eternal salvation???

[Pink Angel]

I am yet confused on another topic I was talking with Swoosh on the way to church this mornign about salvation. Baptist beleive once your saved your always saved, while Catholics beleive in purgetory as a sence of clensing before going into Heaven. So as the Baptist beleive that if Merilyn Manson(for example) got saved at the age of 14 then if he were to die tomarrow he would automatically be sent to Heaven because there was a time in his life that he was saved and came to know Christ. While Catholics beleive that he would be sent to Purgetory. Which is true. I am lost.

Pink Angel

 

[FreeinChrist]

So as the Baptist beleive that if Merilyn Manson(for example) got saved at the age of 14 then if he were to die tomarrow he would automatically be sent to Heaven because there was a time in his life that he was saved and came to know Christ. While Catholics beleive that he would be sent to Purgetory. Which is true. I am lost.

Pink Angel

I am OSAS and Baptist for many years...but, I believe that there are those who make a profession of faith, but it isn't real. Let's look at your example above with Marilyn Manson. He may have said a prayer at age 14, but his life demonstrates that he was never saved. Salvation is not just at our whim. God looks into our hearts and the true intent of our mind...and He accepts the repentant believer, and doesn't accept those that don't truly repent. I believe that in John 6, we see that no one comes to the Jesus unless drawn by the Father, is granted to by the Father, and no one is given to Jesus unless the Father is doing the giving.

Read the parable of the soils. One in particular hears the word, seems to respond for a bit, but because it has no root (Holy Spirit), it fades out. God is the one who gives the Holy Spirit, and if He does not see a person is a truly repentant believer, He doesn't give the Holy Spirit save).

 

[FreeinChrist]

One other thing...I don't see any scriptural basis for purgatory.

 

[Pink Angel]

well see that is where I get confused.....does it mean that you would only go to 'purgetory' (if you beleive) if you were save but your heart wasnt right.....or what?

pink angel

 

[Reformationist]

As I understand purgatory, and I could most certainly be wrong, is that it is a pre-glorification stage that those who have been saved go through to completely cleanse them from their sinfulness and make them fit to be with our Lord in Heaven.

I think believing in this doctrine speaks volumes about people's beliefs as to how the Lord works His wonderous atoning work. Protestants do not acknowledge purgatory as biblical because we believe that the Lord's work (His obedience unto death) is efficacious in reconciling His chosen to Himself.

It seems that your question, which seems to be asking Protestants what the purpose of purgatory is, is a bit illogical. We, as a collective faith, do not acknowledge purgatory as a biblically sound belief so our response is going to be more along the lines of rejecting the doctrine to begin with rather than being able to give you any significant biblical support for the belief.

If you desire to understand the biblical reasoning behind this doctrine from the perspective of those who give authority to it you might rather want to post this in the OBOB forum.

God bless

 

[BeanMak]

Only someone who is "saved" and bound for heaven goes through purgatory. It is not that Jesus' "work" isn't enough; purgatory is more like taking a shower and putting on a cleasn shirt after working all day before going to see a special friend. Purgatory isn't second chance for salvation.

 

[Reformationist]

It is not that Jesus' "work" isn't enough; purgatory is more like taking a shower and putting on a cleasn shirt after working all day before going to see a special friend.

It is exactly that Jesus' work isn't enough. Jesus' obedience, even unto death, is my shower and clean shirt.

God bless

 

[JEREMY O'ROURKE]

Pergutory is no where in the scriptures. According to the Bible you either go to heaven or hell when you die. Based on wether or not you recieved Jesus. I am Pentecostal and I hope and pray that the Baptists are right about this. I believe as Pentecostals do that a person can lose his/her salvation because people get away from God all of the time. Some turn their backs on him. I dont think that all people but some use the once save always saved doctrine to just live like they want and have no consequence for their actions. There are scriptures in the Bible that say that in the last days many would turn from the faith and follow after seducing spirits and doctrines of devils etc. I wish I had my Bible with me but I do not. To turn from the faith though you would have to be a part of the faith at one time you can not turn away from something that you were never a part of. No matter which is right we should always live like we could lose it because it is too risky of a chance to take.

