Ernie Knoll not a prophet?

Idol Breaker · Mar 10, 2009

Whether or not the GC accepts any new prophets is not germain to the issue after all the Jewish leaders in the time of Jesus rejected him as did many of their ancestors (sic) did with the prophets preceeding Christ. What makes us think that our leadership would be any different. "Pride cometh before a fall". We each must be responsible for our own salvation, we cannot depend on others to tell us what is and isn't the word of God. We must, at all times, be observant and open to what God is doing, but at the same time we must be wary of what Satan is doing. That is way God has given us a manual to refer to whenever we have questions or doubts, we need to use it.

BobRyan · Mar 10, 2009

Idol Breaker said:
Whether or not the GC accepts any new prophets is not germain to the issue after all the Jewish leaders in the time of Jesus rejected him as did many of their ancestors (sic) did with the prophets preceeding Christ. What makes us think that our leadership would be any different. "Pride cometh before a fall".

Still you have to admit that it would be fun to pretend that if the Nation Church religious leaders of Israel in Christ's day rejected someone as the Christ then "it must be so". All good soldiers that followed them would want to relax and just assume that rule so they would not have to individually dig out the truth.

It would have been nice if that had been true for John the baptizer -- just kick back and reject whoever the Sabbath School teacher and the Priest say to reject.

It would have been nice if that was true for Paul -- all the gentiles and Jews listening could just look to their own religious leadership to see if Christianity were the right religion and Paul the right evangelist.

It would have been nice in Ellen White's day if all of her fellow Millerites could truly just follow whatever Miller said about Ellen White or whatever their own church denomination leaders said etc.

How wonderful if that rule had EVER worked in all of time!

Just think about it - what if all the Christian churches had their own "infallible magesterium" as the RCC claims. What if we all just slipped back into the "my magesterium is infallible I need not be aroused out of sleep" mode that they have adopted?

But how much "better" to trust the Word of God -- to "study to show YOURSELF approved unto God" to embrace the point that "we must EACH ONE stand before the judgment seat of Christ". Thankfully we have the 5 year sessions where the FB doctrinal statement is reviewed not by a few administrators but by the entire church through their chosen reprentatives.

We each must be responsible for our own salvation, we cannot depend on others to tell us what is and isn't the word of God. We must, at all times, be observant and open to what God is doing, but at the same time we must be wary of what Satan is doing. That is way God has given us a manual to refer to whenever we have questions or doubts, we need to use it.

Ahhh - there's the rub. And "some people" in every age got that message and so "followed the Carpenter" no matter what their Priests and Sabbath-school teachers told them to do.

How blessed we are for it!

in Christ,

Bob

BobRyan · Mar 15, 2009

Idol Breaker said:
Whether or not the GC accepts any new prophets is not germain to the issue after all the Jewish leaders in the time of Jesus rejected him as did many of their ancestors (sic) did with the prophets preceeding Christ. What makes us think that our leadership would be any different. "Pride cometh before a fall".

Kind of reminds me of John 7:48 so often quoted by Ellen White when contemporaries in her day tried to dismiss her ministry using that same argument "have any of the priests and rulers believed?"

in Christ,

Bob

woobadooba · Mar 15, 2009

What the GC does or doesn't accept is not as important as what does or doesn't agree with the Bible.

djconklin · Mar 16, 2009

Excellant point.

BobRyan · Apr 23, 2009

The April 11 meeting in Atlanta with Ernie and Becky Knoll was very interesting. A number of people from my church attended - (including our pastor at one point in the afternoon session).

It was very clear from the section devoted to first hand accounts of lives changed due to the impact of the messages being give to Ernie - that the ministry is calling people to repentance and reformation.

That was a great blessing to witness.

in Christ,

Bob

Man-ofGod · Apr 26, 2009

I accept Ernie's message so far.

Is it as important in believing that Ernie Knoll is a prophet as it is in believing in his message of repentance?

Ernie Knoll's dreams are pointing to repentance, just like all the prophets of the past. Moses warned Egypt, Noah warned of the flood, Lot warned Sodom, etc... Its easy to look in hind sight and say "that he/she was a prophet." But is it really important to label someone as a prophet in real time? Or is it more important to determine if his message is true according to scripture.

Acts 17:11
These were more fair-minded than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness, and searched the Scriptures daily to find out whether these things were so.

