Errors of Calvinism in Man-Centered Temporal Limits on God

[Laura Lee]

I'm writing a book on Time and Eternity that refutes, revises, and updates the 5 Points of Calvinism.

Let’s just step back and take a look at that theological system and it’s points:

1. Total Depravity (temporal man in temporal flesh in sin on temporal earth in time).
2. Unconditional Election (a man-centered view of election looking to the temporal flesh of temporal man in sin on temporal earth in time).
3. Limited Atonement (a man-centered view of the atonement focused not on Jesus and His body and blood… and His Eternal Spirit… but upon the temporal flesh of temporal man in sin on temporal earth in time.)
4. Irresistible Grace (a man centered view of the grace of God looking to the temporal flesh of temporal man in sin on temporal earth in time declaring his resistance in the flesh central and so meaningful it’s the first word of the doctrine)
5. Perseverance of the Saints (a man centered view… with everything all about Adam in flesh in time on earth… the temporal… and the eternal nature of the spirit born of God a complete mystery that just says, “we’ll make it because God said so!”)

The whole system of the 5 Points of Calvinism is all about the experience of man in flesh on earth in time… totally centered in man. It is a vision of man seen by those trapped in a temporal mind and lense of perception.

This doctrine gives God an acknowledgement that He is Sovereign and in control, but never gives God the pre-eminence in the 5 Point system itself. The whole system is all about man in time on earth in flesh trying to get to Heaven someday. It’s man-centered, sin-conscious, fear-based, and says, “God intersects with us out of eternity in time”… as it talks all about man, man, man within the first Genesis creation that is predestined to be destroyed.

The 5 Points of Calvinism are handicapped by man-centeredness. The 5 Points are so limited and man-centered that the whole “A-Z” of this system is all about the experience of man within a temporal earth that is predestined to be destroyed.

Man starts out at a point in fall and ruin in sin in flesh on temporal earth in time (Total Depravity). Looking to man, it attempts to explain why some are saved in human lifetime and not and declares election “unconditional”.

Well, when all one is looking at is man in a man-centered framework… all one notices is that the flesh of all mankind in sin in Adam in his fall in time on earth in flesh is the same. It’s a man-centered pronouncement of all fallen flesh is equal so election is “Unconditional!”.

When everything is from the position of mankind in flesh in time on earth… then the atonement does not stand “on it’s own”. Rather, the atonement is bent so far outside of it’s eternal context through a man-centered and temporal view, that the atonement is declared “limited”.

Man is the measure of all things and God Himself on the cross is limited in the Calvinist view. The Calvinist mindset looks to the flesh of man in time on earth and declares that God “limited Himself” or “is limited” on the cross. (Limited Atonement).

Grace is all about us and our feelings and response in the man-centered view of grace. Grace is not simply grace. No, grace is all about man himself in the man-centered view. So, in the Calvinist system, God’s grace seen from the man/flesh-centered, sin-conscious, and fear-based view of a sinner according to the flesh is deemed “irresistible”. (Irresistible Grace).

Salvation is spoken in terms of man in his human experience on earth in flesh in time in a man-centered view that declares that “we shall persevere!”. (Perseverance of the Saints).

And that is all.

All that matters in this view is man, man, man… and 5 Points of doctrine. And that is all.

Everything in this system is centered in man in flesh on earth in time. Man in the flesh and time limit God. The Calvinist posits as if God’s purpose in Jesus Christ was a temporal purpose in a temporal creation, rather than an eternal purpose and grace in Jesus Christ as God. So, of course, God in this view is limited to a deadline of man in flesh in time to fulfill His purpose.

The Calvinist takes the pulse of a man on earth in flesh in time and declares, “He’s dead! There’s no pulse!”… and that is supposed to be the end of it. Little notice did they take of Jesus Christ on the cross destroying sin not in part but the whole as He gave up the ghost.

To the Calvinist, the resurrection power of Jesus Christ in His Endless Life and offering Himself up to God the Father by the eternal Spirit notwithstanding, salvation now depends on the flesh of a sinner and the beating of his heart. Rather than looking to the cross itself to see the body of Jesus incorruptible at His death in payment for the sins of all the world to determine the extent of the atonement, the Calvinist takes the pulse of the corpse of a dead sinner as their standard of the power of the blood of Jesus.

To the Calvinist, the atonement does not stand on it’s own… the power of the blood of Jesus does not stand on it’s own. Why, if so! ~~ that would make God not man the center of their theological system… and their system would collapse in it’s other points!! So, says the Calvinist, God must be removed from the center of this theological system and replaced with man!! Then we can declare the atonement “limited” by the corpse of a reprobate sinner who died in his sins!!

To the Calvinist there are two primary “touchpoints” of their doctrine:
1. Adam in his flesh in time on earth in his fall into sin and death;
2. A reprobate sinner whose heart stops beating so that “the clock stops!” at his death through sin.

There you have the problem with Calvinism in a nutshell: It’s man-centered on a temporal earth in time in death and sin. The Calvinist system has no place in the system for God Himself to be the center of the theological system God Himself shared in the Holy Bible: His own plan.

Rather than standing on the sure foundation of Jesus Christ alone and God’s eternal purpose in Him, as the Resurrection and the Life, the Calvinist declares, “The devil was not destroyed on the cross! We see people die in their sins!. The atonement is limited!” But that’s not what the Bible says.

To the Calvinist, their system begins with the fall of mankind in sin in Adam on earth in time. The power of mankind in sin on earth in time – the power of death - is greater than the power of the Endless Life and eternal Spirit of God the Son dying on the cross for the sins of all the world and rising again.

The level of thought of the Calvinist mind declares that the grave can defeat the plan of God. In man-centeredness with a focus on sin and death in fall and ruin, they review the grave of a reprobate man who died in his sins. They forget the resurrection power of the Lord Jesus Christ. Their minds can only see A-Z in man in flesh on earth in time… as if there is no such thing as resurrection power in Jesus Christ.

 

[Laura Lee]

Part 2.

The body of a dead sinner is of greater import to the Calvinist in this temporal view of theology centered in the fallen flesh of mankind in sin than the crucified, buried, resurrected, ascended, and returning body of the Lord Jesus Christ.

“Time stops!” in their minds and then is the bodily return of Jesus Christ. Like Jesus showed up late or something! Like, the Last Day has already happened!! Game called!! Jesus can do nothing!! “The limit of time has passed!” they believe. This is why their mindset and theological system is, of course, man-centered and time-based rather than an eternal whole counsel plan centered in Jesus Christ our Lord alone.

