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Eternal Security: What do you think?

Godsunworthyservant

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I'd like to hear some opinions on the idea of "Eternal Security". I'm familiar with it from a Baptist and Methodist point of view but I know there are lots of varying beliefs on the subject. I am familiar with some of the verses that are the cornerstone for the basic idea, such as John 3:16, John 5:24 and John 10:28-29 to name a few. (I've recently been studying the Gospel of John which I find to be the most intriguing of the Gospels for study). I've also studied those verses people quote against the idea, such as 1 Corinthians 15:1-2, Hebrews 3:14, 2 Peter 2:20-22 and of course Matthew 24:13 where Christ says “But the one who endures to the end will be saved.”. A theoretical question for those who believe in the concept. If a serial killer comes to Christ by saying the "sinners prayer" or something along those lines and is baptized (as many believe baptism is key) and then engages in another killing spree, is that person really "saved"? Let's say this time at least each time he kills he asks God for forgiveness, does that change things? There's an old story that illustrates the way many people see Christianity. It goes something like this;
"I asked God for a bike. I was disappointed when I didn't get one. Then I went to church and the pastor there told me that's not how God works, so I stole a bike and asked God for forgiveness."
So, is eternal security some get out of jail free card for sin? What do you believe?
 

Godsunworthyservant

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This was stupid, and God forgave you.
It's an anecdote. If you read the post, I noted it's an old story. I used it to illustrate what many people think of Christianity. I'm not quite sure what's stupid about that. The question posed in the message has to do with "Eternal Security".
 
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Laodicean60

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It's an anecdote. If you read the post, I noted it's an old story. I used it to illustrate what many people think of Christianity. I'm not quite sure what's stupid about that. The question posed in the message has to do with "Eternal Security".
I think stealing is a stupid thing to do. But God will still forgive you.
 
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Godsunworthyservant

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I think stealing is a stupid thing to do. But God will still forgive you.
Do you understand it's an anecdote? That part of the message isn't reality, it's a metaphorical story. It never happened. It's meant to illustrate a point!
 
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St_Worm2

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I'd like to hear some opinions on the idea of "Eternal Security". I'm familiar with it from a Baptist and Methodist point of view but I know there are lots of varying beliefs on the subject.
Hello Godsunworthyservant, the Methodist Church does not teach the eternal security of the believer, as I'm sure you know. Many Baptist denominations do (such as the SBC & Reformed Baptists), while others do not, such as Free Will Baptists.

Presbyterians do. See: Chapter 17: Of the Perseverance of the Saints | Reformed Theology at A Puritan's Mind

I've also studied those verses people quote against the idea, such as 1 Corinthians 15:1-2, Hebrews 3:14, 2 Peter 2:20-22 and of course Matthew 24:13 where Christ says “But the one who endures to the end will be saved.”
"The ones who endures to the end" ~are~ all who have or will come to true, saving faith in the Lord Jesus Christ. The saints of God "persevere" in the faith because God "preserves" us in the faith to make sure that none of us are ever lost .. e.g. John 6:37-40, 44, 10:27-28; Philippians 1:6; 1 Thessalonians 5:23-24; Hebrews 7:25).

The saints are the ones who God patiently waits for to come to repentance and be saved (2 Peter 3:9), not for those (reprobate unbelievers) who He ~already knows~ never will .. e.g. Matthew 7:22-23; 13:1-9 (see esp. v3-7); 1 John 2:19.

Is eternal security some get out of jail free card for sin? What do you believe?
Salvation is a get-out-of-jail-for-free card in a very real sense, since nothing that we do personally is adequate or acceptable to God as a payment that is capable of redeeming us (so that we can be forgiven), only the things that the Lord Jesus did for us/on our behalf are .. e.g. Hebrews 9:22, 10:4; Romans 5:8-10.

That said, one of the Lord Jesus' principal purposes in coming here was to save those of us who come to saving faith in Him from our sins .. e.g. Matthew 1:21, from the power of sin on this side of the grave, from the penalty of sin at the end of the age, and from the presence of sin altogether in the age to come.

