Eternal Justification !

[Brightfame52]

Paul teaches Eternal Justification right here !

Rom 8:28-30

28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.

29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

All the aorist tense verbs foreknow, predestinate, called, Justified, and glorified, all these are things God did in timeless Eternity before the world began. Paul here is not enumerating events that transpired in time, but events of God in His Eternal Purpose and Decree. They are all done as far as God is concerned, even though we, the elect in Christ do not come to experience them until time. So the elect, according to God's Eternal Purpose of Grace are already foreknown, predestined, called or named as His Children], Justified and Glorified.

 

[Brightfame52]

No I don't... You misunderstood the point the scripture is making.

All men where condemned because of the sin of Adam and Eve... so we were condemned because of legal guilt... prior to our birth.

Upon our birth... we began adding breaches of the Law increasing the scope of our transgressions.

Jesus of Nazareth suffered the just judgement of God of our legal guilt in Adam and Eve... and additionally... our legal guilt for our transgressions of the Law from our birth to our death (all inclusive).

That is not double jeopardy... there is no repeat of any specific legal charge.
.

Yes you do !

 

[moonbeam]

30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

All the aorist tense verbs foreknow, predestinate, called, Justified, and glorified, all these are things God did in timeless Eternity before the world began. Paul here is not enumerating events that transpired in time, but events of God in His Eternal Purpose and Decree. They are all done as far as God is concerned, even though we, the elect in Christ do not come to experience them until time. So the elect, according to God's Eternal Purpose of Grace are already foreknown, predestined, called or named as His Children], Justified and Glorified.

Justified in concept is one aspect... the uncreated domain of Gods essential essence.

Justified in fact is another... the actualisation of the concepts within the created domain.

In which domain did God in the flesh, Jesus of Nazareth, shed his blood and die... the uncreated or created?
.

 

[moonbeam]

Yes you do !

You cannot provide an example of a specific legal charge that has been repeated

That is required for a defence on the grounds of double jeopardy.

State your case?
.

 

[Brightfame52]

Justified in concept is one aspect... the uncreated domain of Gods essential essence.

Justified in fact is another... the actualisation of the concepts within the created domain.

In which domain did God in the flesh, Jesus of Nazareth, shed his blood and die... the uncreated or created?
.

You still dont get it

 

[Brightfame52]

You cannot provide an example of a specific legal charge that has been repeated

That is required for a defence on the grounds of double jeopardy.

State your case?
.

I already have but you cant see it, I cant help you with what you cannot see

 

[moonbeam]

You still dont get it

I am afraid it is you who does not get it.

There is no such thing as eternal justification... there is only the concept of justification.

The concept of justification... had to be actualized... for justification to become a fact.
.

 

[moonbeam]

I already have but you cant see it, I cant help you with what you cannot see

I am afraid it is you who cannot see... you cannot show a single example of a legal guilt (charge) being repeated regards the elect.

I have asked you to support your claim of double jeopardy... you failed to provide any evidence.

No evidence of double jeopardy makes your claim fraudulent.
.

 

[Paleouss]

Exactly what is the timing of Justification ? When is one for whom Christ died Justified before God ?

Hello Brightfame52, hope your week was a good one.

Saw your post and read a little bit of it. Thought I would give my 2 cents. I apologize if I restate something someone else said, I have not read all the posts in this thread.

John Calvin writes:

"To justify, therefore, is nothing else than to acquit from the charge of guilt, as if innocence were proved. Hence, when God justifies us through the intercession of Christ, he does not acquit us on a proof of our own innocence, but by an imputation of righteousness, so that though not righteous in ourselves, we are deemed righteous in Christ." -- John Calvin Institutes 3.11

According to John Calvin...justification has two parts: (1) The remission of sins, and (2) the imputation of Christ's righteousness.

“the remission of sins and the imputation of Christ’s righteousness” -- Calvin, Institutes 3.11.2

In regard to the timing of that imputation...

when Paul speaks of the Scripture, “foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith,” (Gal. 3:8), what other meaning can you give it than that God imputes righteousness by faith? (red is mine) -- John Calvin, Institutes 3.11

In other words, Justification is imputed at the moment of faith. Calvin goes on to say that this justification involves the forgiveness of sins.

"It involves the forgiveness of sins (Rom 4:6-8). Sin is no longer reckoned to the believer’s account." John Calvin, Institutes 3.11

We can know that Calvin is correct through another verse in Ephesians 2:3.

(Eph 2:3 NKJV)
3 among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, just as the others.

Hence, those elect were once "by nature children of wrath" (Eph 2:3) until justified though faith.