They searched the word daily to see of what he said was so. Did they do this more to validate the messenger or the message?

Could the people of Sodom been saved if they just turned from there sins, weather they thought lot was a prophet or not?

People who love their sins will reject righteous teaching. So far Ernie's teachings is righteous and I will put them into practice with the utmost urgency.

He has a prophecy concerning the evil coming in 2012. If it does not come to pass, there is no truth in him. He will be just another Wolf in sheeps clothing. This is where people who believe in the messenger more then the message can get hurt. For people in which the seed has not taken root yet, this could be enough to shake their faith.

Can someone accept his message but be cautious?

I think so. I think its foolishness to believe the messenger with out validating the message. So therefore, verifying ones claims through scripture to me is essential and never ends as long as the prophet lives.

BobRyan · Apr 27, 2009

I believe his statement on 2012 is that those who are preaching that date as the end -- as the time of the 2nd coming etc - are in error.

I agree with your view of testing the message and then accepting what it says as long as it passes the test of scripture. I too find that his message is in harmony not only with the Bible but also with the added reference point markers that we have in Ellen White's ministry for a prophet.

The message is more important than applying the label "prophet" -- (though I think that technically it does apply.)

Ernie basically said the same thing when asked about that term - in the Atlanta April 11 seminar.

in Christ,

Bob

teresaq · Jul 20, 2009

This is on 4hispeople.org

07/17/2009 - NOTICE FROM ERNIE: We know this will come as a shock, but we have come to believe that the dreams are not of God. Even though there was truth in them, there was also error.

We believe that Candace may have been an evil angel.

I also received personal dreams that were obviously not from God. We will be putting a notice on our website soon. Our future meetings have been cancelled. ... Thank you.

Satan knows his time is short and is working to deceive even the very elect. We are so sorry and pray that the Lord will guide us into all truth.

Love & prayers
Ernie & Becky

Xenon · Jul 20, 2009

teresaq said:
This is on 4hispeople.org

07/17/2009 - NOTICE FROM ERNIE: We know this will come as a shock, but we have come to believe that the dreams are not of God. Even though there was truth in them, there was also error.

We believe that Candace may have been an evil angel.

I also received personal dreams that were obviously not from God. We will be putting a notice on our website soon. Our future meetings have been cancelled. ... Thank you.

Satan knows his time is short and is working to deceive even the very elect. We are so sorry and pray that the Lord will guide us into all truth.

Love & prayers
Ernie & Becky

Praise God! I had nothing against him, but after looking at the dreams and reading various people's comments, they didn't seem to be from God. It's good to know for sure that he and his wife are true followers of Christ. I'm sure that God will bless his ministry from here on out!

Stryder06 · Jul 21, 2009

teresaq said:
This is on 4hispeople.org

07/17/2009 - NOTICE FROM ERNIE: We know this will come as a shock, but we have come to believe that the dreams are not of God. Even though there was truth in them, there was also error.

We believe that Candace may have been an evil angel.

I also received personal dreams that were obviously not from God. We will be putting a notice on our website soon. Our future meetings have been cancelled. ... Thank you.

Satan knows his time is short and is working to deceive even the very elect. We are so sorry and pray that the Lord will guide us into all truth.

Love & prayers
Ernie & Becky

Ernie's dreams seemed ok to me, but there was always something about them...I couldn't put my finger on it but I wasn't able to commit 100% to say his dreams were from God, but at the same time I felt that they might have been. I pray God keeps him in these last days.

Man-ofGod · Jul 22, 2009

It seems it gets worse based on announcement today at 4hispeople.com.

The 4 His People Ministry Board learned of some very disturbing information the week of July 15. This information has led us
to believe that though the dreams appear to be of a supernatural source, we now believe that this source was of Satan.

Along with the meetings being cancelled and no future meetings authorized by the board, please know that Ernie and
Becky Knoll are suspended from any activity related to the 4 His People Ministry.

Please cease contributing funds to this ministry.

For those of you who read the testimony and/or received emails from someone going by the name of “Candace”, we were able to
determine through tracking email IP information, that Ernie Knoll is “Candace”. When pressed, he admitted to this on July 21
at 2:43pm in a phone call to two ministry board members. We have also determined that the “Great Commission Counsel”
is also Ernie Knoll.

We urge everyone who has a “dream book” to throw it away, as we now understand that there are mind control elements in it.

