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Eschatological and Millennial Theories and their problems.

LittleLambofJesus

Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!
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We all know that verse by no Dave.........

All 3 Gospels are concerning the destruction of Jerusalem in 70ad...........including Revelation, for those with ears to hear and eyes to see......
Anyone that preaches any different is preaching a different Gospel of Christ.........

Matthew 24:1
And having gone forth, Jesus departed from the Temple, and his disciples came near to show him the buildings of the Temple,
Mark 13:1:

As Jesus was leaving the Temple, one of His disciples said to Him, “Teacher, look at the magnificent stones and buildings!”
Luke 21:5
As some of the disciples were remarking how the Temple was adorned with beautiful stones and consecrated gifts, Jesus said,

Matthew 23:37
“O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her!
Luke 13:34
“O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her!


Revelation 18:4:
And I hear another voice out of the heaven saying "come forth! out of Her the People of Me.
.....................

Another fact is, the Temple is never mentioned in Revelation.....only the Sanctuary, both of which were of course in Jerusalem....

Revelation 11:
1
And was given to me a reed like-as rod saying "rouse!/egeirai <1453> (5669) and measure! the Sanctuary of the God and the Altar[golden?] and those worshipping in it.....
2 and the Court that is without the Sanctuary be casting out! outside, and thou mayest not measure it,
because it was given to the nations, and the holy city they shall tread down forty-two months;


http://www.bible.ca/pre-destruction70AD-george-holford-1805AD.htm

The day on which Titus encompassed Jerusalem, was the feast of the Passover.............

The Temple now presented little more than a heap of ruins;
 
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Dave L

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This is pure conjecture and not founded on scripture. Jesus told believers to flee when they saw the armies. The unbelievers stayed and suffered the worst tribulation the world ever knew or would ever know. And the petty few survivors, the Pharisees were led captive into all nations.
 
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DavidPT

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So I guess what happened to the Jews in the days of Hitler, that was nothing in comparison to what happened to the Jews in 70 AD?
 
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Dave L

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So I guess what happened to the Jews in the days of Hitler, that was nothing in comparison to what happened to the Jews in 70 AD?
Read Josephus and make the call. The Jews ate their young while the Romans ripped open any trying to leave the city looking for gold they might have swallowed. There were so many crosses and crucifixions you could not count them.
 
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LittleLambofJesus

Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!
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So I guess what happened to the Jews in the days of Hitler, that was nothing in comparison to what happened to the Jews in 70 AD?
I don't think we have a count of the number of Jews killed throughout all of Israel during the Romans war against the Jew between 66-73 ad but I would assume the percentage is quite higher than the Jews killed during the holocaust, making it no less horrible.

But during the battle against the Jews in Jerusalem and surrounding Judea, Josephus records over a million Jews perished which would probably be a substantial percentage of the Jews living at that time in Israel?

http://www.bible.ca/pre-destruction70AD-george-holford-1805AD.htm
The Destruction of Jerusalem

Nero, having been informed of the defeat of Cestius, immediately appointed Vespasian, a man of tried valour, to prosecute the war against the Jews, who, assisted by his son Titus, soon collected at Ptolemais an. army of sixty thousand men. From hence, in the spring of 67 A. D. he marched into Judea, every where spreading the most cruel havoc and devastation ; the Roman soldiers, on various occasions, sparing neither infants nor the aged. For fifteen months Vespasian proceeded in this sanguinary career, during which period he reduced all the strong towns of Galilee, and the chief of those in Judea, destroying at least one hundred and fifty thousand of the inhabitants

The day on which Titus encompassed Jerusalem, was the feast of the Passover................

Of the Jews destroyed during the siege, Josephus reckons not less than ONE MILLION AND ONE HUNDRED THOUSAND, .................Not less than two thousand laid violent hands upon themselves.

Of the captives the whole was about NINETY-SEVEN THOUSAND.


........the tallest and most beautiful youths, together with several of the Jewish nobles were reserved by Titus to grace his triumphal entry into Rome.
After this selection, all above the age of seventeen were sent in chains into Egypt, to be employed there as slaves, [Deuteronomy 28:68]

or distributed throughout the empire to be sacrificed as gladiators in the amphitheatres ;
whilst those who were under this age, were exposed to sale.

Luke 21:24
And they shall be falling to mouth of sword and they shall be being led captive into all the nations.
And Jerusalem shall be being trodden by nations until which may be being filled times of nations.
[Deuteronomy 28:68/Reve 11:2/13:10]

Revelation 13:10

If any to-captivity into captivity is going away.
If any in sword to be killed, is binding him in sword to be killed.
Here is the endurance and the faith of the saints.

Deuteronomy 28:68
“And Yahweh will take you back to Egypt in ships, by the way of which I said to you, ‘You shall never see it again.'
And there you shall be offered for sale to your enemies as male and female slaves, but no one will buy you.”
[/quote]
 
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Douggg

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This is pure conjecture and not founded on scripture.
What part is conjecture? The fact is that the gospel has been spread to all the nations of the world over the past 2000 years. And in Daniel 12, containing the abomination of desolation, understanding of that prophecy has been sealed until the end times.

