eternal security

[kayanne]

i think i've said in this forum before that i am not fully convinced either way regarding eternal security/OSAS. i do not live in a fear that i will lose my salvation, but i also do not live my christian life carelessly, believing that God has to let me in heaven and nothing i ever door think or adopt as my new religious beliefs, could ever change that.

now, most people who firmly believe in osas say that if, in the future, i decide the bible is not true, that Jesus is not the divine son of God, then i was never really saved in the first place. i find that troubling. i'm going to paste below a quote from another site, that does a good job of summing up my thoughts, and i welcome your responses back.



“ the idea of Eternal Security is that I should be able to know now that if I were to die I would be saved. This, however, is not the case; Jesus says that many will call Him "Lord" but not make it into the Kingdom. Second, if OSAS is true and those people who abandon the Church were never saved in the first place, how can we be confident that we are saved? Is it not possible that we are not truly saved since those other people were not truly saved even though they believed themselves to be? The OSAS position itself begs the question it is supposed to be able to answer: "How can we know that we're saved?" If we can't know until we've died and not renounced Jesus, how can I be sure now that I am saved? I think I am, but so did the apostates who left.” <SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 10.0pt">

 

[Beoga]

it sounds to me like it is dealing more with eternal assurance and not eternal security...but i could be wrong

 

[BT]

now, most people who firmly believe in osas say that if, in the future, i decide the bible is not true, that Jesus is not the divine son of God, then i was never really saved in the first place. i find that troubling. i'm going to paste below a quote from another site, that does a good job of summing up my thoughts, and i welcome your responses back.

I know that OSAS and eternal security are true. If you turn away later in life I would not say that you were never saved. This, IMO is a cop-out that was developed to reduce God to a level which we can understand. While it is possible that a person like this was never actually saved, I prefer to leave that knowledge to God alone. How, on earth, could I know if even any of you are saved? Talking the talk means nothing to God, even walking the walk means little (since it's not about works). Only God knows the heart, only God knows the soul. Now, the fruit of the Spirit is an evidence of a regenerated life and there are many other ways to "spot" a Christian so to speak.. but ultimately only you and God know.

So what do I say when an apparently saved person falls away? There are only a couple of options...

1. He/she was never saved (which I personally would not say but must exist as a possibility).

2. He/she is still saved and will return to the worship of God on this earth, and will still be in heaven.

3. He/she is still saved and will not return to the worship of God on this earth, but will still be in heaven.

I know that options 2 and 3 are not "popular opinions"... that's why I'm glad that God is so much bigger and more graceful than I. At times if I feel that I know better than God I think of the answer that He gave Job..

paraphrase...
"Where were you Job, when I created all things...."

or what He said to Jonah...

paraphrase....
"Did you make these people, should it be so easy to destroy them all..."


Thank God that HE is God.

 

[kayanne]

it sounds to me like it is dealing more with eternal assurance and not eternal security...but i could be wrong

could you help me understand the difference you mean between the two?

 

[Beoga]

could you help me understand the difference you mean between the two?

alright, from what I understand (and maybe this inside my own brain of understanding and not others...oh well), eternal assurance is a personal feeling or knowledge of beeing saved. This can be lost because after time you might not think or feel like you are saved due to sin or whatever. Eternal security cannot be lost because it is dealing with actual salvation of the believer. Whether one feels saved or not, they are still saved.

hopefully this shed more light on what i said and didn't confuse you even more...and hopefully others can elaborate or explain better.

 

[~WildRoseCowgirl~]

Thanks for answering my question everyone, sorry it took me so long to reply... I didna have internet for a while.

 

[AVBunyan]

could you help me understand the difference you mean between the two?

alright, from what I understand (and maybe this inside my own brain of understanding and not others...oh well), eternal assurance is a personal feeling or knowledge of beeing saved. This can be lost because after time you might not think or feel like you are saved due to sin or whatever. Eternal security cannot be lost because it is dealing with actual salvation of the believer. Whether one feels saved or not, they are still saved.

hopefully this shed more light on what i said and didn't confuse you even more...and hopefully others can elaborate or explain better.

Nicely put - I have some old Puritan quotes on this subject that I will post when I get home - I think they will be a blessing in this case - stay tuned

God bless