What He absolutely did ~NOT~ come here to do was to give us a free pass or license to continue in sin (or to sin even more than we already were) without eternal consequences. Rather, He came to make us "His workmanship" as wholly "new creatures" in Christ .. e.g. Ephesians 2:1-5, 8-10; 2 Corinthians 5:17, 21 (creatures with a new self/new nature .. e.g. Ezekiel 36:26-27, Ephesians 4:22-24, who are now inclined towards/have the innate desire for righteousness instead of sinfulness, albeit imperfectly on this side of the grave).

There's much more, but this is plenty for now :)

God bless you!!

--David

Spurgeon - Hope Lives - Trust - He, not I am holy.jpg
 
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Godsunworthyservant

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Hello Godsunworthyservant, the Methodist Church does not teach the eternal security of the believer, as I'm sure you know. Many Baptist denominations do (such as the SBC & Reformed Baptists), while others do not, such as Free Will Baptists.

Presbyterians do. See: Chapter 17: Of the Perseverance of the Saints | Reformed Theology at A Puritan's Mind


"The ones who endures to the end" ~are~ all who have or will come to true, saving faith in the Lord Jesus Christ. The saints of God "persevere" in the faith because God "preserves" us in the faith to make sure that none of us are ever lost .. e.g. John 6:37-40, 44, 10:27-28; Philippians 1:6; 1 Thessalonians 5:23-24; Hebrews 7:25).

The saints are the ones who God patiently waits for to come to repentance and be saved (2 Peter 3:9), not for those (reprobate unbelievers) who He ~already knows~ never will .. e.g. Matthew 7:22-23; 13:1-9 (see esp. v3-7); 1 John 2:19.


Salvation is a get-out-of-jail-for-free card in a very real sense, since nothing that we do personally is adequate or acceptable to God as a payment that is capable of redeeming us (so that we can be forgiven), only the things that the Lord Jesus did for us/on our behalf are .. e.g. Hebrews 9:22, 10:4; Romans 5:8-10.

That said, one of the Lord Jesus' principal purposes in coming here was to save those of us who come to saving faith in Him from our sins .. e.g. Matthew 1:21, from the power of sin on this side of the grave, from the penalty of sin at the end of the age, and from the presence of sin altogether in the age to come.

What He absolutely did ~NOT~ come here to do was to give us a free pass or license to continue in sin (or to sin even more than we already were) without eternal consequences. Rather, He came to make us "His workmanship" as wholly "new creatures" in Christ .. e.g. Ephesians 2:1-5, 8-10; 2 Corinthians 5:17, 21 (creatures with a new self/new nature .. e.g. Ezekiel 36:26-27, Ephesians 4:22-24, who are now inclined towards/have the innate desire for righteousness instead of sinfulness, albeit imperfectly on this side of the grave).

There's much more, but this is plenty for now :)

God bless you!!

--David

You make a lot of good points. I used the Baptist and Methodist analogy as to include and contrast both sides of the question. I know there are many nuances to various beliefs on the subject and it's one of the main points of contention between the Missionary Baptists and the Freewill Baptists. Personally I believe it's one of the biggest differences between any church that believes it in any of it's iterations and those who reject it outright. I also believe in many instances it is used as sort of a crutch when one wishes to continue living a sinful life all week and then go to church on Sunday. (or whenever they go to church). You sound like you've found a good middle ground.
 
