Eschatological Views

[Just The Facts]

Hi

I do not care what Bible expositors say ............like they have the oil...................Dad I tell you the Truth this is as I have said..........ask the Spirit to guide you in truth and you will see this is the Truth. This is more then a parable it is a prophecy.

The church that Christianity followed is not the last one it is this one

18: And unto the angel of the church in Thyatira write; These things saith the Son of God, who hath his eyes like unto a flame of fire, and his feet are like fine brass;19: I know thy works, and charity, and service, and faith, and thy patience, and thy works; and the last to be more than the first.

20: Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols.

21: And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not.

22: Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into Great Tribulation, except they repent of their deeds.

This is the Church or spirit that the Christian world has followed in fact God threw this (Spirit) this harlot into a Bed and look who joined here

1: And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither; I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great harlot that sitteth upon many waters: 2: With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication,

Did you know that Jezebel is a reference to the Female part of Pagan Trinity of the False God of Tyre………….Hey but that would mean that the World has followed after the False God of Tyre……..


Isa 23:17: And it shall come to pass after the end of seventy years, that the LORD will visit Tyre, and she shall turn to her hire, and shall commit fornication with all the kingdoms of the world upon the face of the earth.

Now back to revelation 2: notice what Jesus says he will do to all who climb in bed with her. The great tribulation…………………….and look at how Jesus closes this one.

26: And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:
27: And he shall rule them with a rod of iron;

This false Church or Doctrine will rule the nations…………………. as we are told by Rev and isaiah…………….. However he that Overcomes will be with Jesus when he begins to rule with an rod of iron.

 

[ephesians2:8-9]

Just the facts,

Please, understand that Revelation 17:5 "THE MOTHER OF THE HARLOTS" (it was capitalized in the original Greek text). in all capital letters in that verse indicates a title belonging to a person.

Such a title existed long before John's time and it was attatched to the chief goddess of Babylon by her worshippers as a title of honor and sacred holiness. The concept of salvation by sexual relations with the temple priestess who became possessed by Ishtar during the sexual worship event and thus the worshipper became One-With-The-Goddess and in doing so had their sins 'washed' away and they briefly became divine.

Ishtar's priests/priestesses invented the idea of coinage - money - instead of chickens, cows or baskets of grain as a thank-you offering that could be more easily utilized by an urban organization. Thus Ishtar's religion was the first to ever mint coinage-money, long before governments ever began to do so.

Jezebel was a follower and worshipper of Ishtar according to the Biblical accounts. Elijah battled with the prophets of Baal, which was a consort of Ishtar by some historical accounts. Baal btw, was also known as Marduk, Mardok, Merodach by some local dialects of Sumer/Babylon. In Hebrew, Baal actually Aramaic or Bel with the other being Hebrew. I get the two mixed up as to which was which, but of course meaning stays the same.

Now no matter the name, Baal, Mardok was the God of War and his
planet was Mars. His religion was picked up by the Greeks and called Mars. Ditto for the Romans - who copied everything the Greeks did. Ditto also for Ishtar worship except that the Greeks originally transliterated her name - Astarte - and later it devolved into Aphrodite. As the Mother of the Harlots moved westward in her evangelism of the world, she was initially accepted by the Romans in about 600 BC according to Roman historian Cicero by the name Libertas - i.e. goddess of Liberty or i.e. Freedom.

According to the Freemasonic doctrines as written by Albert Pike and also mentioned by Manly P. Hall, Libertas was borrowed by the Romans for her doctrines on Liberty. At that time until about the time of Caesar her doctrine was limited to that aspect of her deity. She was a prostitute-cult religion in which the worshippers engaged in sexual relations for the forgiveness of sins, just as in Babylon.

This was especially a religion for Roman slaves. They prayed to her for Liberty and Forgiveness. Yet in Babylon she held many doctrinal aspects, including the goddess of Freedom and Liberty.

She was also worshipped by immigrants to Babylon because in part it was a way to gain some standing of equality with the nationals. Ishtar was also called teh goddess of Love, goddess of war, justice, peace, goddess or Queen of Heaven, also associated with Venus but she and the Anunnaki reportedly came from the Sirius star system. As such she was one of the beni-ha-helohim -- "sons of god" who came down and co-mated with human females. However, some fallen angels apparently took a different tack and manifested as females.