Of course, depending on what kind of Calvinist one is, will dictate whether one accepts this analysis.

Keep chasing God's truth as if it were hidden treasure

 

[Brightfame52]

I am afraid it is you who does not get it.

There is no such thing as eternal justification... there is only the concept of justification.

The concept of justification... had to be actualized... for justification to become a fact.
.

You still dont get it

 

[Brightfame52]

I am afraid it is you who cannot see... you cannot show a single example of a legal guilt (charge) being repeated regards the elect.

I have asked you to support your claim of double jeopardy... you failed to provide any evidence.

No evidence of double jeopardy makes your claim fraudulent.
.

I cant help you with what you cannot see

 

[Brightfame52]

Hello Brightfame52, hope your week was a good one.

Saw your post and read a little bit of it. Thought I would give my 2 cents. I apologize if I restate something someone else said, I have not read all the posts in this thread.

John Calvin writes:

According to John Calvin...justification has two parts: (1) The remission of sins, and (2) the imputation of Christ's righteousness.

In regard to the timing of that imputation...

In other words, Justification is imputed at the moment of faith. Calvin goes on to say that this justification involves the forgiveness of sins.

We can know that Calvin is correct through another verse in Ephesians 2:3.

Hence, those elect were once "by nature children of wrath" (Eph 2:3) until justified though faith.

Of course, depending on what kind of Calvinist one is, will dictate whether one accepts this analysis.

Keep chasing God's truth as if it were hidden treasure

Thanks for your thoughts but i disagree. This is nowhere close to analyzing the eternal phase of Justification which Im advocating

 

[Brightfame52]

Acts 13:48

48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.

All those or the "as many as" were ordained to eternal life, were eternally Justified, they had already Christ Righteousness imputed to them, and their sins imputed to Him in the counsels of the Everlasting Covenant ! To have been ordained to eternal life is not a time or temporal doing, it was accomplished in Eternity by God based upon the Lamb slain from the foundation ! 1 Pet 1:20

20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,

Rev 13:8

8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain[for the sins of the elect] from the foundation of the world.

 

[Brightfame52]

Rom 8:29-30

The scripture teaches Eternal Justification in Rom 8:29-30

29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

Paul in these verses is not speaking so much as to what has or will transpire in time, but what has been accomplished and is a done deal in the Eternal Purpose of God. These things are done in His Purpose before the world began, and before we come to experience them in time.

The Prophecy of Isa 53 of the suffering servant proves the basis of Eternal Justification, by placing all the events of His suffering in the past tense, not the future tense, because Isiah's Prophecy was declaring the decree of God.

Yes, I know that the events would have an accomplishment in time, but that would only be the manifestation of what was a done deal from the standpoint of God's Eternal Purpose ! Ecclesiastes 3:15

15That which hath been[In God's Eternal Purpose] is now; and that which is to be hath already been[In God's Eternal Purpose]; and God requireth that which is past.

 

[Brightfame52]

More on Eternal Justification !

Before the world began God saved and called [named] His Elect with a calling of Grace given them in Christ from Eternity, 2 Tim 1:9-10

9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

10 But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel:

Now the word called in both 2 Tim 1:9 and Rom 8:30 are speaking about a calling or a naming that took place before the world began. It is the greek word kaleō and means:


to call i.e. to name, by name

a) to give a name to

1) to receive the name of, receive as a name

2) to give some name to one, call his name

b) to be called i.e. to bear a name or title (among men)

c) to salute one by name

They were named or called the Children of God by their Union with and being Placed in the Son of God. The Children of God Heb 2:13-14

13 And again, I will put my trust in him. And again, Behold I and the children which God hath given me.

14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;

They were named or called Children before partaking of flesh and blood in Adam !

Yes, before the world began, before the foundations thereof were laid, God named all His Chosen the Children of God, even at that date they were sanctified or set apart from all others who would populate the world Jude 1:1

1 Jude, the servant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James, to them that are sanctified by God the Father, and preserved in Jesus Christ, and called:

And so being called or named as Children in the Eternal decree of Election in Christ, they were Justified then in God's Eternal decree, or named in the Everlasting Covenant for their Surety of the Covenant. 2

 

[Brightfame52]

More on Eternal Justification !

Now all who were named or called, at the same time, by the same Divine Purpose and Decree, Justified by the Grace of God, given them in Christ Jesus 2 Tim 1:9, through the redemption of Christ Blood, as the Lamb slain from or before the foundation of the world.