We sincerely apologize to all who have read and believed these messages. We pray that those whose lives have been affected,
including those of us on this ministry team and our families, will find closure. Thankfully, we have a loving Savior in Jesus Christ
who is willing to forgive all who come to Him with sincere repentance.

While we have concerns about some of the arguments and statements made by those who openly opposed the dreams, we apologize
to you specifically. We may at some time in the future ask that you consider the unscriptural positions taken, but it is clearly
not appropriate at this time.

Please know that all of us involved in this ministry, only ever wanted to serve in the cause of Christ, to win souls for the kingdom.
It is our prayer that those who have returned to Jesus, as a result of these messages, will not cast Him aside. While we cannot trust
in man’s opinions, we can trust Jesus. Always look to Jesus for light and strength. May He find us ready, when He returns.

So Ernie Knoll set out to deliberately deceive, and then compounded the issue by trying to say he uncovered the deception Satan placed on him by himself. Definitely pray for this man.

With that said, this whole event is a blessing in many ways. For one, it tells us that the end is soon.

Mark 13:22
For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect

This also shows us that we may not know the test of a prophet like we thought we did or at the very least, we do not know how to apply it properly. But out of this unfortunate event, arises an opportunity to apply the test of a prophet to Ernie Knoll knowing what the outcome of the test should be. Therefore, I would like to suggest brothers and sisters, that we learn how to apply the test of a prophet effectively, so that we are not deceived. Amen? I propose we open a thread for Adventist, for this purpose only, maybe in the study section? For a lot of us, this is the first time we witnessed something like this, but it certainly will not be the last. Especially knowing that God will be sending real prophets eventually. What is everyone’s thought on this?

BobRyan · Jul 23, 2009

Sounds like a good idea.

Jon0388g · Jul 23, 2009

Man-ofGod said:
This also shows us that we may not know the test of a prophet like we thought we did or at the very least, we do not know how to apply it properly. But out of this unfortunate event, arises an opportunity to apply the test of a prophet to Ernie Knoll knowing what the outcome of the test should be. Therefore, I would like to suggest brothers and sisters, that we learn how to apply the test of a prophet effectively, so that we are not deceived. Amen? I propose we open a thread for Adventist, for this purpose only, maybe in the study section? For a lot of us, this is the first time we witnessed something like this, but it certainly will not be the last. Especially knowing that God will be sending real prophets eventually. What is everyones thought on this?

I agree.

This whole episode has proven one thing: that we as Adventists are truly unprepared for the things soon to burst upon us. How can we doubt we are Laodicea?

"And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God; I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot. So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth. Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked: I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see. As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent." Revelation 3:14-19

Jon

OntheDL · Jul 23, 2009

I don't know if everyone read the latest update from 4hispeple site. It states that through IP tracing of email exchanges they determined and Ernie admitted that he is 'Candace' and the 'great commission'. It also says there are mind controls in the messages.

I think we need to pray and study the messages more and understand where and how we fall if indeed the claims are true.

BobRyan · Jul 23, 2009

It is sad that no one was able to master a Biblically solid argument against Ernie's dreams - and in fact still today we don't have one from the dreams themselves.

What we have is Ernie's own statement that he made up Candace and of course "now" we have a bible case against the dreams. But I would hate to say that the test of THIS kind of prophet is "wait 4 years until they admit that they started lying to you about 18 months ago".

We need to have a better model than that! And we need to have something better than the "I don't FEEL GOOD about this" model of the naysayers against Ernie that also "just so happened" to undercut both Ellen White and the bible.

When I was first pointed to 4HisPeople by a David Gates sermon I found on the web last October - one of the first things I did after reading all the dreams (and by all - I mean all) - was to go to the best detractor sites to see if any analysis had been done that would hold up to the Bible and Ellen White -- stating that Ernie's dreams were not true. There was nadda - zippo, zilch -- the big ZERO. (Kind of like the early Millerites wanting to find out if there was any flaw at all with the 2300 day timeline and getting nothing of substance from the Millerite detractors). Having to wait until AFTER the 2300 year timeline ended with "no second coming" was a horrible way to "detect" the flaw!!

So it seems we have a similar failure with this specific form of prophecy, only we have no hind-sight postmortem today showing us what we could have known before that would have helped.

