Ernie Knoll not a prophet?

[DarylFawcett]

Bob,

As your link isn't working, I am reposting that link here:

http://www.4hispeople.com/GCC_Findings.htm

 

[BobRyan]

So what does that mean as far as what we are allowed to do and what not to do in regards to testing the spirit?

I think the rule is -- always test according to the bible test of a prophet.BTW - interesting that today's SS on the Bible tests of a prophet - never actually applied them
in Christ,
Bob

 

[Man-ofGod]

Pastor Doug Batchelor indirectly references Ernie Knolls dream in the test of a prophet Bible Study. Its at the 14 minute mark and beyond.



http://www.amazingfacts.org/Televis...QT/1-2009/7/Testing-the-Prophets/Default.aspx

 

[BobRyan]

Thanks - that was an interesting sound bite.

However I think the point he makes about testing all claims by the Bible is the best takeway.

Who knows whether his view of 4HisPeople will change "yet again" over the next year. In the end "we each must stand before the judgment seat of God" 2Cor 5:10 and we will not have someone else answering for us - as some kind of "priest".

We are each one to receive either an approval or dissapproval of the 4HisPeople ministry from the Holy Spirit and it should be based on Bible tests -- tests that are consistently applied to Ellen White and the Bible authors. Tests that are proven.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

Question for the thread -

Matt 12:30-31 -- does this apply to evaluating 4HisPeople ministry pages such as -

http://www.4hispeople.com/dreams.html

Matt 12

30 "He who is not with Me is against Me; and he who does not gather with Me scatters.

31 "Therefore I say to you, any sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven people, but blasphemy against the Spirit shall not be forgiven.

32"Whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man, it shall be forgiven him; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it shall not be forgiven him, either in this age or in the age to come.

Given the fact that in Matt 12 almost all of church leadership had rejected Christ's ministry -- and given the fact that He was generally viewed to be a carpenter from Nazareth working miracles (so definitely supernatural -- but the question debated was -- is it for good or evil?) and teaching about the Kingdom of God - is the statement Christ makes in Matt 12 -- too strong?

in Christ,

Bob

 

[Xenon]

Paul writes something along the same lines as the first verse that you posted.

Galatians 1:6-7 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.

He makes it pretty clear that there is only one truth. If there's a version that is leading in a slightly different direction, then it's entirely wrong. This, however, is in the context of the early church, when the slight variations were supposed to be saying the same thing. Yet he's still as serious as when they were completely opposed to Jesus. Later on, Paul does mention two different gospels (Galatians 2:7), but in the sense that they were meant for two different groups of people to lead them to the same point: Jesus. Not to a slightly different version of Jesus, but to the same. Given how serious even slight error is, I'd have to say that Jesus said it as strong as he wanted to

 

[djconklin]

If we gave a full 10% on our gross we would lose our home. If we gave 10% on our Net we would have to use our credit cards to pay for food. We are not doing well right now (financially).

Step out in faith; God will provide. Who knows? Maybe He wants you to move!

When we became SDA my dad wondered how we could afford to tithe. But, the Bible says do it, so we did. He was amazed that 90% that was left worked like it was 110%.

 

[woobadooba]

[/size][/font]

Step out in faith; God will provide. Who knows? Maybe He wants you to move!

When we became SDA my dad wondered how we could afford to tithe. But, the Bible says do it, so we did. He was amazed that 90% that was left worked like it was 110%.

So are you suggesting that we are robbing God?

Are you suggesting that we are faithless?

Be very careful how you apply scripture!

 

[BobRyan]

I understand how Xenon's post is related to this subject -- but I am not following the last two posts. What do they have to do with this?

in Christ,

Bob

 

[Pythons]

Was Ellen "tested" in the same way it's suggested that Ernie Knoll be tested?

 

[BobRyan]

I will give you this --- there are a lot of similarities between them.

Interesting that Christ also had his share of difficulty with the established leadership of his day claiming in Matt 12 that He was doing His work through the power of satan.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[trubeautie]

I am now hearing about Ernie Knoll. The name was only somewhat familiar to me. Interesting...

I think the rule is -- always test according to the bible test of a prophet.BTW - interesting that today's SS on the Bible tests of a prophet - never actually applied them
in Christ,
Bob

Didn't our SS Lessons 5-6 cover testing the prophets? Are you saying that it really was not covered? If so, in what way?

 

[BobRyan]

Lesson six "Tests of a Prophet" -- starts with Fundamental Belief #18 which mentions Ellen White.