There’s no power in the body and blood of Jesus on the Last Day in resurrection power in their minds. Rather than an eternal purpose and plan in Jesus Christ, the entire Calvinist system limits the Word of God to the flesh of man. According to the Calvinist system, everything started in Adam in flesh on earth in time and is all about mankind in his flesh in time.

Those who die in their sins have died. That’s it. Game over. The devil has a “checkmate”. Jesus didn’t destroy the devil on the cross, and there is nothing that can be done for those who have died in their sins. Well, that’s not what the Bible says. However, anyone with a focus on man in time on earth in flesh making “his pulse” the center of their doctrine… and who don’t instead look to Jesus on the cross… the atonement and His resurrection… well ever and always miss the remaining revelation of the eternal whole counsel plan of God revealed in the Holy Bible..

Hebrews 9:26 for then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself. 27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment: 28 so Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

To the fleshly minded, “it is appointed unto men once to die”. Case closed. Game over. The devil has a “checkmate”. It’s as if they cannot see that Jesus Christ has all power over death itself having died in the place of all mankind and risen from the dead. They can only see Hebrews 9:27a… never noticing that for this cause Jesus Christ died on our behalves taking away the sin of the whole world. Man-centered theologians build their whole theology on taking the pulse of a dead sinner saying, “No pulse! There’s our theology! Based on the dead flesh of a sinner!”. They pronounce their human judgment as if the flesh of a dead sinner and his evil works are all truth of sound doctrine… and the foundation of their theological system. And, unfortunately, it is the foundation of their theological system and why they are so limited in their vision and comprehension of sound doctrine.

God’s entire Biblical theological system, and Kingdom in Heaven, is entirely by grace and is based solely on Jesus Christ alone and manifested in His body and blood in the atonement as well as His soon coming return. Jesus Christ in His the body and blood took all the sins of the world upon Himself, died incorruptible in His body (His body did not see decay), rose again, ascended, is returning, will destroy the entire first creation, and make all things new.

What Jesus Christ accomplished in His body on the cross manifests fully in power of extent only in full manifestation thereof at His return. To look to the dead corpse of a sinner who died in his sins as the measure of the power and extent of the atonement is a horrifically man-centered, fleshly, worldly, and temporal theology.

These just do not believe the Bible when it declares that Jesus Christ destroyed the devil on the cross in His body; and at the manifestation of the Son of God at His full bodily return… will destroy the devil then with the brightness of His coming.

Why do they disbelieve what the Bible says? Because the limit of the Calvinist system of theology in it’s 5 Points is man-centered, worldly, and temporal rather than Christ-centered, Heavenly, and eternal.

Calvinists may not believe that their system is temporal and man-centered, but it is. In fact, we are all temporal and man-centered to varying degree. We’re fallen and our view is limited. But God is Holy and He not limited.

The Calvinist view is so temporal and man-centered… so limits God in His eternal Spirit… so focused on flesh and sin… that the Calvinist imagines that God Himself is as limited to time and flesh and man in the cross and in His body and blood as God made a man. The Calvinist looks to time and the flesh of man rather than what God Himself as God made a man did in eternal power on the cross and declares, “The atonement is limited!”

If the Life of God in Christ and the eternal Spirit of God is limited, the atonement is limited. We don’t look to the flesh of man in time on earth in sin and determine the reach and extent and power of the atonement of God made a man on the cross. Any such view is, of course, temporal and carnal centered in man in flesh.

This view makes time itself, and the flesh of man, the master of the Sovereign Creator who is Himself Eternity. Can time limit Eternity? Can the flesh of man limit the eternal Spirit of God? Can the devil inhibit God with such power that God is placed in a cage “of His own making” by God having created evil?

Do these people really imagine that there is a limit on God who is Eternity and the Sovereign Creator of all that we see? That God will be held in a cage and limited by that which He Himself has created?

Do they believe that God Himself was so short-sighted that He created evil and darkness, generating time, and now His eternal power as God is limited to what is produced in the flesh of man within the bounds of his human time?

Is man according to the flesh, is the devil, and is time now the master of the Lord God Almighty in the minds of those who declare the atonement limited?
Is it possible for the Creator Himself to create something of greater power than Himself by which He could be limited by consent or consequence?

Can the Life of God Himself be limited by the flesh, this world, the devil, and the time of the ages of this world?

There is no honor given to God when God in any way is declared limited either by persons lying to declare His consent to same or a consequence of His foolishness in creating something of greater power than His power as Creator. God would be foolish to create something of greater power than His own so that once it is created, now has inherent power to eternally limit the manifestation of His Life and eternal Spirit.

If anything can be created that can be given consent to be of greater power than God Himself… or in creation becomes of greater power than God Himself… then God is not all powerful in practice. If God is not all powerful in practice, He has altered His State of Being so that He no longer has the inherent power of God to be all powerful.

That’s like saying that God had 100% power over all that He created, then decided to give away a percent of His power. He gave 1% of His power, unrestricted and unrestrained by His own Godhead, to a creation over which He had no further rulership power and authority, no control, at that 1% level.

Well then if so, God, having given such consent, now finds Himself at only a 99% level of power. God is no longer 100% powerful, all powerful, by the foolishness of His own consent. He has ceased from an attribute of His power… and His Godhead has been reduced by 1%. Moreover, that individual at the 1% level in relation to God has power over God Himself to do as he wills unrestricted and unrestrained in any manner by God. I believe that was the purpose and intent of the devil in his rebellion. The devil preaches that he was successful. The scripture declares he was not.

No One who has only 99% Godhead can declare Himself God over those who have that 1% power above His own.

To declare that God is God but is at “less than” 100% power… and is limited… is to deny the reality of what being God comprises: 100% power as God and Creator over all that He has created.

To declare the atonement limited is to deny the power of God and declare that God is “less than” fully 100% God in rulership power and authority over all that He has created.

If God limited Himself in the atonement… He is a limited God who is not fully Sovereign over all that He has created. The doctrines of Calvinism declare that God is 100% Sovereign. Calvinists are proven inconsistent in their beliefs and conviction when they declare the “Limited God of the Limited Atonement”. Calvinists are declaring that the Endless Life of God is limited by the fallen flesh of man; and that the eternal Spirit of God is limited by a timeframe they imagine; and that Jesus Christ as God on the cross was much too limited by the devil himself to destroy the devil in His body on the cross.

Limited Atonement declares that God Himself is not Sovereign over the devil but, rather, is limited by the devil. No matter how Calvinists deny what they have stated… “Limited Atonement” inherently declares a limit upon God imposed by the flesh of man, the devil, and time.

No such limit can be imposed upon God by the minds of mere mortal men.

No such limit exists.

If God had no power to destroy out of existence the evil He created, then God would be a fool for creating evil in the first place. God eternally limited Himself by evil in it’s creation, for God would have limited Himself eternally in His manifest omnipresence of sanctification by His Spirit in direct rule over all creation.

