eternal security

[conservativerepublican]

I had a question about eternal security. My church teaches that you have it while others don't. I was wondering what you guys thought and why.

 

[Bulldog]

I'd be surprised if there was a Baptist who did not belive in eternal security.

 

[Sword-In-Hand]

I don't believe in eternal security because I'm a Baptist, I believe in it because it's the truth. If anyone needs proof, PM me and I'll show ya

 

[jenptcfan]

Eternal security is not denomination specific. It's found in Jesus Christ--available to all.

 

[RED that's ME]

I believe in eternal security.


The Bible says no. One who is saved "has everlasting life, and . . . is passed from death unto life" (John 5:24). Eternal life by definition cannot be temporary. It is the present possession of all those who have truly trusted Christ. Romans 8:28-39 reveals clearly that there is nothing in the universe that can separate the elect from the love of God. The One who chose to save you "is able to keep you from stumbling, and to make you stand in the presence of His glory blameless with great joy" (Jude 24).

According to Scripture, people who profess to know Christ at one time but later deny Him were never really saved to begin with. First John 2:19 says, "They went out from us, but they were not really of us; for if they had been of us, they would have remained with us; but they went out, in order that it might be shown that they all are not of us." A true believer will never depart from the faith (Philippians 1:6), so those who do so are revealing that they were never truly saved (John 8:31; Hebrews 3:14).

Once you become born again, that’s it forever. We’re not talking about working hard to be a Christian; we’re talking about working hard to honor God as a Christian. I mean, just a simple analogy: if I’m born into a family, I don’t have to work to be a son. I’m a son! But, my parents would like me to be a good one, a useful one, a helpful one, a respectful one, an honoring one, and that’s what we’re talking about. We’re talking about living your Christian life to the glory and honor of God and to your own blessing and eternal reward.

Some people use the verses Revelation 3:16 to say you lose your salvation....
Well, first of all, you have to understand that he’s writing to a church, "To the angel of the church in Laodicea write: I know your deeds, you are neither cold nor hot. I would that you were cold or hot. So because you are lukewarm, and neither hot or cold, I will spit you out of my mouth.” What he is talking about here is not a Christian losing his salvation, but a church losing its witness. He’s talking about a church losing its impact, losing its identity--and it did. And if a church doesn’t take a strong stand, it’ll lose its power, it’ll lose its presence, it’ll lose its place in the community--that’s the issue.

Taken From: John MacArthur

True children of God are, according to the Scriptures, forever saved and eternally secure because:

1.They are born, again of incorruptible seed which yields the fruit of everlasting life (1 Peter 1:23).

2.They stand before God clothed in the imputed (credited) righteousness of Christ, and not in their own (2 Corinthians 5:21; Romans 5:19-21).

3.His sheep have been given eternal life-they shall never perish (John 10:28).

4.Their eternal lives are forever hid with Christ in God (Colossians 3:1-3).

5.They are already seated in the heavenlies in Christ (Ephesians 1:3; 2:6).

6.The penalty for all their sin has been forever settled through the perfect and finished work of the Lord Jesus Christ (Romans 4:23-5:2; 5:6-9).

7.Loss of reward at the Judgment Seat of Christ is certain for the careless Christians, but not loss of salvation (1 Corinthians 3:10-15).

8.God faithfully chastens all of His children, even to the point of taking home those who refuse their Heavenly Father's correction (Hebrews 12:6-11; 1 Corinthians 5:1-5; 11:28-32).

9.They have already been delivered from the wrath to come (1 Thessalonians 1:9,10; 5:8-10).

10.They are sealed by the Holy Spirit until the day of redemption (Ephesians 4:30; Romans 8:23).

11.The Lord knoweth them that are His; false professors will be revealed as such at the White Throne Judgment (2 Timothy 2:19; Revelation 20:11-15; Matthew 7:21-23).

12.God is the one Who has begun the good work in the believer, and He has promised to perform it until the day of Jesus Christ; they are to "work out," not "work for" their salvation (Philippians 1:6; 2:12,13).

13.They are already living stones in the spiritual building of God of which Christ Himself is the Chief Cornerstone (1 Peter 2:5; Ephesians 2:20-22).

14.They are members of the Body of Christ, each with a peculiar function and without each one, the Body would not be complete (1 Corinthians 12:12-27).

