-3-4, 2Thess 2, Ezek 28

all are released from 'hell' ['sheol' in Hebrew, 'hades' in Greek ] as Jesus says, and then it is destroyed along with death, no more death, no more hell, so clearly it is not eternal ... unsurprising as we know time is created as an integral part of the space-time universe , and so ends with this universe when men move on to the new earth of scriptural promise of God ...

Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire.

Note that God says there will be no more death after a second death frees men from sin once more , men who sinned for two lives then want to die when they realise the shame of abusing others for so long as sinners...

Revelation 9:6 And in those days shall men seek death, and shall not find it; and shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them.

so the translation is woeful, deliberately false for sake of Satanic lies about sin never being destroyed as is Jesus' task ... the word root 'aion-' from which we get the word 'aeon' for an age , is mistranslated by sinners as 'eternity'... an age, an 'aeon' , is a long time, but indeed CANNOT be infinite ...

1 John 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

we know that sin ends and all suffering ends and God's mercy endures to all time, all proving the lie of sinners in their altering the meaning of scripture for the evil of Satan in man's religion deceiving the whole world -Rev 13:3-4- bar a few saints who alone follow Jesus' commandment of Love, no more sin -Jude 1:14, Matt 7:14, Rev 7:3-8 whilst ALL sinners are destroyed in the wrath of God, end of THIS world ...

 

[Hammster]

MOD HAT ON

This thread has hon through a clean up. Some good posts had to be deleted along with the bad. Sorry.

But if y'all quit flaming, we won't have this problem.

MOD HAT OFF

 

[Timothew]

So how am I guilty of being profoundly incapable of accurately giving a synopsis of your beliefs? Just saying, "I'm rubber, your glue..." doesn't prove very much.


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BTW, I've been meaning to tell you that I found out that you definitely do not have religious OCD. Religious OCD apparently refers exclusively to people who obsess over condemning themselves.

Another thing that I've been meaning to bring up is a study of brain scans of people with strong political views. The study found that when hearing opposing points of view their brains would just shut down, the scan would show up almost completely black. In other words people with strong political views are kind of brain washed and are incapable of really hearing the other side. I'm certain that the same is true of strong religious points of view.

You seem to me to be a classic case of the above. I on the other hand do not have an a priori preconceptions to bias my point of view. I have no axe to grind. I treat the subject empirically, I take it as it comes and I am more than willing to embrace new or unfamiliar ideas if they seem to carry more weight. To prove it my view on the afterlife has been significantly altered by debating with Bob Ryan, so that now I believe that those in heaven are not aware of the passage of time. It is a significant shift in my point of view. Can you honestly say that your views have evolved in any way by your debating theology with anyone?

Absolutely. I used to hold the traditional view. When I first heard that there were other views, my initial reaction was to reject them. But a small part of me wondered if this could be true. So I looked into it, I asked God to show me the truth, whatever it was. And then I started asking questions. A lot of questions. And the answers I was getting from the traditionalists were less than logical. They were the answers that you get from people who have a vested interest in maintaining the status quo. Frankly, they were just like the answers that you get from people who are lying. They weren't lying, they were absolutely convinced that they were telling the gospel truth. But they were lied to, and they repeated what they were told, with absolute conviction.

Meanwhile, God was showing me from the scriptures every day that there is nothing like the hell that we sold.

So yes. I can absolutely say that my views have evolved in this debate.
And I can also assure you that this:

Another thing that I've been meaning to bring up is a study of brain scans of people with strong political views. The study found that when hearing opposing points of view their brains would just shut down, the scan would show up almost completely black. In other words people with strong political views are kind of brain washed and are incapable of really hearing the other side. I'm certain that the same is true of strong religious points of view.

applies to you much more than it applies to me. In fact, if this is true, it explains a lot about you.

 

[seeingeyes]

Another thing that I've been meaning to bring up is a study of brain scans of people with strong political views. The study found that when hearing opposing points of view their brains would just shut down, the scan would show up almost completely black. In other words people with strong political views are kind of brain washed and are incapable of really hearing the other side. I'm certain that the same is true of strong religious points of view.

People who have a lot of bumper stickers are the same way: Bumper stickers reveal link to road rage : Nature News

Just sayin'

 

[he-man]

On reflection I have to point out the distinction between the first resurrection and the second resurrection. What you are saying is true of the first resurrection which only involve the "firstfruits", but it does not apply to the second resurrection.

The same καταδικάζω is true of the general resurrection!
καταδικάζω penalized, Mat 12:37 For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be penalized.

Pro 13:3 He that keepeth his mouth keepeth his life: he that openeth wide his lips shall have destruction.

2Th 1:9 Who shall pay a penalty of everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;