If God had no power or plan to destroy out of existence the evil He created, then God would have imprisoned Himself in His creation by creating something contrary to Himself that He could not destroy; and that would eternally limit the manifestation of His glory in His Holiness by the sanctification of His Spirit in all creation. If so, then God would be a fool for creating evil in the first place.

There is no wise God who would limit Himself eternally in any way. God would create evil with the full plan to fully destroy it out of existence. Thus, He would eternally rule in the full manifestation of His glory in His Holiness sanctifying all His creation in His Spirit for His glory throughout all eternity.

Minds that are blinded by the god of this world (as we all are to varying degree through fall) only imagine the power of sin to exist eternally… where no such power exists. This book will set forth the doctrine of the full destruction of the devil on the cross in the body of Jesus Christ to the glory of God the Father.

There is no darkness that exists eternally and any such statement darkness exists eternally having the power of eternal life is oxymoronic.

Jesus Christ offered His body and blood on the cross as the sacrifice for our sins by the eternal Spirit to God the Father.

The Calvinist view has compressed God Himself who is Eternity and the eternal Spirit into a salvation limited by the flesh of man, this world, the devil, and time. The Calvinist view has compressed God Himself who is the Life into a salvation limited by the flesh of man, this world, the devil and time. The Life, the blood, the Spirit of God Himself is limited in power and in the atonement in their view.

They’ve built a house that the wind blows down. The Calvinist theological framework is not founded in all points on the only sure foundation of the Lord Jesus Christ alone. Yet, this error in foundational doctrine in the Calvinist system can only be revealed by Time and Eternity being revealed through scripture.

 

[AlephBet]

As you examine the life of Adam, know who he is.

Luke 3

the son of Kenan, 38 the son of Enosh,
the son of Seth, the son of Adam,
the son of God.

In Genesis 1, Elohim (Father) and Ruach (Mother/Spirit) say, "Let US make Adam in OUR own image."

Paul then gives us the other missing information about the Son of God made by the invisible / hidden God (Elohim).

Colossians 1

15 The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. 16 For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him. 17 He is before all things, and in him all things hold together.

The version you write cannot violate this passage. ALL things are IN and THROUGH the Son of God. Rulers, Thrones and Powers such as Satan (conscience / accuser) and Yahweh (Adversary / Law / Lord) are all aspects of the Son of God. Adam holds all things, just as the image of creation is that of God's image. Images above and below hold all things. Man is Adam, or the individuation of the universe repeated by a pattern. You rule 50 trillion cells with your mind. Your mind has rulers in the same template as Adam's image. Yahweh is the Ego (Adversary) and Satan is the Conscience (Accuser).

Nothing can be called Evil other than one aspect--that of will. God's will is to give and receive. The thief takes. Overcoming the adversary / accuser in the mind is overcoming the need for law. Faith, Hope and Love are the pathways to this process.

I like many of your points. Theology is a sticky subject. We all have one held in pride. Humility is the ability to look at the subject apart from ego / conscience. As you examine scripture, know how the image works. What I will say next will help you as you write your book.

When you look into the Word, you are looking into a mirror. What you see as Evil in the Bible is truly what you see in yourself in reflection. The Word is the knowledge of BOTH good and evil. We are tasked with overcoming the evil. In the Word itself, there is a great deal of evil to overcome. I have tried to outline what this is by the links below. Yahweh/Satan must BOTH be overcome. Until a person divides the word correctly, we call good evil and evil good. In truth, none is evil. All characters are aspects of the Father/Mother (Elohim) raising a Son (Adam). By this, the Son raises us as a Lord learning to lead and overcome ego/conscience. By this, I am a Father with a wife learning to do the same. By this, my sons will repeat the process until resurrection. This IS the template of the temple.

The image above and below is the same. ALL things are the Son in the image of a Father and Mother. Their struggles are the same as ours. Judging the word/rulers/Satan/Yahweh are all judgments of self. Why? We are all part of that universal self. We are an individuation being raised by our mind as a guardian until we release self back to God. He then gives it back, just as Issac was given back to Abraham. God cannot take. He can only give. In the middle, he raises us up to self-realization. See the Upanishads of the Hindus or you will never understand the Bible's story in total. God's made the promise of the Rainbow. Removing judgment of others allows you the ability to glean from their field of knowledge. Pride keeps you from this task. God's made and blessed ALL nations (colors of the rainbow).

I challenge you to fight ego/conscience and simply listen to the message 500 years before knowledge of Jesus on the cross. What did they know? What does this color of the Rainbow promise tell you?

The ancients were commended for their faith (Hebrews 11). Within the first few paragraphs of this text, the ancient law of love overcoming hate is outlined. The path to righteousness is shown. Thoughts (mind) is at the center of existence INSIDE an image created for our refinement. Look at a picture and know what you are seeing in self. Overcoming the self is THE story of self-realization and know what it means to judge others. Self is all that can be judged. ALL things ARE the Son of God in an image. You ARE the Son of God. So am I. We are one blood with many veins; one loaf with many slices. Try not to be burnt toast. It's the path shown by this video.

Share the Way.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EtaP6DHawTQ

 

[striger]

Too much to read here but if arminianism and calvinism were weighted on a scale of errors, arminianism will hit the bottom very rapidly as the heaviest in errors. Arminianism will break all scales to the point of being dead weight.

Arminianism is as useful as paperweight

 

[AlephBet]

Too much to read here but if arminianism and calvinism were weighted on a scale of errors, arminianism will hit the bottom very rapidly as the heaviest in errors. Arminianism will break all scales to the point of being dead weight.

Arminianism is as useful as paperweight

Between the will of man and the will of God, which is stronger? Can anything separate us from God?

If you say Man Yes, then you deny scriptures. If you say God / No, you answer correctly.

This is true because of one simple fact. God made Christ the judge. If he judges his enemies, who does he judge? Himself. God has outsmarted all the judges. He sits back and loves us instead. When we get it, we have it. Once you know, you cannot unknow.

Colossians 1

15 The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. 16 For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him. 17 He is before all things, and in him all things hold together.

Face your Enemy HERE in this this thread if you dare.

 

[striger]

Between the will of man and the will of God, which is stronger? Can anything separate us from God?

If you say Man Yes, then you deny scriptures. If you say God / No, you answer correctly.

This is true because of one simple fact. God made Christ the judge. If he judges his enemies, who does he judge? Himself. God has outsmarted all the judges. He sits back and loves us instead. When we get it, we have it. Once you know, you cannot unknow.

Colossians 1

15 The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. 16 For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him. 17 He is before all things, and in him all things hold together.