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Joseph G

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I'd like to hear some opinions on the idea of "Eternal Security". I'm familiar with it from a Baptist and Methodist point of view but I know there are lots of varying beliefs on the subject. I am familiar with some of the verses that are the cornerstone for the basic idea, such as John 3:16, John 5:24 and John 10:28-29 to name a few. (I've recently been studying the Gospel of John which I find to be the most intriguing of the Gospels for study). I've also studied those verses people quote against the idea, such as 1 Corinthians 15:1-2, Hebrews 3:14, 2 Peter 2:20-22 and of course Matthew 24:13 where Christ says “But the one who endures to the end will be saved.”. A theoretical question for those who believe in the concept. If a serial killer comes to Christ by saying the "sinners prayer" or something along those lines and is baptized (as many believe baptism is key) and then engages in another killing spree, is that person really "saved"? Let's say this time at least each time he kills he asks God for forgiveness, does that change things? There's an old story that illustrates the way many people see Christianity. It goes something like this;
"I asked God for a bike. I was disappointed when I didn't get one. Then I went to church and the pastor there told me that's not how God works, so I stole a bike and asked God for forgiveness."
So, is eternal security some get out of jail free card for sin? What do you believe?

The one who fears is not perfected in love.

The very definition of saving faith is actively trusting in the sufficiency of Christ's sacrifice.

Is He the perfect Lamb Who lived a sinless life for us? Yes.

Is His blood enough to purchase our adoption and secure us firmly as *one with Him* from this day unto eternity? Yes.

Did He not promise that HE HIMSELF is the Author and *Finisher* of our faith? Yes.

Did He Himself not promise that HE who began a good work in you WILL COMPLETE it unto the day of Christ Jesus? Yes.

Should we then wring our hands in worry that if we don't overcome sin sufficiently in our own effort, and bear enough fruit in our own effort - that we will nullify His Covenant of Grace with us? No.

The very fact that 1) We *still* hear His Spirit testifying with our spirit that we are His children (Romans 8:16), and 2) we *still* hunger and thirst for righteousness (Matthew 5:6) and 3) we *still* find our true joy in pleasing Him with the exercise of our FAITH (the Gift that is *still* free and necessary to even do so), and 4) delight in greater intimacy with Him with every passing day, and 5) can perceive being further cleansed from our impurities after every refining fiery trial, and finally 6) find immense satisfaction in watching Him bear fruit through us, His broken vessels, well...

Is this all not enough for us to remain at peace under the secure wings of our Heavenly Father?

What then is the source of our recurring fear and doubt? Is it God condemning us? Is it Jesus? Is it others? Is it ourselves? (see all of Romans 8).

Or is it the Accuser of the Brethren masquerading as God, Jesus, others, and ourselves (through our dead flesh) in a desperate effort to muzzle us from sharing, you know, Good News?

The Father of Lies has been ironically accusing Almighty God of being a liar Himself since the very beginning - that God will betray His promise to us on some technicality. The devil's deception (blinding the eyes) will only work on the ultimate permanent unrepentant who truly wants to remain separated from and unaccountable to God - who loves their sin and remaining in darkness.

With us, though, the Accuser cannot stand in the full Light of God's Grace - personified by the presence of His Son within us. Thus why there is such power in the Name of Jesus - and that old serpent must flee when we flash our signet ring and declare Jesus' Name before him.

Saved by grace, sustained by grace. There is absolutely no other scenario that could possibly work to guarantee we have eternal life *right now.*

Our confidence is all upon the faithfulness of the Great Covenant Keeper alone.

Need additional ammo to wield against our enemy? Check out the following 133 NT Eternal Security passages below and be blessed! The offer extends to all brothers and sisters in the Lord!

We can trust the Personal Voice of the Author of Scripture since we recognize Him and continue to follow Him. And encourage our brethren to have the same confidence for all of the same reasons.

Those who do not overcome and endure to the end were tragically never really His. As Paul tells the faltering Galatians - we have every reason to be persuaded of better things!

 
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com7fy8

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I'd like to hear some opinions on the idea of "Eternal Security".
This has been discussed, but possibly now we can learn something that we haven't > God can give increase. One thing I think now is, that we need to get not only the quantity of life but the quality. And, like this, we need the good of our security . . . not only a guarantee.

There are ones who can go to a restaurant because they are guaranteed the best possible food is there. And they are so convinced, that you can feed them poop and they will feel that must be the best food available. There are ones who now are so sure of what they have, that they accept whatever they have must be the best possible . . . since *they* are the ones who prayed for salvation!