Today, Ishtar is conveyed to us as the Statue of Liberty and the Statue of Freedom which is atop the US Capitol Dome. Both are artistic renderings of Ishtar, thanks to the sculptors who were Freemasons and who admitted this was their intent. In fact, it is a secret and hidden doctrine within only the higher levels of Freemasonry.

Dr. Marvin Trachtenberg in his book "The Statue of Liberty" links this together with Freemasonry's doctrines of Libertas. But he goes one step further in citing their dogma of Libertas stating that her crown of 7 spikes is to reflect the occult enlightenment of the sun-god Utu (also known as Shamash in alternate Babylonian -chaldean, I think, dialect). This occult enlightenment would reflect of a spike of her crown to each of the 7 "hora" - greek word for hora - indicates the doctrine was passed down through the writings of the Greeks in the Eleysian or Euleysian Mystery Doctrines of Pythagoras
and other secret occult witchcraft doctrines, See Albert Pike's "Morals and Dogma" & the works of Manly P. Hall. Anyways, the enlightenment of Utu would glint of a crown spike to one of 7 continents (hora) of the Earth and one of the 7 Seas.

Now keep in mind that the Greek term there "hora" is the same one found in Revelation 17:9 for which KJV and NASV translate as "mountain" but NIV and other modern or New-Age versions call "hill." Many mistake this as a reference to Rome and her 7 hills. This is invalid and incorrect.

The correct use of the term for 7 hills of Rome - which was almost never used except in about a half dozen cases until 2nd or 3rd century A.D. used a Greek term borrowed by the Greeks from the Romans which would be used for the 7 'hills' of Rome. That word is "Bounos" derived from Sicily or Crete and was used to describe the 7 hills of Rome.

The word "hora" was also attatched to deserts, wildernesses as well as mountains. The original Greek root word meant "large land mass." The Greek worshippers of the Mystery religions of Ishtar, Baal, etc used the word for each of the 7 continents of the earth because of its root meaning for large land mass.

Thus Ishtar and Ishtar worship -- Liberty and Freedom will be a religion in which the last of the Super Power nations will have her for a symbol and will spread her doctrines of Liberty and Freedom (taken of course to excess). Remember Rev 17:!8 says that the woman IS the mega-city that reigneth over the Kings of the Earth.

 

[boughtwithaprice]

This is very much like the beginning of what often happens to good threads. It starts off on topic, then we start going off on tangents, and before we know it we're arguing about something that has nothing to do with the topic. I'm not saying we're necessarily off topic yet, but this is how it pretty much always goes. And I know I'm not a mod, but it's a HUGE pet peeve (however it's spelled) of mine, and I hate seeing good threads go down the tube.

Well, I am a mod, and your peeve is my peeve, too So far this thread appears to be within CF rules. People are discussing different views, not flaming. I will be watching.................


If you find a questionable post, report it

 

[Dad Ernie]

Greetings Just the Facts,

I do not care what Bible expositors say ............like they have the oil...................Dad I tell you the Truth this is as I have said..........ask the Spirit to guide you in truth and you will see this is the Truth. This is more then a parable it is a prophecy.

Perhaps as you continue in your studies, rightly dividing the Word of Truth, you may see the error or the doctrine which you hold.

Blessings,

Dad Ernie

 

[applepowerpc]

I am a strong post-trib adherent, although I'm open to some mid-trib arguments. I am a strong Jerusalem=Babylon proponent. I sympathize with the partial preterist and historicist POV, and believe some prophecies were already fulfilled. I am weakly Amillenial; I can flip-flop sometimes to Premill. I lean toward the idealist POV re:the 144,000--all I think John is saying here is that both a remnant of Jews and Gentiles will be saved.

 

[Just The Facts]

Hi Dad

I use to believe as you but then I rightly divided the Word of Truth and left behind such doctrines of Demons.


16: As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.17: Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness. 18: But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen.