Rom 3:24

24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

Rev 13:8

8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

The trespass they would commit in time, first in Adam their head, and their personal sins when after they are born sinners, they were never laid to their Charge legally, and because of non imputation they were already forgiven of all sin, for David writes of that Ps 32:1-2

1 Blessed is he whose transgression is forgiven, whose sin is covered.

2 Blessed is the man unto whom the LORD imputeth not iniquity, and in whose spirit there is no guile. See Rom 4:7-8 also !

They also were declared Righteous by Imputation of Christ Righteousness, that He would faithfully work out in Time. All this was accomplished before one speck of dust was created to this world !

 

[Brightfame52]

In God's Eternal Purpose, the Elect were predestinated to be conformed to the Image of His Son Rom 8:29

29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

So this Fact tells us that God already reckoned them as Sons, so they were Justified in His Eternal Decree, He viewed them in Christ, His Only Begotten Son. This means consequently, all their sins were forgiven before they were committed, the curse withdrawn before it was incurred, God's Justice completely satisfied before the Law was broken, they were Justified in Christ before they sinned in Adam, accepted or Highly Favored in the Beloved before they were made sinners. The Redemption of the Elect was done, accomplished, when the Father accepted Christ as their Surety, and had respect unto His sacrifice, as the Lamb slain from the foundation ! Rev 13:8

8And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

 

[Brightfame52]

One would have to be blind completely not to see that scriptures indicates that Justification of God's Elect by God's Grace is an Eternal Act. This Truth is plainly an Apostles Doctrine and not something just read into scripture. In Both 2 Tim 1:9 and Rom 8:30 Paul is showing the Eternal Purpose of God, by which all things work according to Eph 1:11. He[Paul] is declaring the Decree of God, and in God's decree, all of the Elect were Saved, Justified, and Glorified from Everlasting in Christ.

 

[Brightfame52]

Accepted in the Beloved, When ?

Paul who taught the Eternal Justification of all who are True Believers in Christ, who come to believe in Him in time, that they were accepted in the beloved before the foundation of the world, in accordance with having been Chosen in Him at that date Eph 1:3-6

3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:

4 According as[even as] he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.

The verb accepted is the greek word charitoō and means:


to make graceful

a) charming, lovely, agreeable

2) to peruse with grace, compass with favour

3) to honour with blessings

This has to do with the gracious and favorable acceptance of the Chosen Ones of their Persons in the Beloved, which is Christ. Now when was this ? Why its when He chose them in Him before the foundation of the World. Remember this acceptance is according to and to the Praise of the Glory of His Grace to them. When was this Grace given to them ? 2 Tim 1:9

9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

It was given them in Christ Jesus before the world began.

As such, God considered them Righteous, if Righteous, then Justified. This is what is meant by being Justified by His Grace.

Rom 3:24

Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

This Justification by Grace here had nothing to do with being done in time, yes it was through or on the grounds of the Redemption that is in Christ Jesus, meaning His Death, but, God reckoned that as a done deal in His Eternal Purpose and so He was the Lamb slain from the foundation Rev 13:8

8And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

No, the cross had not occurred yet in the temporal, but it did in the Eternal, because God's realization of things are always present to Him and Eternal. 2

 

[Brightfame52]

The Book of Life !

Eternal Justification is taught in scripture by the fact that there is a book of Life with names inscribed in it from the foundation of the world Rev 13:8;17:8. These are the ones that God called or named in His Eternal Purpose Rom 8:30;2 Tim 1:9. In both of these verses the word called is the greek word kaleō and means:


to call

a) to call aloud, utter in a loud voice

b) to invite

2) to call i.e. to name, by name

a) to give a name to

to receive the name of, receive as a name

2) to give some name to one, call his name

b) to be called i.e. to bear a name or title (among men)

c) to salute one by name

Thats why its written that Jesus calls His own Sheep by Name Jn 10:3

To him the porter openeth; and the sheep hear his voice: and he calleth his own sheep by name, and leadeth them out.

See, they were named in the Lambs Book of Life before the foundation, and they are His Own !

The Book of Life is the Book of Election, it knows and names everyone Chosen in Christ before the foundation Eph 1:4. Its the names of all for whom Christ was made a Surety for in the Everlasting Covenant Heb 7:22;13:20.

It is the book of all whom have laid to their charge the Righteousness of their Surety Jer 23:6;33:16

In this book are the names of all for whom the Surety was slain for them from the foundation Rev 13:8. In this book are all the names of all whom God has Promised Eternal Life Titus 1:1-2


1Paul, a servant of God, and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God's elect, and the acknowledging of the truth which is after godliness;

2In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;

1 Jn 2:25

25And this is the promise that he hath promised us, even eternal life.

This was their Eternal Justification, their sins were never laid to their Charge, but unto Christ.

These are the foreknown of God, His People Rom 11:2

2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel saying,