But there are others who seem to feel you can get saved and be in God's kingdom, but God does not change you so you are safe from losing it > they seem to think God does not do enough and give you enough of what will keep you safe.

How can you be saved . . . if you are not safe?

If we have trusted Jesus to save us, why would He leave us so lacking that we can be stupid enough to leave God? But, on the other hand, there seem to be ones who claim they have their "ticket" and can't lose what they have, but they are still foolish enough to live in some deeply ruined way without the correction guaranteed in Hebrews 12.

So, what do we have along with our beliefs? Do we still depend on our human free wills, or are we now in Jesus and depending on Him so He is not only keeping us but has been changing us to be humble and loving like Him? And in case He is the One now succeeding in us, why would He leave us wrong enough so we could at any moment leave Him??

Either way can be wrong.
I'm familiar with it from a Baptist and Methodist point of view but I know there are lots of varying beliefs on the subject.
I would say get to know each person and discover what each one has to offer. A group can have ones who have commandeered the doctrinal statements of the group. Or, a democratic vote decided and the majority of voters were not mature. So, what a group claims could represent only ringleaders or the immature majority. Don't be lazy, then, but get to know people so you discover *~how someone lives because of one's beliefs~*.
I am familiar with some of the verses that are the cornerstone for the basic idea, such as John 3:16, John 5:24 and John 10:28-29 to name a few. (I've recently been studying the Gospel of John which I find to be the most intriguing of the Gospels for study).
Note what 1 John 4:17 says is reason "that we may have boldness in the day of judgment" > **not** that we said a prayer and got a ticket . . . also, **not** that we have kept our own selves choosing not to leave God.

But - - - our assurance is not in the quantity of right belief or correct activities, but we have the quality of character of God's love making us "as He is" "in this world."

It is not about what our human wills have done or can do, then, I would say. But it is about all God has begun and done.

"He who has begun a good work in you will complete it until the day of Jesus Christ" (in Philippians 1:6).
I've also studied those verses people quote against the idea, such as 1 Corinthians 15:1-2, Hebrews 3:14, 2 Peter 2:20-22 and of course Matthew 24:13 where Christ says “But the one who endures to the end will be saved.”.
And like with certain eternal security people, the guarantee of deep character correction has a way of not being mentioned by ones so busy with claiming you keep your human will - which, of course, can lose everything!!

A theoretical question for those who believe in the concept. If a serial killer comes to Christ by saying the "sinners prayer" or something along those lines and is baptized (as many believe baptism is key) and then engages in another killing spree, is that person really "saved"? Let's say this time at least each time he kills he asks God for forgiveness, does that change things?
Is it possible for someone to trust in Jesus (Ephesians 1:12), truly, and then not change from one's past evil? Basically no. Someone is not going to ***submit to*** Jesus and then go do that stuff. But yes, I would say we who have trusted in Jesus by submitting to Him are still able to be and do wrong. But God keeps a limit on how far we can go. Because this is about ***His*** commitment > Romans 8:29.

Each member of a body is essential. No part at some point becomes nonfunctional so it just drops off. But each part can mature into having more and more importance.
There's an old story that illustrates the way many people see Christianity. It goes something like this;
"I asked God for a bike. I was disappointed when I didn't get one. Then I went to church and the pastor there told me that's not how God works, so I stole a bike and asked God for forgiveness."
So, is eternal security some get out of jail free card for sin? What do you believe?
Biblical security is confirmed by 1 John 4:17. And we get here by means of real character correction > Hebrews 12:4-14 . . . note verse 8.
 
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timf

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The faithful of Israel could look forward to the resurrection of the just (Dan 12:2). When Jesus came he offered the kingdom gospel to the nation of Israel. While those of Israel would still have to wait for the resurrection, they now had their sins forgive through faith (John 8:24). When the grace gospel was offered to gentiles, we have the opportunity to receive eternal life immediately because we received it by being placed into the "body" of Christ. by the Holy Spirit that "seals" us.