I say God will but man's free will don't exist at all so the word "stronger" don't apply. It more like God's will is as it is, being the only will there is.

Don't need to face my enemy without you briefing whom I'm facing.

 

[Rick Otto]

Part 2.

The body of a dead sinner is of greater import to the Calvinist in this temporal view of theology centered in the fallen flesh of mankind in sin than the crucified, buried, resurrected, ascended, and returning body of the Lord Jesus Christ.

“Time stops!” in their minds and then is the bodily return of Jesus Christ. Like Jesus showed up late or something! Like, the Last Day has already happened!! Game called!! Jesus can do nothing!! “The limit of time has passed!” they believe. This is why their mindset and theological system is, of course, man-centered and time-based rather than an eternal whole counsel plan centered in Jesus Christ our Lord alone.

There’s no power in the body and blood of Jesus on the Last Day in resurrection power in their minds. Rather than an eternal purpose and plan in Jesus Christ, the entire Calvinist system limits the Word of God to the flesh of man. According to the Calvinist system, everything started in Adam in flesh on earth in time and is all about mankind in his flesh in time.

Those who die in their sins have died. That’s it. Game over. The devil has a “checkmate”. Jesus didn’t destroy the devil on the cross, and there is nothing that can be done for those who have died in their sins. Well, that’s not what the Bible says. However, anyone with a focus on man in time on earth in flesh making “his pulse” the center of their doctrine… and who don’t instead look to Jesus on the cross… the atonement and His resurrection… well ever and always miss the remaining revelation of the eternal whole counsel plan of God revealed in the Holy Bible..

Hebrews 9:26 for then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself. 27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment: 28 so Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

To the fleshly minded, “it is appointed unto men once to die”. Case closed. Game over. The devil has a “checkmate”. It’s as if they cannot see that Jesus Christ has all power over death itself having died in the place of all mankind and risen from the dead. They can only see Hebrews 9:27a… never noticing that for this cause Jesus Christ died on our behalves taking away the sin of the whole world. Man-centered theologians build their whole theology on taking the pulse of a dead sinner saying, “No pulse! There’s our theology! Based on the dead flesh of a sinner!”. They pronounce their human judgment as if the flesh of a dead sinner and his evil works are all truth of sound doctrine… and the foundation of their theological system. And, unfortunately, it is the foundation of their theological system and why they are so limited in their vision and comprehension of sound doctrine.

God’s entire Biblical theological system, and Kingdom in Heaven, is entirely by grace and is based solely on Jesus Christ alone and manifested in His body and blood in the atonement as well as His soon coming return. Jesus Christ in His the body and blood took all the sins of the world upon Himself, died incorruptible in His body (His body did not see decay), rose again, ascended, is returning, will destroy the entire first creation, and make all things new.

What Jesus Christ accomplished in His body on the cross manifests fully in power of extent only in full manifestation thereof at His return. To look to the dead corpse of a sinner who died in his sins as the measure of the power and extent of the atonement is a horrifically man-centered, fleshly, worldly, and temporal theology.

These just do not believe the Bible when it declares that Jesus Christ destroyed the devil on the cross in His body; and at the manifestation of the Son of God at His full bodily return… will destroy the devil then with the brightness of His coming.

Why do they disbelieve what the Bible says? Because the limit of the Calvinist system of theology in it’s 5 Points is man-centered, worldly, and temporal rather than Christ-centered, Heavenly, and eternal.

Calvinists may not believe that their system is temporal and man-centered, but it is. In fact, we are all temporal and man-centered to varying degree. We’re fallen and our view is limited. But God is Holy and He not limited.

The Calvinist view is so temporal and man-centered… so limits God in His eternal Spirit… so focused on flesh and sin… that the Calvinist imagines that God Himself is as limited to time and flesh and man in the cross and in His body and blood as God made a man. The Calvinist looks to time and the flesh of man rather than what God Himself as God made a man did in eternal power on the cross and declares, “The atonement is limited!”

If the Life of God in Christ and the eternal Spirit of God is limited, the atonement is limited. We don’t look to the flesh of man in time on earth in sin and determine the reach and extent and power of the atonement of God made a man on the cross. Any such view is, of course, temporal and carnal centered in man in flesh.

This view makes time itself, and the flesh of man, the master of the Sovereign Creator who is Himself Eternity. Can time limit Eternity? Can the flesh of man limit the eternal Spirit of God? Can the devil inhibit God with such power that God is placed in a cage “of His own making” by God having created evil?

Do these people really imagine that there is a limit on God who is Eternity and the Sovereign Creator of all that we see? That God will be held in a cage and limited by that which He Himself has created?

Do they believe that God Himself was so short-sighted that He created evil and darkness, generating time, and now His eternal power as God is limited to what is produced in the flesh of man within the bounds of his human time?

Is man according to the flesh, is the devil, and is time now the master of the Lord God Almighty in the minds of those who declare the atonement limited?
Is it possible for the Creator Himself to create something of greater power than Himself by which He could be limited by consent or consequence?

Can the Life of God Himself be limited by the flesh, this world, the devil, and the time of the ages of this world?

There is no honor given to God when God in any way is declared limited either by persons lying to declare His consent to same or a consequence of His foolishness in creating something of greater power than His power as Creator. God would be foolish to create something of greater power than His own so that once it is created, now has inherent power to eternally limit the manifestation of His Life and eternal Spirit.

If anything can be created that can be given consent to be of greater power than God Himself… or in creation becomes of greater power than God Himself… then God is not all powerful in practice. If God is not all powerful in practice, He has altered His State of Being so that He no longer has the inherent power of God to be all powerful.

That’s like saying that God had 100% power over all that He created, then decided to give away a percent of His power. He gave 1% of His power, unrestricted and unrestrained by His own Godhead, to a creation over which He had no further rulership power and authority, no control, at that 1% level.

Well then if so, God, having given such consent, now finds Himself at only a 99% level of power. God is no longer 100% powerful, all powerful, by the foolishness of His own consent. He has ceased from an attribute of His power… and His Godhead has been reduced by 1%. Moreover, that individual at the 1% level in relation to God has power over God Himself to do as he wills unrestricted and unrestrained in any manner by God. I believe that was the purpose and intent of the devil in his rebellion. The devil preaches that he was successful. The scripture declares he was not.

No One who has only 99% Godhead can declare Himself God over those who have that 1% power above His own.

To declare that God is God but is at “less than” 100% power… and is limited… is to deny the reality of what being God comprises: 100% power as God and Creator over all that He has created.

To declare the atonement limited is to deny the power of God and declare that God is “less than” fully 100% God in rulership power and authority over all that He has created.