On Sunday's lesson the gift is defined has one who "receives inspired dreams and visions"

Then we get these tests
1. Must match up with scripture - Monday
2. Predictions must come true -- Tuesday
3. Must confess Jesus as having come in the flesh - literally - Wednesday
4. The fruit of the Spirit must be seen in the life - Thursday

However in all of that - though Ellen White was mentioned on each page - -they only "applied the test" to her in the case of Thursday's lesson - where they give an example of a newspaper column commenting on her life after she died.

They could have given examples of her passing the test in all the cases - but they did not value that goal as highly as they "could have" given the nature of the topic for the week.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[trubeautie]

Lesson six "Tests of a Prophet" -- starts with Fundamental Belief #18 which mentions Ellen White.

On Sunday's lesson the gift is defined has one who "receives inspired dreams and visions"

Then we get these tests
1. Must match up with scripture - Monday
2. Predictions must come true -- Tuesday
3. Must confess Jesus as having come in the flesh - literally - Wednesday
4. The fruit of the Spirit must be seen in the life - Thursday

However in all of that - though Ellen White was mentioned on each page - -they only "applied the test" to her in the case of Thursday's lesson - where they give an example of a newspaper column commenting on her life after she died.

They could have given examples of her passing the test in all the cases - but they did not value that goal as highly as they "could have" given the nature of the topic for the week.

in Christ,

Bob

Oh, ok. I see your point. Maybe the lessons would have ended up being longer than desired had they gone into more depth. On Wednesday, they did also apply the test of confessing Jesus Christ as well though. Other days, besides Wednesday and Thursday, were quite brief. Overall, it seems like they wanted us to understand the specific tests so that we could apply them ourselves.

 

[BobRyan]

In the OP to this thread we have an example of a web site using a "make it up as you go" test for a prophet instead of applying the actual bible test of a prophet to see if something is right or wrong.

Lesson 6 we have the actual subject of "testing prophets" as "the topic" and on every page the tests are being related to Ellen White without actually going through the due diligence of showing "a small example" of doing that part of the test that the day's lesson is about.

I think they could have done it easily in that day's lesson (show a tiny example of the test being applied) - and given the example we have here in the OP of failure to really master that skill -- it makes me wonder if maybe we are just being a bit lazy sometimes.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[trubeautie]

In the OP to this thread we have an example of a web site using a "make it up as you go" test for a prophet instead of applying the actual bible test of a prophet to see if something is right or wrong.

Lesson 6 we have the actual subject of "testing prophets" as "the topic" and on every page the tests are being related to Ellen White without actually going through the due diligence of showing "a small example" of doing that part of the test that the day's lesson is about.

I think they could have done it easily in that day's lesson (show a tiny example of the test being applied) - and given the example we have here in the OP of failure to really master that skill -- it makes me wonder if maybe we are just being a bit lazy sometimes.

in Christ,

Bob

Understandable. Maybe if there was a bit more detail, it would be more helpful in learning to apply the tests. Maybe it is laziness or maybe our human imperfections.

 

[BobRyan]

Was Ellen "tested" in the same way it's suggested that Ernie Knoll be tested?

Actually it is more correct to say that much of the "test Ernie Knoll" traffic from places like the OP quotes -- are using a "make it up as you go" approach to testing Ernie instead of actually engaging in solid Bible tests.

some of the "make it up stuff" would not only disqualify Ellen White -- it would also disqualify some Bible writers.

I prefer the Bible.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[Pythons]

Actually it is more correct to say that much of the "test Ernie Knoll" traffic from places like the OP quotes -- are using a "make it up as you go" approach to testing Ernie instead of actually engaging in solid Bible tests.

some of the "make it up stuff" would not only disqualify Ellen White -- it would also disqualify some Bible writers.

I prefer the Bible.

in Christ,

Bob

I'll say it another way, can Ellen pass the same tests applied to Ernie?

 

[BobRyan]

The same ones I apply to Ernie - yes -- but there are a lot of people out there simply "making up tests as they go" when it comes to Ernie - and I keep trying to tell them that they need to stick to the Bible tests instead of simply making stuff up. After all - there exists a nice size group of non-SDAs that would love to simply "make rules up" when it comes to Ellen White and so this is no time to start adopting such methods for evaluating Ernie as if that won't come back to bite us.

in Christ

 

[ricker]

The same ones I apply to Ernie - yes -- but there are a lot of people out there simply "making up tests as they go" when it comes to Ernie - and I keep trying to tell them that they need to stick to the Bible tests instead of simply making stuff up. After all - there exists a nice size group of non-SDAs that would love to simply "make rules up" when it comes to Ellen White and so this is no time to start adopting such methods for evaluating Ernie as if that won't come back to bite us.

in Christ

What verses in the Bible makes you think prophets will rise up in the last days before Jesus's second coming and try to make major corrections in the Christian churches practices and beliefs as Mrs. White did?
Thanks, Ricker