Sadly, few Christians make much progress letting the Holy Spirit work in them so that they walk less by the flesh (sinful) and more by the Spirit (maturity).
 
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I'd like to hear some opinions on the idea of "Eternal Security". I'm familiar with it from a Baptist and Methodist point of view but I know there are lots of varying beliefs on the subject. I am familiar with some of the verses that are the cornerstone for the basic idea, such as John 3:16, John 5:24 and John 10:28-29 to name a few. (I've recently been studying the Gospel of John which I find to be the most intriguing of the Gospels for study). I've also studied those verses people quote against the idea, such as 1 Corinthians 15:1-2, Hebrews 3:14, 2 Peter 2:20-22 and of course Matthew 24:13 where Christ says “But the one who endures to the end will be saved.”. A theoretical question for those who believe in the concept. If a serial killer comes to Christ by saying the "sinners prayer" or something along those lines and is baptized (as many believe baptism is key) and then engages in another killing spree, is that person really "saved"? Let's say this time at least each time he kills he asks God for forgiveness, does that change things? There's an old story that illustrates the way many people see Christianity. It goes something like this;
"I asked God for a bike. I was disappointed when I didn't get one. Then I went to church and the pastor there told me that's not how God works, so I stole a bike and asked God for forgiveness."
So, is eternal security some get out of jail free card for sin? What do you believe?
What you're describing is often referred to as "easy believism”, the idea that someone can say the sinner’s prayer, get baptized, and be declared “saved” without any real heart transformation. In the case of your serial killer example, the pattern of ongoing, willful sin reveals a lack of genuine repentance and regeneration. That kind of life shows no evidence of salvation, and there’s no biblical basis for claiming eternal security in that condition.
 
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ViaCrucis

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I'd like to hear some opinions on the idea of "Eternal Security". I'm familiar with it from a Baptist and Methodist point of view but I know there are lots of varying beliefs on the subject. I am familiar with some of the verses that are the cornerstone for the basic idea, such as John 3:16, John 5:24 and John 10:28-29 to name a few. (I've recently been studying the Gospel of John which I find to be the most intriguing of the Gospels for study). I've also studied those verses people quote against the idea, such as 1 Corinthians 15:1-2, Hebrews 3:14, 2 Peter 2:20-22 and of course Matthew 24:13 where Christ says “But the one who endures to the end will be saved.”. A theoretical question for those who believe in the concept. If a serial killer comes to Christ by saying the "sinners prayer" or something along those lines and is baptized (as many believe baptism is key) and then engages in another killing spree, is that person really "saved"? Let's say this time at least each time he kills he asks God for forgiveness, does that change things? There's an old story that illustrates the way many people see Christianity. It goes something like this;
"I asked God for a bike. I was disappointed when I didn't get one. Then I went to church and the pastor there told me that's not how God works, so I stole a bike and asked God for forgiveness."
So, is eternal security some get out of jail free card for sin? What do you believe?

We have the Assurance and Confidence of forgiveness in the Gospel, and that we are Christ's, and that there is no power, neither in height no depth, above or below, in all the earth, that can separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus. This means we can be confident in the promises of God, of HIs love for us, His mercy, and forgiveness. So that we can look to our baptism and know we belong to God because we are in Christ. We can look to the Lord's Supper where He offers us His body and blood, and that we are His for He gives us Himself. When the Gospel is preached, our faith is strengthened, our hope built up, so that we are confident and assured of these good things, comforted by them.

The problem with "once saved always saved" is that while on the surface it seems to suggest assurance and confidence, it really isn't.