If God limited Himself in the atonement… He is a limited God who is not fully Sovereign over all that He has created. The doctrines of Calvinism declare that God is 100% Sovereign. Calvinists are proven inconsistent in their beliefs and conviction when they declare the “Limited God of the Limited Atonement”. Calvinists are declaring that the Endless Life of God is limited by the fallen flesh of man; and that the eternal Spirit of God is limited by a timeframe they imagine; and that Jesus Christ as God on the cross was much too limited by the devil himself to destroy the devil in His body on the cross.

Limited Atonement declares that God Himself is not Sovereign over the devil but, rather, is limited by the devil. No matter how Calvinists deny what they have stated… “Limited Atonement” inherently declares a limit upon God imposed by the flesh of man, the devil, and time.

No such limit can be imposed upon God by the minds of mere mortal men.

No such limit exists.

If God had no power to destroy out of existence the evil He created, then God would be a fool for creating evil in the first place. God eternally limited Himself by evil in it’s creation, for God would have limited Himself eternally in His manifest omnipresence of sanctification by His Spirit in direct rule over all creation.

If God had no power or plan to destroy out of existence the evil He created, then God would have imprisoned Himself in His creation by creating something contrary to Himself that He could not destroy; and that would eternally limit the manifestation of His glory in His Holiness by the sanctification of His Spirit in all creation. If so, then God would be a fool for creating evil in the first place.

There is no wise God who would limit Himself eternally in any way. God would create evil with the full plan to fully destroy it out of existence. Thus, He would eternally rule in the full manifestation of His glory in His Holiness sanctifying all His creation in His Spirit for His glory throughout all eternity.

Minds that are blinded by the god of this world (as we all are to varying degree through fall) only imagine the power of sin to exist eternally… where no such power exists. This book will set forth the doctrine of the full destruction of the devil on the cross in the body of Jesus Christ to the glory of God the Father.

There is no darkness that exists eternally and any such statement darkness exists eternally having the power of eternal life is oxymoronic.

Jesus Christ offered His body and blood on the cross as the sacrifice for our sins by the eternal Spirit to God the Father.

The Calvinist view has compressed God Himself who is Eternity and the eternal Spirit into a salvation limited by the flesh of man, this world, the devil, and time. The Calvinist view has compressed God Himself who is the Life into a salvation limited by the flesh of man, this world, the devil and time. The Life, the blood, the Spirit of God Himself is limited in power and in the atonement in their view.

They’ve built a house that the wind blows down. The Calvinist theological framework is not founded in all points on the only sure foundation of the Lord Jesus Christ alone. Yet, this error in foundational doctrine in the Calvinist system can only be revealed by Time and Eternity being revealed through scripture.

I had to stop and chuckle when you said "man centered."
Scanning thru the rest of it, I see thought deeply mired in casual ambiguity of terms. You are not discussing the theological framework of Calvinism. You are focusing only on its soteriology via the 5 points from the synod of Dordt.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synod_of_Dort
Keep wrestling with it though, I admire your commitment.

 

[Laura Lee]

As you examine the life of Adam, know who he is.

Luke 3

the son of Kenan, 38 the son of Enosh,
the son of Seth, the son of Adam,
the son of God.

In Genesis 1, Elohim (Father) and Ruach (Mother/Spirit) say, "Let US make Adam in OUR own image."

Genesis 1:26 is God speaking in council with the angels. Elohim with plural personal pronouns is God and the angels. "In our image" is "in our spirits"... "in our ghosts". It's God declaring that mankind will be the incarnate race of angels made male and female and Himself Messiah.

The reprobate are the fallen angels in spirit made human who Jesus in John 8 declares came from hell and go to hell as the children of the devil (in spirit - incarnate devils).

The elect are the elect angels in spirit made human who are the foreknown sheep of God.

All doctrine must be consistent with the doctrines of salvation in that Jesus Christ alone is God... and the Mystery Religion doctrines that speak of a "mother" are not Christianity.

Any religion that reduces Jesus Christ as "a man like the rest" and mankind as "gods"... or "christs"... is antichrist.

So, not sure what you mean... but these are the last days. It is the time of greatest revelation for the church as we approach then enter tribulation... as well as the great falling away.

So, Christology and who Jesus is is the core... and all of the basic doctrines of salvation through faith in Jesus Christ alone who alone is God and Christ as the Savior of the world. Jesus is Creator. All other humans are created. That simple. No creation is the "equal" of God who is the Creator.

But, the great falling away will declare men to be gods and Jesus Christ to be the equal of them... as just a man like them.

That's the dividing line.

My doctrine is simple declaration that man is incarnation in spirit (which is obvious - and only spiritual blinding can hide it)... and the purpose of this Genesis creation was the cross for the destruction of the devil - the spirit of sin. God and the angels made human is the only way to redeem the angels who cannot be redeemed as angels and can only be redeemed as human beings through the cross of Jesus Christ.

Mankind is a temporary race created for redemption through Jesus Christ alone... and the end result is that this creation is recreated as the Heaven and earth above... repopulated with the original angels in full restoration.

It ends just as it began. God created temporal evil with the plan of the restitution of all things before He allowed evil.

No angel is sealed in a body that cannot sin... until all have been concluded under sin that God may have mercy upon all... and show His Love in dying for us on the cross to reconcile us.

Pretty simple... and entirely consistent with the "human in time" gospel of the cross of Jesus Christ who alone is God made a man.

Not sure what you are saying... but it sounds Mystery Religion with the "mother" statement.

 

[Laura Lee]

I had to stop and chuckle when you said "man centered."
Scanning thru the rest of it, I see thought deeply mired in casual ambiguity of terms. You are not discussing the theological framework of Calvinism. You are focusing only on its soteriology via the 5 points from the synod of Dordt.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synod_of_Dort
Keep wrestling with it though, I admire your commitment.

Hi... Thanks...

Limited Atonement... man-centered doctrine that says a reprobate dead in sins determines the power of the blood of Jesus, extent, and the power of the Endless Life in Jesus.

Calvinism declares that a dead reprobate limited the Atonement.

Man-centered.

Rejects all scripture and the larger eternal whole counsel plan... resting the atonement on the foundation of a dead reprobate... rather than Jesus Christ alone.

That's as simple as I can tell you... this doctrine is in foundational error.

Never mind what one sees in a reprobate. Go to the Only Sure Foundation: Jesus Christ alone.

That was Unlimited Atonement on that cross.

Therefore, those dead reprobates are getting resurrected on the Last Day... and are coming through that fire saved.

The Atonement reaches them in extent... and it is human error to say, "Nope! God cannot do it! He's limited by the carcass of a dead reprobate in time! Our 'eternal whole counsel plan' rests on the flesh of a dead reprobate in time."