15.They are kept by the power of God, through faith, not through the efforts or the works of the one who is saved. (1 Peter 1 :5).

16.Their incorruptible, everlasting inheritance is reserved for them by God (1 Peter 1 :1-4).

17.They are God the Father's irrevocable gift to God the Son (John 17:6,7).

18.Backsliding is a sin, but the blood of Jesus Christ, God's Son, cleanses us from all sin (1 John 1 :7-9)

19.He is able to save them to the uttermost because Christ "ever liveth to make intercession for them" (Hebrews 7:25).

20.They are upon trusting Christ made "accepted in the Beloved" (Ephesians 1:6).

21.Nothing can separate them from the love of Christ (Romans 8:38-39).

22.By one offering He hath perfected forever them that are sanctified (Hebrews 10:10-14).

23.They cannot be unborn (John 3:6-8).

24.Christ dwelleth in them for ever (2 John 2).

25.No man can pluck the Christian out of His Father's hand, and that necessarily includes the believer himself (John 10:29).

26.All who are justified are finally glorified-none are lost along the way (Romans 8:28-30).

27.In their flesh dwelleth no good thing; they are saved by grace (undeserved favor) and not by their own works (Ephesians 2:8, 9).

28.The gifts and calling of God are without repentance; God will never annul His promise or cast out those who have come unto Him through Christ (Romans 11:29; John 6:37; 17:2).

Source Taken from Gateway Baptist

 

[BT]

I had a question about eternal security. My church teaches that you have it while others don't. I was wondering what you guys thought and why.

Hi conservativerepublican,

Here are some of my sermon notes on eternal security... give them a read and check the verses. This is the why...

Propitiation (Romans 3:25)​

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Into:

Turn to Romans 3 (Read 23-25).

Our focus tonight is the concept of “propitiation”.

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Propitiation Defined



The word propitiation means “covering” and is synonymous with the “mercy seat”.



Turn to Leviticus 16, we’ll read verses 14,15 (read Leviticus 16:14-15)



Strictly – propitiation is defined as the act of appeasing wrath and conciliating the favor of an offended person.



Theologically – propitiation is the atonement or atoning sacrifice offered to God to assuage His wrath and render Him propitious to sinners, or appeased.

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Biblical Usage



The mercy seat in the Old Testament was the lid or covering of the Ark of the Covenant. Once a year, on the Day of Atonement, the atoning blood of animals was applied to the mercy-seat. This was a symbol that the penalty of the law (shed blood) had been paid. So what should have been a judgement-seat could instead, righteously, be called a mercy-seat.



The New Testament shows Christ as the propitiation, or “that which propitiates”. He is the mercy-seat sprinkled with His own blood.

Notice: Romans 3:26 "To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus."

Christ is the justifier of him which believeth. It is in our place that Christ honored the law by enduring its sentence.

The Difference between the OT propitiation and the NT propitiation



1.a) Blood in the OT served as “for the people” namely the people of Israel.



1.b) 1 John 2:2 We see from this verse that Christ’s blood is for the whole world. It’s covering is sufficient for all.



2.a) Blood sprinkled in the OT didn’t last. It wore off, and had to be reapplied yearly. In this we were taught that the blood of goats and bulls was not enough to do the job. Turn to Hebrews chapter 10. Paul speaking to the Hebrews teaches them this truth Read Hebrews 10:1-4 Paying attention to vs. 3 and 4.

For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.2 For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins. {would...: or, they would have ceased to be offered, because, etc.}3 But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year.4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.

2.b) The blood of Christ was sufficient it was a once and for all sacrifice. Turn back a chapter to Hebrews 9. Reading from verse 11 – 12 Paying attention to vs. 12 “entered in ONCE to the holy place, and obtained ETERNAL redemption for us.” He did the work that we couldn’t do, he did it for us.


Why is this doctrine Important?


This doctrine shows us that Christ was sufficient to obtain for us salvation, more though he obtained a perfect salvation. You can no more lose your salvation than you could earn it or acquire it of yourselves in the first place.

Salvation is the power of God, is the work of God. Turn back to Romans 3:25

Notice who set Christ forth as a propitiation…. GOD… it’s His work.

Back to Hebrews 9. (reread vs. 12) Remember he did it once and his propitiation was enough to obtain “eternal redemption for us”. Last time I checked “eternal” did not mean “until next Tuesday”, eternal did not mean “until next year” eternal did not mean “until you screw-up”.. eternal means forever, without end. Your salvation is eternal salvation.