 

[Dad Ernie]

I am a strong post-trib adherent, although I'm open to some mid-trib arguments. I am a strong Jerusalem=Babylon proponent. I sympathize with the partial preterist and historicist POV, and believe some prophecies were already fulfilled. I am weakly Amillenial; I can flip-flop sometimes to Premill. I lean toward the idealist POV re:the 144,000--all I think John is saying here is that both a remnant of Jews and Gentiles will be saved.

Greetings applepowerpc,

You may want to give consideration to the following verses:

Revelation 7:9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;
Revelation 7:14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

It doesn't sound like a "remnant" to me.

Blessings,

Dad Ernie

 

[applepowerpc]

Ernie,

The remnant is the 144,000, not the multitude.

 

[Dad Ernie]

The remnant is the 144,000, not the multitude.

Greetings Applepowerpc,

This is your response, not mine:

I lean toward the idealist POV re:the 144,000--all I think John is saying here is that both a remnant of Jews and Gentiles will be saved.

Unless, of course, you misstated.

Blessings,

Dad Ernie

 

[Zorobabel]

I'm an amillennialist like the original author. I believe there will be the final rebellion and I'm earnestly waiting for the 2nd coming, the appearing and great glory of Jesus Christ.

 

[studyhound]

Well **streaching out** this looks like as good as any place for my first post.

**remember short and sweet**

I am a amill. Orthodox Preterists (part-pret).

Studyhound =)

 

[Covenant Heart]

We declare for a Gospel-Age millennium. Regarding the gospel apocalypse, orthodox preterist. As for the Revelation, we claim the ideal interpretative system as our own. An important part of John’s strategy is the creation of a symbolic world in order to redirect our imaginative response to the world and life in it.

The Revelation is a majestic and profoundly theological work that is an apocalypse, a prophecy, an epistle and a worship manual at the same time. Justice must be done to this work according to each genre. This writer confesses that the Revelation is the answer to secularity (a modern-day heresy) that now bestrides God’s people. It is tragic that this book has been reduced to a surrealistic collage of predictions that (strangely enough) seem all to converge on our time (whenever we happen to live).

Many literary clues suggest a reading of this work that differs markedly from that of the popular Christian mind. An illustration of this is seen in Re 21:9 which is a verbatim citation of Re 17:1. Surely John intends a parody between the great harlot and the bride of the Lamb. But wait! This would mess with our prophetic odysseys! Better forget that!

Blessings!

Covenant Heart

 

[inhimitrust]

I am just a believer that believes the whole bible has been fullfilled. I read it thru last May when God entered my life and hadn't read a book in about 10 years before that. The bible is the only book I read and I read about a book out of it in 2 days. Paul's epistles can be read thru in less than 2 hours. I generally try to read a "book" out of the bible at one time or sitting, to better get an
understanding of the context of it, and that works extremely well I think. I alway pray to God before I start reading it for wisdome and knowledge of His words. I read from genesis thru revelation as one complete book. Revelation is indeed one of the most devinely written book in the bible, and once I saw what it represented, it made the bible complete for me and more undertandable.
It will probably take me about a year to completely interpret revelation, as I do it on my own and have to cross reference the whole bible, so if anyone would like to help and have a vast knowledge of the OT, especially the 12 tribes before and after the split of Solomon, I would welcome it. Only ones that see most of the bible fullfilled please.
Thanks

 

[Pacigoth13]

Eschatology should not be entirely restricted to the future and/or 'end of the world'. Religious language is necessarily mythological and necessarily eschatological, the Christian Bible included.

The religious language of 1st century Christianity was eschatological in that they placed Jesus at the centre, at the climax of all fulfillment. Jesus is the eschatos, he is the final prophet of God; and as God's son he initiated the kin-dom of God. By this, I mean in importance and fulfillment, NOT in timeframe (preterists are right to say that the "end" is found in the time of Jesus, but the "end" in mind is not the 'end of the world' or the 'second coming'.

Christian eschatology is found rooted in Jesus and the way he saw his own divine vocation to die for the sin of the world, to do for us what we could not do for ourselves. The parable of the vineyard where finally the owner's son is sent matches Jesus and his first century mission. Jesus was God's own son and the world was going to kill him. And yet, this event, this love in the face of such hate and pain, this sacred suicide of God, was the means by which the people of God (including Jesus himself) would be vindicated.