My friend, that's not an eternal whole counsel plan... and it fails the test of resting on Jesus Christ alone.

I wrestled. I am Reformed.... God is Sovereign... but the 5 Points of Calvinism are in error... on every count... by degree. The CENTRAL foundational error... is Limited Atonement.

No, God is not Limited... and He did not fail to destroy the devil and all his evil works on the cross. There is no limit to extent. Let's all take our eyes off of a dead reprobate carcass... and get them back on our Risen Savior as the Only Sure Foundation.

God bless!

 

[Rick Otto]

Elohim with plural personal pronouns is God and the angels.

I believe it rather to mean the Trinity, since angels are created beings, and could therefore offer no counsel due to their relatively limited perspective.

 

[Rick Otto]

Limited Atonement... man-centered doctrine that says a reprobate dead in sins determines the power of the blood of Jesus, extent, and the power of the Endless Life in Jesus.

Calvinism declares that a dead reprobate limited the Atonement.

Man-centered.

God centered, in that it aligns with His word whereby predominate council, He chooses (elects) individuals for salvation. This is reflected in the yearly atonement of Israel's High Priest, who offered sacrifice only for Israel, not the whole world.

Eph11] Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, to the saints which are at Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus:
[2] Grace be to you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ.
[3] Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:
[4] According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
[5] Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will [6]To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.

He adopted "us", not everyone.

 

[Laura Lee]

I believe it rather to mean the Trinity, since angels are created beings, and could therefore offer no counsel due to their relatively limited perspective.

Hi... the traditional Jewish understanding is that God was speaking to the council of angels. God does speak to the council of angels throughout scripture.

We the body of Christ are called the "ekklesia". That means "governmental council". The angels are the same.

When a council meets in a Monarchy... they do not gain democratic rule. But, just as Jesus is Head and we are His body... that is how God functions with God and angels. God speaks to the council of angels as one.

If you study it out... God spoke plural to the council of angels... not inviting them to create with Him... but rather to be the creation of man. Then, when God creates... word usage goes singular again.

God alone creates. And He speaks with angels in council. Numerous examples in scripture.

Without exercising human judgment... when elohim is used with personal pronouns that are plural... God is speaking with angels.

My interpretation is the unbiased biblically proper interpretation. To alter the interpretation... is to fail to follow the script of scripture in word usage and council speaking throughout scripture.

One has to "throw in a bias" to not go with the regular usage rules in scripture. Meaning, it's human bias functioning to not go with the most obvious meaning through the record of scripture by usage... absolutely first... and only making a change if "it doesn't fit whole counsel".

That the race of mankind is incarnate in spirit, not just God made Jesus Christ the man, but all human beings are angels incarnate likewise (one angel made male and female) is seen in systematic theology throughout once the level is unearthed and aligned... first seen.

Fits the whole of scripture... is the eternal whole counsel plan revealed.

That's where I stand.

God bless you!!

 

[Laura Lee]

Hebrew Streams: The Genesis Plurals
"The Genesis Plurals
by Paul Sumner
"Bring forward your strong arguments,” says the King of Jacob.
"Let them bring forth and declare to us what is going to take place...
That we may consider them...
That we may know that you are gods...
That we may anxiously look about us and fear."
(Isaiah 41:21-23)
Three times in the book of Genesis (in its Primeval History, chaps. 1—11), God speaks in the first person plural.
Let us make man in our image. (Gen 1:26)
Behold, the man has become like one of us. (Gen 3:22)
Come, let us go down and there confuse their language. (Gen 11:7)
To whom is God speaking? The plural Hebrew verbs "make" [na'aseh], "go down" [nerdah], and "confuse" [novlah], and the implied plural pronoun "us" [mimmennu] are unambiguous. God is speaking to or about someone else.
Note the study on the plural noun "God" [Elohim].
Historically, most Jewish commentators have said the Creator is here speaking to the angels of the heavenly assembly, his divine court."

http://www.hebrew-streams.org/works/hebrew/council.html
The Heavenly Council
in the Hebrew Bible and New Testament
The Hebrew Bible is a book of concrete images. Its writers speak of God in terms of everyday “creation reality,” not philosophical abstractions.
I believe symbolical imagery conveys theology. And the imagery of the Heavenly Council conveys a great deal of important theology about God and about the Messiah.

The concept that God is surrounded by a council (Heb. edah, sod) or host (tseva) of divine servants runs throughout the Hebrew Bible, from Genesis to Daniel. And its imagery spans all of time, from the primeval moments of creation to the enthronement of the Son of David as king over “all the peoples, nations, and languages.”

Let us make Adam in our image, according to our likeness. (Genesis 1:26)
I saw YHVH sitting on his throne, and all the host of heaven standing by him on his right and on his left. (1 Kings 22:19)

Who among the sons of the divine beings is like YHVH,
A God greatly feared in the council of the holy ones,
And awesome above all those who are around him? (Psalm 89:6-7)

The Ancient of Days took his seat ...
Thousands upon thousands were attending him
And myriads upon myriads were standing before him. (Daniel 7:9-10)

This imagery also pervades the New Testament. It lies behind statements such as:

When [Yeshua] had made purification of sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high. (Heb 1:3)
I charge you in the presence of God and of Messiah Yeshua and of the holy angels. (1 Tim 5:21)

We see the imagery in the vision of New Jerusalem in Hebrews 12 and the throne visions in Acts 7 and throughout Revelation.

Orthodox Judaism and orthodox Christianity eventually abandoned this biblical imagery because it undermined the theological formulas by which each chose to define themselves. As a result, today most people within those traditions do not see this meaning-laden biblical imagery in context.

The imagery is further obscured by trivialized, romantic, even pagan depictions of angels in medieval Christian art and pop culture.

 

[Laura Lee]

When God announced that man had become "like one of us" this is not God speaking to Himself. Adam did not become like God (as Satan said he would) by sinning.

Adam was first created in entire sanctification, in that respect, "like God" being without sin.

When Adam fell, he did not become "more like the Trinity".

Rather, Adam became as the entire council of angels as one. Adam became capable of fathering not only the elect holy angels in spirit (through God breathing into Adam) but capable of fathering the devils incarnate through sin in his flesh.

God was announcing that His plan was moving forward that all angels (not just holy but fallen) would be fathered according to the flesh by Adam.

The holy angels were good; the fallen angels were evil.

Knowledge of Good and Evil... means that Adam would be able to father both holy (in his creation) and fallen (in his fall) angels through his sin of disobedience.

This was God's plan all along... and God was simply announcing the power of incarnation of the entire council of angels (holy and fallen) in his fall.

"like us"... that's the revelation. By no means can "us" in Genesis 3:22 refer to the Trinity in Holiness becoming "like them" through sin.