 

[FreeinChrist]

well see that is where I get confused.....does it mean that you would only go to 'purgetory' (if you beleive) if you were save but your heart wasnt right.....or what?

pink angel

There is no purgatory. You are either saved or you aren't. You can only be declared righteous because of the blood of Christ. Christ paid the price of our sin once for all (Hebrews 9:28), having become 'sin' for us.

The concept of purgatory is believed by the RCC but not by Protestants.

 

[Reformationist]

Pergutory is no where in the scriptures. According to the Bible you either go to heaven or hell when you die. Based on wether or not you recieved Jesus.

Jeremy, what do you mean by "receive Jesus?"

I dont think that all people but some use the once save always saved doctrine to just live like they want and have no consequence for their actions.

Just because someone makes the unbiblical assumption that OSAS means that we are free to live without regard for the Law of God doesn't mean that they actually do. Whether or not someone "uses" OSAS for the purpose of doing so is irrelevent. If one continues to live in a lifestyle of sinfulness with no regard for God and His commands of obedience then all they are doing is showing their lack of regeneration, and subsequent fallen disregard for the ways of God, not that they claim a belief that they don't embrace.

To turn from the faith though you would have to be a part of the faith at one time you can not turn away from something that you were never a part of.

"Turning from faith," IN NO WAY, implies regeneration. Those who "turn from faith" and do not return are those who never embraced it but rather enjoyed the convenental benefits of a relationship with the body of Christ.

No matter which is right we should always live like we could lose it because it is too risky of a chance to take.

Absolutely not. I will not live my life presuming that the Lord is unable to keep me in His fold. He made it perfectly clear that I can be confident in His power to preserve me. If you choose to doubt Him all I can do is encourage you to pray that He will increase your faith.

God bless

 

[Hidden in Christ]

Jeremy, what do you mean by "receive Jesus?"


Just because someone makes the unbiblical assumption that OSAS means that we are free to live without regard for the Law of God doesn't mean that they actually do. Whether or not someone "uses" OSAS for the purpose of doing so is irrelevent. If one continues to live in a lifestyle of sinfulness with no regard for God and His commands of obedience then all they are doing is showing their lack of regeneration, and subsequent fallen disregard for the ways of God, not that they claim a belief that they don't embrace.


"Turning from faith," IN NO WAY, implies regeneration. Those who "turn from faith" and do not return are those who never embraced it but rather enjoyed the convenental benefits of a relationship with the body of Christ.


Absolutely not. I will not live my life presuming that the Lord is unable to keep me in His fold. He made it perfectly clear that I can be confident in His power to preserve me. If you choose to doubt Him all I can do is encourage you to pray that He will increase your faith.

God bless

Romans 8 tells us that the Spirit of God bears witness with our hearts as believers that we are His children. If there has ever been a time when God told you that you were His born again child, I do not believe it is possible for Him to disown His child. Only the most evil of earthly fathers would ever disown their children, but God has no shade of evil in His nature. Consider all the fathers who have had rebellious children who have brought much shame to their families, but they still love them and claim them.

I remember once in my Christian life, I got so far away from God that I no longer felt His presence and I thought maybe I had done something to lose my salvation. Then God spoke to my troubled heart and said "You were once my child, and you are always my child." I'll never forget the clear speaking of the Holy Spirit to me that day, and that is the reason I am a strong OSAS person. At that time in my life I had gotten as far away from God as a person could be, I believe. I have peace that if my salvation remained secure through that, then I'm safe for eternity!

Also, those who worry that they can lose their salvation are missing the point that our salvation is in God and not what we do. We cannot keep or obtain salvation by living good lives or by seeking merit in something we do. God is the one who drew us to Himself, He's the one who helps us live the Christian life and He's the one who gives us grace that we never deserve.

As for having a lax attitude about sin, consider Romans 6:1. It says "Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? God forbid. How shall we that are dead to sin live any longer therein?" I personally believe that the people who understand these truths can be more on fire for God and live holier lives than those who think they might lose their salvation, because people who understand these truths are trusting God, not themselves.