Daniel 12:4 But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.

There is no conjecture.

And in the text of Matthew 24, it involves the entire planet, not just Jerusalem.

21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

______________________________________________________________

37 But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,

39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

"knew not" in the context of the end times, for the most part means "believe not".
 
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Dave L

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If you insert a gap into the 70 weeks, you make scripture lie. And all of your conjectures rest on this lie.
 
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Douggg

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If you insert a gap into the 70 weeks, you make scripture lie. And all of your conjectures rest on this lie.
If you do not insert the 2000 year gap into the 70 weeks to account for Jesus's first coming and His second coming - you make scripture a lie. And all of your conjectures rest on this lie.
 
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Biblewriter

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Should we let truth go, and not uphold it if it means "arguing"?
There is a distinct difference between respectful discussiont and childish argument.
 
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Dave L

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If you do not insert the 2000 year gap into the 70 weeks to account for Jesus's first coming and His second coming - you make scripture a lie. And all of your conjectures rest on this lie.
You are lying to do so. There is no gap. And Jesus is not antichrist as you make him out to be.
 
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Douggg

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You are lying to do so. There is no gap. And Jesus is not antichrist as you make him out to be.
You are lying to do so. There is a gap, the 70th week is separate. And Jesus is not the Antichrist as you make him out to be, as the prince who shall come.
 
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DavidPT

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You are lying to do so. There is no gap. And Jesus is not antichrist as you make him out to be.


It is you who are making Jesus out to be the AC because you are claiming the AC in Daniel 9:27 is meaning Jesus.

Daniel 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

Do you not see the part I have underlined in that verse? That is connected with this part----and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease

If Christ is meant in verse 27 there is zero involving His death that have anything to do with abominations. It is ludicrous to speak of Christ's death and resurrection, and abominations, within that same context. Anything involving Christ's death and resurrection don't belong in a context involving abominations. But if the AC is meant in verse 27 though, not an issue then.
 
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LittleLambofJesus

Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!
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If you insert a gap into the 70 weeks, you make scripture lie. And all of your conjectures rest on this lie.
If you do not insert the 2000 year gap into the 70 weeks to account for Jesus's first coming and His second coming - you make scripture a lie. And all of your conjectures rest on this lie.
You are lying to do so. There is no gap. And Jesus is not antichrist as you make him out to be.
You are lying to do so. There is a gap, the 70th week is separate. And Jesus is not the Antichrist as you make him out to be, as the prince who shall come.

There is a distinct difference between respectful discussiont and childish argument.
I would think so, except, on the eschatology board
Still waiting for reply to this post:

https://www.christianforums.com/thr...-their-problems.8071615/page-41#post-72945704
 
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LittleLambofJesus

Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!
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So what has this thread accomplished so far? I mean, it is already 41 pages long, with what looks to be a lot of "hot air" and little substance.........
 
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Douggg

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I would think so, except, on the eschatology board
There are some bad habits by some posters in this forum that need to be broken. Maybe if they see their habits in a mirror... I'm retired and have plenty of time. 24/7. I can keep this up forever.
 
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Biblewriter

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It is flat out wrong to even imagine that the ancient writers you cited were the judgment of the ancient church, as such. I have, on file, seven typewritten pages of quotations from truly ancient writers that put the Abomination of Desolation into the distant future.

These writers included Irenaeus, whose "Against Heresies" was the most widely circulated non-inspired book in the early church, and Hippolytus, who is called "the Father of Latin Christianity," as well as Cyprian and an unknown writer claimed to be Clement of Rome but thought to actually have been Clement the brother of Domatian.

In addition, many other writers from later dates also said the same thing. So the list of later writers attached here is basically meaningless.
 
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Douggg

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So what has this thread accomplished so far? I mean, it is already 41 pages long, with what looks to be a lot of "hot air" and little substance.........
One of the things I have found in life to be a truism... you can't help (most) people... by trying to explain or suggest something to them. It doesn't bother me as much as it used to. So I have made some personal progress, I feel. Jesus is coming and His reward is with him.

Jesus himself was amazed that in spite of all he did - they would not believe Him.
 
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Biblewriter

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You are lying to do so. There is no gap.
Two things were to happen after the sixty-two week second part of the account of the seventy weeks . And we know that both of them indeed happened exactly as explicitly stated. “Messiah” would “be cut off,” and “the people of the prince who is to come Shall destroy the city and the sanctuary.” Messiah was indeed cut off, and the city and the sanctuary were indeed destroyed. We know from history that these two events did not happen within a seven year period. Most historians feel that our calendar is in error, and the actual date of Jesus’ birth was 4 BC. Since Jesus lived thirty-three years, that puts his death in 29 A.D. But according to history, the city was not destroyed until 70 A.D., forty-one years after that. So even if there are small errors in the accepted dates of history, we absolutely know that “the city and the sanctuary” were not destroyed in the same week (seven year period) that our Lord was crucified. But we need to notice that both of these events are presented before the last week is even mentioned. So here we see an absolutely undeniable break in the scriptural account of the seventy weeks.
 
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Douggg

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LittleLambofJesus

Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!
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