Adam lost his sonship to God when he became a sinner. He did not become more like the Trinity in so doing.

God was speaking forth that Adam could now father the entire company of angels... holy and fallen... having eaten from the Tree of Knowledge (spiritual union) of Good and Evil... that's the revelation of the scripture and whole counsel plan of God revealed.

Rightly dividing the Word of Truth must reflect God speaking to the "us" and "us" being the same group Genesis 1:26 and Genesis 3:22. By no means did Adam become more like God by sinning than he was in an entirely sanctified state in original creation as the son of God. Therefore, the "us" in both Genesis 1:26 and Genesis 3:22 is God speaking in council with all angels including both good and evil angels.

There I stand.

God bless!

 

[AlephBet]

All of what you are presupposing is summarized in an Egyptian fragment known as the Kore Kosmou. To deny that Moses knew this would be unfounded. Moses knew the Hermetic knowledge from Egypt. You are assuming a great deal that is not mentioned in scripture, but if you are looking for the correct reason we are Angels (from one soul) involved into the human form, this document is your answer. And yes, there is a mother. In every religion, including our own, the Mother is know as the Mater / Matrix of creation. She IS the Waters of the feminine.

In all cases, we follow after the template of God's design. It is fabricated on the platform of his own image perfectly. Things reproduce after their own kind and there is NO reason to doubt God introducing TWO characters in Genesis (Elohim / Ruach Elohim). In Egypt, she was ISIS. All keys from each of the seven kingdoms are necessary to solve the central mystery of the Bible. I have summarized it in my signature.

Refine your view by this:

Read it here: Kore Kosmou.

There is a reason Moses had to be trained as an Egyptian Priest / King. Moses is an archetype of Christ (1 Corinthians 10). He is the ROCK / Capstone / Cornerstone of the ONLY temple to not crumble in our world (Pyramids). It IS the monument to the Lord (Isaiah 19). All temples crumble. The Pyramids will stand as long as the Earth Stands.

Why Egypt (Refinery Symbolism / Deut. 4:19)? See my temples thread linked in the signature.

Joseph laid the foundation in translation as an Egyptian Priest himself. If you doubt Joseph was a Priest, you doubt the rule concerning marriage to a Priests daughter. He was required to be a priest. Moses was schooled in the mysteries, both lesser and greater. The Torah is a mirror to this Mystery, as is the Gnostic John. They all knew THIS mystery in the link above.

The book of Enoch / Jude 1 / Genesis 6 all expound. God left these scrolls for us in this day and age for a reason.

Daniel 12

3 Those who are wise will shine like the brightness of the heavens, and those who lead many to righteousness, like the stars for ever and ever. 4 But you, Daniel, roll up and seal the words of the scroll until the time of the end. Many will go here and there to increase knowledge.”

ALL things were made IN and THROUGH the Son. None of it is to be judged, but seen for its value. All things. All things are the Son of God. Read Colossians 1:15.

Genesis 1:26 is God speaking in council with the angels. Elohim with plural personal pronouns is God and the angels. "In our image" is "in our spirits"... "in our ghosts". It's God declaring that mankind will be the incarnate race of angels made male and female and Himself Messiah.

The reprobate are the fallen angels in spirit made human who Jesus in John 8 declares came from hell and go to hell as the children of the devil (in spirit - incarnate devils).

The elect are the elect angels in spirit made human who are the foreknown sheep of God.

All doctrine must be consistent with the doctrines of salvation in that Jesus Christ alone is God... and the Mystery Religion doctrines that speak of a "mother" are not Christianity.

Any religion that reduces Jesus Christ as "a man like the rest" and mankind as "gods"... or "christs"... is antichrist.

So, not sure what you mean... but these are the last days. It is the time of greatest revelation for the church as we approach then enter tribulation... as well as the great falling away.

So, Christology and who Jesus is is the core... and all of the basic doctrines of salvation through faith in Jesus Christ alone who alone is God and Christ as the Savior of the world. Jesus is Creator. All other humans are created. That simple. No creation is the "equal" of God who is the Creator.

But, the great falling away will declare men to be gods and Jesus Christ to be the equal of them... as just a man like them.

That's the dividing line.

My doctrine is simple declaration that man is incarnation in spirit (which is obvious - and only spiritual blinding can hide it)... and the purpose of this Genesis creation was the cross for the destruction of the devil - the spirit of sin. God and the angels made human is the only way to redeem the angels who cannot be redeemed as angels and can only be redeemed as human beings through the cross of Jesus Christ.

Mankind is a temporary race created for redemption through Jesus Christ alone... and the end result is that this creation is recreated as the Heaven and earth above... repopulated with the original angels in full restoration.

It ends just as it began. God created temporal evil with the plan of the restitution of all things before He allowed evil.

No angel is sealed in a body that cannot sin... until all have been concluded under sin that God may have mercy upon all... and show His Love in dying for us on the cross to reconcile us.

Pretty simple... and entirely consistent with the "human in time" gospel of the cross of Jesus Christ who alone is God made a man.

Not sure what you are saying... but it sounds Mystery Religion with the "mother" statement.

 

[Laura Lee]

All of what you are presupposing is summarized in an Egyptian fragment known as the Kore Kosmou. To deny that Moses knew this would be unfounded. Moses knew the Hermetic knowledge from Egypt. You are assuming a great deal that is not mentioned in scripture, but if you are looking for the correct reason we are Angels (from one soul) involved into the human form, this document is your answer. And yes, there is a mother. In every religion, including our own, the Mother is know as the Mater / Matrix of creation. She IS the Waters of the feminine.

In all cases, we follow after the template of God's design. It is fabricated on the platform of his own image perfectly. Things reproduce after their own kind and there is NO reason to doubt God introducing TWO characters in Genesis (Elohim / Ruach Elohim). In Egypt, she was ISIS. All keys from each of the seven kingdoms are necessary to solve the central mystery of the Bible. I have summarized it in my signature.

Refine your view by this:

Read it here: Kore Kosmou.

There is a reason Moses had to be trained as an Egyptian Priest / King. Moses is an archetype of Christ (1 Corinthians 10). He is the ROCK / Capstone / Cornerstone of the ONLY temple to not crumble in our world (Pyramids). It IS the monument to the Lord (Isaiah 19). All temples crumble. The Pyramids will stand as long as the Earth Stands.

Why Egypt (Refinery Symbolism / Deut. 4:19)? See my temples thread linked in the signature.

Joseph laid the foundation in translation as an Egyptian Priest himself. If you doubt Joseph was a Priest, you doubt the rule concerning marriage to a Priests daughter. He was required to be a priest. Moses was schooled in the mysteries, both lesser and greater. The Torah is a mirror to this Mystery, as is the Gnostic John. They all knew THIS mystery in the link above.