The problem with "once saved always saved" is how it tries to tackle the very real issue of apostasy, when a Christian falls away from the faith and becomes an unbeliever. The doctrine of "once saved always saved" only has two answers: The Christian that falls away remains saved anyway, even though they live a totally unrepentant life in non-belief, having fully rejected Christ; this is not usually the answer OSAS gives, because most everyone recognizes the immediate absurdity of it. The answer usually given was that such a person was never a Christian in the first place, they never actually believed, because had they been a "Real Christian" they'd never have fallen away. But let's really listen to that answer, because it isn't an answer of hope, of confidence; it's an answer of despair and lacking hope.

Let me offer a personal anecdote:

When I was in high school there was a guy named Tom in my high school youth group at church. Tom took his faith seriously, he wasn't a stick in the mud, but he was the most devoted person I knew who was around my age. I would often find him, during lunch break at school, in the library doing devotional studies with Scripture, freely spending his time between class with his nose in the Bible, hungrily reading it, taking notes, and devoting himself to following Jesus and taking Jesus seriously. He wasn't arrogant, he didn't shove his faithfulness in anyone's face. He was a soft-spoken, humble, and dedicated and devoted Christian who really wanted to take Jesus seriously and walk the walk and talk the talk. I looked up to Tom, I respected Tom, I wanted to be a Christian like Tom.

Years later after high school I met Tom again. Tom wasn't a Christian anymore, he had between high school and dropping out of college completely thrown away his faith. I didn't know all the details, but I did hang out with Tom a few times, we shared a couple beers and talked about life. But Tom was different, he wasn't the same person; not just in the sense that he was no longer a believer, but there was just something that wasn't there anymore. And I'll be really honest, it shook me.

In high school I was a Christian, and I even had a reputation among some groups of friends as "the Christian" in the group. I struggled with a lot of things, of course I did, of course we all do. But my faith was shaky, I was always worried about my salvation, I believed in "Once saved always saved" and so I was frequently in fear about the sincerity of my own faith. It was a question that often led me to long tearful nights as I poured my heart out to God, just wanting to be saved and know I'm saved. It would be years before I finally had that aching resolved by a fresh hearing of the Gospel, and a new confidence could be built in me. But Tom? Tom didn't just talk the talk, he walked the walk. I'm sure he had his own struggles of faith, as we all do, I don't think Tom was perfect, who knows all that was in his heart and in his head--but Tom certainly wasn't faking his Christianity.

I haven't heard from Tom in a very long time now, I don't know how he's doing or what he's up to. I don't know if perhaps, in the long years since we spoke that he has returned to the faith or not. But I want to be clear: When I met Tom last, Tom wasn't a Christian. And I absolutely reject the idea that Tom had never been a Christian.

If Tom had never been a Christian, then that calls into question whether I am a Christian even right now. How can I know I'm actually a Christian? Tom thought he was a Christian, I thought Tom was a Christian. If being a Christian is ultimately unknowable, then nobody can actually have any confidence, any assurance, in Christ, in the Gospel, of forgiveness, of hope, of eternal life.

Once saved always saved does not bring confidence and assurance and hope. It has the appearance of these things, but only if one can do the mental gymnastics to say, "Well, that person obviously was never a Christian, but hey, I know I am". But who is to say you're not just like Tom, you may think you're a Christian right now, but you only think you are.

The only way we can have assurance is by trusting in the promise of the Gospel. We can never look to ourselves, turn our gaze inward. It is only with eyes outward, upon Christ, that we have any hope and confidence. OSAS turns the gaze inward, not outward. And it ultimately provides no comfort or relief to the weary Christian who needs the Gospel to give him rest in this world of burden.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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fhansen

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We have the Assurance and Confidence of forgiveness in the Gospel, and that we are Christ's, and that there is no power, neither in height no depth, above or below, in all the earth, that can separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus. This means we can be confident in the promises of God, of HIs love for us, His mercy, and forgiveness. So that we can look to our baptism and know we belong to God because we are in Christ. We can look to the Lord's Supper where He offers us His body and blood, and that we are His for He gives us Himself. When the Gospel is preached, our faith is strengthened, our hope built up, so that we are confident and assured of these good things, comforted by them.

The problem with "once saved always saved" is that while on the surface it seems to suggest assurance and confidence, it really isn't.