Turn quickly to Hebrews 10. Reading from vs. 7 (of Christ) to vs 14. We see here the work that it was God’s work in vs. 7

7 Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.

Vs. 7 – It’s God’s work, it’s His will

8 Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law;

9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.

10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

Vs. 10 – once for all, this referring to “all people”

11 And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins:

12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;

Vs. 12 – One sacrifice (becoming the propitiation) for sins for ever

13 From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool.

14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

Vs. 14 – perfected for ever them that are sanctified!! You will sin but forever God sees you through the covering of Christ’s blood and sees you as forgiven forever.

Don’t believe that you can lose salvation. This is a satanic device, I believe, created to divert you from your real work. People get so worried that they aren’t saved anymore that they focus on themselves, or they begin to believe that works are necessary to “maintain” salvation. The diversion therefore comes from not doing that which we are called to do… spread the Gospel do the work of God, bring forth fruit…. Let’s worry about the salvation of others, ours is done, we are sealed. The work is finished!!!

 

[~WildRoseCowgirl~]

I agree with the others above me!

 

[eldermike]

Baptist hold eternal security. It's way up on the list of reasons I am baptist.

 

[~WildRoseCowgirl~]

I just thought of something concerning the subject.... My belief of salvation is that when you are repentant of your sins and trust in Jesus to take you to heaven, youa re saved. But I was thinking recently that what happens if you are saved in the way I said above, and then you stop trusting in Christ to take you to heaven. What happens then?

 

[BT]

I just thought of something concerning the subject.... My belief of salvation is that when you are repentant of your sins and trust in Jesus to take you to heaven, youa re saved. But I was thinking recently that what happens if you are saved in the way I said above, and then you stop trusting in Christ to take you to heaven. What happens then?

Romans 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
Romans 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Hi WildRoseCowgirl

You're right.. The above verses are the only means of salvation. Now if you see someone fall away there are only two options (that I can think of).

1. They were never saved (I hate saying this one.. because who can know?)

2. They are still saved. Oh I know we hate to think of this, but the fact remains. Salvation is of the Lord and it is guaranteed forever. If they fall away and were genuinely saved, they will always be saved, regardless of what they do. The work is God's not ours, this pertains even to the maintenance of it. These people will be back. The Holy Spirit will convict them, and convict them, until eventually they will return.

Hope that helps you. Let me know if it doesn't and I'll try to reword it.

 

[Blackhawk]

I just thought of something concerning the subject.... My belief of salvation is that when you are repentant of your sins and trust in Jesus to take you to heaven, youa re saved. But I was thinking recently that what happens if you are saved in the way I said above, and then you stop trusting in Christ to take you to heaven. What happens then?

I think you have forgotten an important element. One has to make Jesus their Lord.

Note the verses just quoted by someone else but in the NASB.


Rom 10:9-10
9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus {as} Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you shall be saved;
10 for with the heart man believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.
(NAS)

I think this version reflects what is being meant more clearly. It is about accepting Jesus as ruler of your life. One has to become a slave to Christ so that they can be set free from sin.

So if they do fall away then one has to wonder if they had ever really made Jesus their Lord.

 

[BT]

I think you have forgotten an important element. One has to make Jesus their Lord.

Note the verses just quoted by someone else but in the NASB.


Rom 10:9-10
9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus {as} Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you shall be saved;
10 for with the heart man believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.
(NAS)

I think this version reflects what is being meant more clearly. It is about accepting Jesus as ruler of your life. One has to become a slave to Christ so that they can be set free from sin.

So if they do fall away then one has to wonder if they had ever really made Jesus their Lord.

Indeed "Lordship salvation" is an idea that has cropped up in the past decade or so. It's a good idea depending, like much else, on how far you take it. You can push it too far, as I have heard on occasion.

 

[conservativerepublican]

thanks

 

[theseed]

I'm glad to see your sermon notes have not been lost

 

[theseed]

The Lordship salvation clause helps people examine themselves to see if they are really commited, or just getting '"fire insurance".

 

[Blackhawk]

Indeed "Lordship salvation" is an idea that has cropped up in the past decade or so. It's a good idea depending, like much else, on how far you take it. You can push it too far, as I have heard on occasion.

You are right. I was just trying to show that making Christ ones lord is an essential part of salvation. I think the bible does not acknowledge that anyone can be saved without Christ as their Lord.