The book of Enoch / Jude 1 / Genesis 6 all expound. God left these scrolls for us in this day and age for a reason.

Daniel 12

3 Those who are wise will shine like the brightness of the heavens, and those who lead many to righteousness, like the stars for ever and ever. 4 But you, Daniel, roll up and seal the words of the scroll until the time of the end. Many will go here and there to increase knowledge.”

ALL things were made IN and THROUGH the Son. None of it is to be judged, but seen for its value. All things. All things are the Son of God. Read Colossians 1:15.

This is not "Unorthodox Christianity" you are discussing. It is apostasy and the Mystery Religions of antichrist. Please stop commenting to me on this thread. You are speaking of an entirely different religion than biblical Christianity... and of Pyramids and other Mystery Religion evil that is not Christianity.

 

[AlephBet]

This is not "Unorthodox Christianity" you are discussing. It is apostasy and the Mystery Religions of antichrist. Please stop commenting to me on this thread. You are speaking of an entirely different religion than biblical Christianity... and of Pyramids and other Mystery Religion evil that is not Christianity.

While I appreciate your judgment of this, Christ came to show the true Mystery. You are referring to the worthless mystery mentioned by Enoch.

16.3 "You were in Heaven but its secrets had not yet been revealed to you;
and a worthless mystery you knew. This you made known to women, in
the hardness of your hearts. And through this mystery the women and the
men cause evil to increase on the Earth."

Christ was the fulfillment of the mystery God held (Ephesians 3).

Am I your enemy?

 

[striger]

Hi... Thanks...

Limited Atonement... man-centered doctrine that says a reprobate dead in sins determines the power of the blood of Jesus, extent, and the power of the Endless Life in Jesus.

Calvinism declares that a dead reprobate limited the Atonement.

Man-centered.

Rejects all scripture and the larger eternal whole counsel plan... resting the atonement on the foundation of a dead reprobate... rather than Jesus Christ alone.

That's as simple as I can tell you... this doctrine is in foundational error.

Never mind what one sees in a reprobate. Go to the Only Sure Foundation: Jesus Christ alone.

That was Unlimited Atonement on that cross.

Therefore, those dead reprobates are getting resurrected on the Last Day... and are coming through that fire saved.

The Atonement reaches them in extent... and it is human error to say, "Nope! God cannot do it! He's limited by the carcass of a dead reprobate in time! Our 'eternal whole counsel plan' rests on the flesh of a dead reprobate in time."

My friend, that's not an eternal whole counsel plan... and it fails the test of resting on Jesus Christ alone.

I wrestled. I am Reformed.... God is Sovereign... but the 5 Points of Calvinism are in error... on every count... by degree. The CENTRAL foundational error... is Limited Atonement.

No, God is not Limited... and He did not fail to destroy the devil and all his evil works on the cross. There is no limit to extent. Let's all take our eyes off of a dead reprobate carcass... and get them back on our Risen Savior as the Only Sure Foundation.

God bless!

You understanding of calvinism is fishy. Calvinism isn't what most of what you said here. Too many watered down translation of what calvinism is. I don't bother helping those that are too far gone mistranslating calvinism.

 

[Laura Lee]

You understanding of calvinism is fishy. Calvinism isn't what most of what you said here. Too many watered down translation of what calvinism is. I don't bother helping those that are too far gone mistranslating calvinism.

Calvinism states that the Atonement is Limited not on the basis of what Jesus did on the cross... that is sufficient in sacrifice to save all mankind.

Calvinism does not center in the Atonement itself in comprehension of same.

Rather, it moves to looking at Extent... says the Atonement is limited in end result... therefore is limited.

The order of logic of the system turns away from examination of the Atonement itself... and measures the Atonement itself by declaring "limited extent in reach".

That's man-centered in human error. The error is in failing to look to Jesus alone and see the power of the Atonement as unlimited... then realizing that necessarily all mankind must be saved in the end.

Rather than being true to scripture and the tests of scripture... in weakness of faith... Limited Atonement declares that the ends justifies the means... the end determines the means... and delcares the Atonement itself Limited because it cannot see that the reprobate can be saved.

In fact, the reprobate are devils incarnate in spirit made men who cannot be saved in human lifetime... and must be saved through fire.

The atonement is unlimited and election is not unconditional. The elect are God's people foreknown... the reprobate can only be saved by fire.

Calvinism cannot see these things and is wearing temporal blinders.

But, I understand that they cannot see that as of yet. In God's Sovereign grace and time... He grants grace to see by the Spirit the illumination of the Word.

This takes looking to the spirit level rather than the flesh of man in time on earth as "Adam" in fixation.

Calvinism examines only the flesh of man declaring all mankind the same. The scripture declares the elect are foreknown (in spirit level of course - not according to flesh because God knows no man according to his flesh but in spirit and in truth).

Upon examination, the spirit man of the elect in salvation is fully equal to the spirit of a holy angel in essence and being of spirit in Christ. And the spirit man of a reprobate in total depravity of the spirit of sin is fully equal in essence and being in spirit of a devil.

That's the level that must be examined to understand election and atonement, etc.

Anyway, thank you and God bless!

 

[striger]

Calvinism states that the Atonement is Limited not on the basis of what Jesus did on the cross... that is sufficient in sacrifice to save all mankind.

Calvinism does not center in the Atonement itself in comprehension of same.

Rather, it moves to looking at Extent... says the Atonement is limited in end result... therefore is limited.

The order of logic of the system turns away from examination of the Atonement itself... and measures the Atonement itself by declaring "limited extent in reach".

That's man-centered in human error. The error is in failing to look to Jesus alone and see the power of the Atonement as unlimited... then realizing that necessarily all mankind must be saved in the end.

Rather than being true to scripture and the tests of scripture... in weakness of faith... Limited Atonement declares that the ends justifies the means... the end determines the means... and delcares the Atonement itself Limited because it cannot see that the reprobate can be saved.

In fact, the reprobate are devils incarnate in spirit made men who cannot be saved in human lifetime... and must be saved through fire.

The atonement is unlimited and election is not unconditional. The elect are God's people foreknown... the reprobate can only be saved by fire.

Calvinism cannot see these things and is wearing temporal blinders.

But, I understand that they cannot see that as of yet. In God's Sovereign grace and time... He grants grace to see by the Spirit the illumination of the Word.

This takes looking to the spirit level rather than the flesh of man in time on earth as "Adam" in fixation.

Anyway, thank you and God bless!

Fishy interpretation.

God did the choosing on some, not all, way long long long before reforms even discussed any possiblty of what man is supposed to believe.