What a mess!

in Christ,

Bob

Stryder06 · Jul 23, 2009

I think one thing we all should be mindful of is the fact that the bible says that in the last days God would cut the time short lest even the very elect be deceived. I think that all of us in some way were hoping that the dreams were real because it left the impression that the coming of our Lord was sooner than we hoped.

If any of you are like me than you prayed in earnest for God to reveal the truth as to whether or not this man was real or not. I believe this was an answer to that prayer.

When i first read these dreams I got worked up into a bit of a fanatical state. I thought that we only had a few months left before Christ would return and I felt myself unprepared. I looked at all of the things I hadn't done and was terrified that I would be found unworthy.

One day I was talking to my wife about this and I am convinced that the Spirit moved upon her to say what she did to me because never before had she spoken the way she did at that time to me. It was powerful and comforting and it helped move me into a more stable position. She reminded me of how we aren't saved by our works, of how God knows our hearts and judges us accordingly.

I think that this is a great situation that we can learn from. Satan's hand will only wax stronger in the days to come, but as long as we keep our hands in the Masters hand, than just as He did with this situation, He'll lead us into truth and keep us from error.

We should earnestly keep Ernie and his wife in our prayers.

Xenon · Jul 23, 2009

BobRyan said:
When I was first pointed to 4HisPeople by a David Gates sermon I found on the web last October - one of the first things I did after reading all the dreams (and by all - I mean all) - was to go to the best detractor sites to see if any analysis had been done that would hold up to the Bible and Ellen White -- stating that Ernie's dreams were not true. There was nadda - zippo, zilch -- the big ZERO. (Kind of like the early Millerites wanting to find out if there was any flaw at all with the 2300 day timeline and getting nothing of substance from the Millerite detractors). Having to wait until AFTER the 2300 year timeline ended with "no second coming" was a horrible way to "detect" the flaw!!

So it seems we have a similar failure with this specific form of prophecy, only we have no hind-sight postmortem today showing us what we could have known before that would have helped.

Actually, Eugene Prewitt's writeup was both biblical and compared it to Ellen White's counsel. The conclusion to it makes it pretty clear.

This won't be long.
First, Ernie has gone far too far to be evaluated as a confused dreamer -- someone that has common dreams and mistakes them for divine pictures. His two-way conversations and the reactionary nature of the dreams brand him as one of three: Either a true prophet, or one in communion with evil spirits, or one hired to confuse the workers with outright lies.

Second, big issues in the dreams eliminate the "true prophet" option. His relation to impressions of the "Spirit", his false tests of "Do you know my name?" and of "What of 1Jo 4:1-3?", his contradiction of the Testimonies on tithe, his mixing of the sacred and the common, and more, his mixing of Biblical metaphors, these and other major issues leave me no choice but to consider him false -- whether in cahoots with demons or merely men.

Third, his most important paragraph in any dream, perhaps, was the statement that many like him in other places, and speaking other languages, are having the same experience. May God, our Father in heaven, prepare us for the tidal wave of sensational fanatical outpouring. It is time to search our hearts, almost too late if we have been neglecting this work.

Fourth, future claimants to inspiration may not have the "big issues" apparent in anything they say. We must not be hurried into accepting any message "heaven." We have time to study, time to watch. Little things may be our only clue to wait longer still. We can not be too careful how we hear, how we receive.

Fifth, we should not test spirits by talking to them, nor by listening to them talk. Think it through. Satan was a liar from a very early date.

Sixth, see the second point. I am through with Messages from God for His People. The devil has no right to distract me from my work by making up new and confusing dreams. I grant that he is able. But not that he has the right. I will not be further distracted.

This, of course, was written over a year ago. We have a winner!

BobRyan · Jul 24, 2009

For what it is worth - I took a long and detailed look at Eugene Prewitt's material a number of times since last November. I found his writeup to be the best and most Biblically based of all the popular ones out there. I have seen a number of false prophets come into the SDA church from the Pentecostal movement over the years and they were easy to spot.

And today I am completely on the side of those who say that Ernie is a false prophet.

And I still can't find a single argument in Prewitt's writeup that holds water when you stop and take a close look at it.

Hence the truck-size whole that those who were opposed to 4HisPeople - left unnattended while creating more problems of their own.

in Christ,

Bob

Man-ofGod · Jul 24, 2009

BobRyan said:
Sounds like a good idea.

Is there any mods here that can open a thread on the study forum concerning this issue?

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