 

[AVBunyan]

I had a question about eternal security. My church teaches that you have it while others don't. I was wondering what you guys thought and why.

I posted this somewhere else on this forum but can't remember where it is so I will go a head and post it here again - sorry for the summer rerun.

Lose Your Salvation in Two Easy Steps

There is a lot debate today on losing one’s salvation. I’ve decided to boil it down to 2 simple steps to make it easy for you.

1. Do something that causes you to lose it.

Now, I don’t know what that “something” could be because Paul never talked about it and since Paul is the apostle to the Gentiles and the revealer of the body of Christ to us today then he would be the one to tell us what to do to lose it. Since Paul spent 13 epistles expounding Christ and justification surely he would spend some time on how to lose it!

2. Undo all that God did at your salvation.

See how easy it is! Now, let’s go down a simple list of things that God did and all you have to do is make this list your check list and mark them all as you undo them. OK put your tennis shoes on and let’s go!!!

1) Get God to un-forgive you – Eph. 1:7

2) Get God to un-redeem you - Rom. 3:24

3) Get God to un-circumcise you – Col. 2:13

4) Get God to un-adopt you – Rom. 8:15

5) Get God to un-seat you – Eph. 2:6

6) Get God to un-sanctify you – I Cor. 6:11

7) Get God to un-glorify you – Rom. 8:30

8) Get God to un-seal you – Eph. 1:13

9) Get God to un-justify you – Rom. 3:24; 8:30

10) Get God to un-bless you – Eph. 1:3

11) Get God to un-bury you – Rom. 6:4; Col. 2:12

12) Get God to un-raise you – Eph. 2:6

13) Get God to un-quicken you – Eph. 2:1

14) Get God to take Christ out of you – Col. 1:27

15) Get God to take you out of Christ’s physical body – Eph. 5:30

And a few more that I failed to present here.

Now, you se how simple that was – if you can undo all that God has done for you then you are free and clear once again. Then when you “repent” and get right then all the above 15 things will happen again. Then when you “sin it away” again then you can undo it all over again! My what a life! About as confusing as a termite in a yoyo/

Yes, I know all those verses in Matthew (before the cross) and all those verses in Hebrews and James (doctrinally during the tribulation) and of course Revelation (during the 7 year tribulation where the body of Christ is not present anyway) – Yes, I’ve seen all those verses, had them thrown out of context at me for over 20 years now.

Until you can show me how a blood-bought, redeemed, regenerated saint in this age can lose all that God has done for him then I might give you a listen. Until then I will stay secure in Christ for all eternity – glory!!!


May God bless -

 

[eldermike]

1) Get God to un-forgive you – Eph. 1:7

2) Get God to un-redeem you - Rom. 3:24

3) Get God to un-circumcise you – Col. 2:13

4) Get God to un-adopt you – Rom. 8:15

5) Get God to un-seat you – Eph. 2:6

6) Get God to un-sanctify you – I Cor. 6:11

7) Get God to un-glorify you – Rom. 8:30

8) Get God to un-seal you – Eph. 1:13

9) Get God to un-justify you – Rom. 3:24; 8:30

10) Get God to un-bless you – Eph. 1:3

11) Get God to un-bury you – Rom. 6:4; Col. 2:12

12) Get God to un-raise you – Eph. 2:6

13) Get God to un-quicken you – Eph. 2:1

14) Get God to take Christ out of you – Col. 1:27

15) Get God to take you out of Christ’s physical body – Eph. 5:30

Great list!

I remember my oldest daughter, in a fit of anger, telling me that she was no longer a member of our family. She was convinced that she could just say it and it was so. She grew out of the silly notion, praise God!

 

[theseed]

You are right. I was just trying to show that making Christ ones lord is an essential part of salvation. I think the bible does not acknowledge that anyone can be saved without Christ as their Lord.

Yes, it was the first confessoin of the NT church, "Jesus Christ is Lord".

 

[Beoga]

i think what people don't realize when they deny eternal security, is the power of salvation, what took place when God brought you to life. You were changed from a God hater to a God lover. You are a new creation in Christ. God is the Lord of your life and you will not want to live for anything else, cause he is your Master. Yes there will be times of backsliding and sinning, but one that has been changed, these things won't be truly enjoyable. They will be sick and repentent over their sins.