Jesus retold the story of Daniel 7.13-14 to refer to himself. In his story, the persecution was directed at him, and he would be persecuted. But God would vindicate him, as a martyr, God would give him back his body (resurrection, and in doing so, begin the final process for all). In his story, Jesus sees himself 'coming on the clouds on heaven' metaphorically to designate his own coming to God, the Ancient of Days. Thus, Jesus spoke about his going from earth to 'heaven' not the other way around.

The early church misunderstood what Jesus said about himself, albeit through a myth of innocence, of working providence in their war torn world to mean that Jesus was coming for them (Paul saw it originally as impending in his generation, though later realised his timing was off). Nevertheless, the entire hypothetical 'parousia' notion was invented by the early church, then projected back into Jesus' thought (as seen in the ways Matthew and Luke treat Mark's original) and then they abandoned it when they realised they were wrong.

We see a shift from the initial persecution of Jesus and his followers to the persecution of the early Jesus movement in the late first century. In it, Rome came close to wiping out the movement. John wrote about this in Revelation, the unvealing referring to the powers that be behind the persecution... he realised it was not Rome vs Christianity, a human ordeal, but that Paul was correct, we fight against powers and principalities, demons and the satan. To John, it was the holy Trinity against the satan and in his visions he sees the end result of God's dream for humanity and the world, where Jesus really is Lord, where the resurrection has happened and where all evil is either gone or "made new". It was written to give hope to persecuted Christians, and has nothing to do with the "future" of our world.

When I say the creeds, I say them with honesty, I just demythologise them as I go along. The same with "He will come again in glory". This is not, for me, about the 'second coming' in the same sense as what futurists mean by it; but I do believe that when Jesus prayer comes true 'on earth as it is in heaven' that Jesus will be with creation as true king, true ruler, true Christ and messiah... in this sense, one could say the king has arrived.

Hope this helps... ps. I already stated that I believe in the creeds, so please don't go around saying I don't.

 

[inhimitrust]

Well **streaching out** this looks like as good as any place for my first post.

**remember short and sweet**

I am a amill. Orthodox Preterists (part-pret).

Studyhound =)

So what does that mean in plain english? Your still a christian, right?

 

[Philip]

So what does that mean in plain english? Your still a christian, right?

There are many Christians who are amillenial (believe that the 1000 years is a figurative length of time and that the Kingdom is now). There are many Christians who are partial preterists (believe that much of Revelation has been fulfilled). There is much overlap between these two groups.

 

[inhimitrust]

There are many Christians who are amillenial (believe that the 1000 years is a figurative length of time and that the Kingdom is now). There are many Christians who are partial preterists (believe that much of Revelation has been fulfilled). There is much overlap between these two groups.

So why use any label at all? Either your a christian and desciple of Christ and God or your not, right?. I always get confused with those terms.

 

[Philip]

So why use any label at all? Either your a christian and desciple of Christ and God or your not, right?. I always get confused with those terms.

Labels are an easy way to summarize beliefs. No all Christians agree on all matters. Why should we hide these differences?

 

[Just The Facts]

Hi

the reality is there is only One Total truth an that is the Book itself.

I agree the labels just help people understand what you believe on a wide varity of subjects.

So in him

quote
I am just a believer that believes the whole bible has been fulfilled.

end Quote

So judgement day has happened.???????????????????

If this is what you believe then you should not even be posting in this section of the Forum because if you read the first thread you will see.that view is not allowed in this section………… that is a full Preterist view.

I think you would like this web site www.theologyweb.com It is full of people who believe as you do. many have studied for many years and could help show you some more doctrine that fit in with the over all picture of what you believe.

 

[good4u]

So now I get to add a view that has not been discussed as it is the most closely accurate to the totality of Scripture.

It is the Pre-wrath position.

Any eschatological view is generally concerned with the "snatching away" of the church from the persecution of the Anti-Christ and when this will happen.

Pre-wrath states that the church will indeed suffer greatly under the persecuting hand of the Anti-Christ. But as my position so states the church will not endure the wrath of God as it is poured out upon the remaining wicked on the Day of the Lord which the Bible talks about extensively.

So add this to the mix of views. Until someone comes closer than this, I find this to be the most accurate of all until proven otherwise.