The problem with "once saved always saved" is how it tries to tackle the very real issue of apostasy, when a Christian falls away from the faith and becomes an unbeliever. The doctrine of "once saved always saved" only has two answers: The Christian that falls away remains saved anyway, even though they live a totally unrepentant life in non-belief, having fully rejected Christ; this is not usually the answer OSAS gives, because most everyone recognizes the immediate absurdity of it. The answer usually given was that such a person was never a Christian in the first place, they never actually believed, because had they been a "Real Christian" they'd never have fallen away. But let's really listen to that answer, because it isn't an answer of hope, of confidence; it's an answer of despair and lacking hope.

Let me offer a personal anecdote:

When I was in high school there was a guy named Tom in my high school youth group at church. Tom took his faith seriously, he wasn't a stick in the mud, but he was the most devoted person I knew who was around my age. I would often find him, during lunch break at school, in the library doing devotional studies with Scripture, freely spending his time between class with his nose in the Bible, hungrily reading it, taking notes, and devoting himself to following Jesus and taking Jesus seriously. He wasn't arrogant, he didn't shove his faithfulness in anyone's face. He was a soft-spoken, humble, and dedicated and devoted Christian who really wanted to take Jesus seriously and walk the walk and talk the talk. I looked up to Tom, I respected Tom, I wanted to be a Christian like Tom.

Years later after high school I met Tom again. Tom wasn't a Christian anymore, he had between high school and dropping out of college completely thrown away his faith. I didn't know all the details, but I did hang out with Tom a few times, we shared a couple beers and talked about life. But Tom was different, he wasn't the same person; not just in the sense that he was no longer a believer, but there was just something that wasn't there anymore. And I'll be really honest, it shook me.

In high school I was a Christian, and I even had a reputation among some groups of friends as "the Christian" in the group. I struggled with a lot of things, of course I did, of course we all do. But my faith was shaky, I was always worried about my salvation, I believed in "Once saved always saved" and so I was frequently in fear about the sincerity of my own faith. It was a question that often led me to long tearful nights as I poured my heart out to God, just wanting to be saved and know I'm saved. It would be years before I finally had that aching resolved by a fresh hearing of the Gospel, and a new confidence could be built in me. But Tom? Tom didn't just talk the talk, he walked the walk. I'm sure he had his own struggles of faith, as we all do, I don't think Tom was perfect, who knows all that was in his heart and in his head--but Tom certainly wasn't faking his Christianity.

I haven't heard from Tom in a very long time now, I don't know how he's doing or what he's up to. I don't know if perhaps, in the long years since we spoke that he has returned to the faith or not. But I want to be clear: When I met Tom last, Tom wasn't a Christian. And I absolutely reject the idea that Tom had never been a Christian.

If Tom had never been a Christian, then that calls into question whether I am a Christian even right now. How can I know I'm actually a Christian? Tom thought he was a Christian, I thought Tom was a Christian. If being a Christian is ultimately unknowable, then nobody can actually have any confidence, any assurance, in Christ, in the Gospel, of forgiveness, of hope, of eternal life.

Once saved always saved does not bring confidence and assurance and hope. It has the appearance of these things, but only if one can do the mental gymnastics to say, "Well, that person obviously was never a Christian, but hey, I know I am". But who is to say you're not just like Tom, you may think you're a Christian right now, but you only think you are.

The only way we can have assurance is by trusting in the promise of the Gospel. We can never look to ourselves, turn our gaze inward. It is only with eyes outward, upon Christ, that we have any hope and confidence. OSAS turns the gaze inward, not outward. And it ultimately provides no comfort or relief to the weary Christian who needs the Gospel to give him rest in this world of burden.

-CryptoLutheran
That was a great testimony. Thank you. And FWIW in my opinion we can have an assurance, which should be supported by evidence of good fruit, without having the absolute 100% certainty that God, alone, has about us, or without thinking we can definitively predict our own perseverance.
 
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