Equality Act & Religious Freedom

[rjs330]

I’m going to guess he wouldn’t because I can’t believe he would be stupid enough to say he will have no part in celebrating a same sex wedding but has no problem being a part in celebrating a same sex wedding anniversary. To do so would mean that he thinks the wedding is the most important part of the marriage, and yes, society has segments that are that materialistic, I don’t think he is but the possibility exists.

My question still is unanswered on why the cake baker gets to discriminate against a same-sex couple but the restaurant owner and doctor don’t. If it was just a cake and this was the only segment of society would try to get away with this discrimination, I wouldn’t even bother having this fight. But I k ow this isn’t where this would end and it would quickly get into terrible territory.

Can an apartment building owner refuse to rent to a same-sex couple? Can a furniture salesmen refuse to sell furniture to a same-sex couple? Can a bank refuse to finance a home loan for a same-sex couple? How about the home sellers, can they refuse to sell? Could a home owners association put into their covenant that no same-sex couples are allowed? Can a car dealership refuse to buy or sell cars with a same-sex couple?Could a doctor refuse to treat them? Can a hospital refuse admittance? Can an attorney refuse to write up a will for a same-sex couple? Can a cemetery refuse to allow members of a same-sex couple be buried on the same burial plot?

In large cities there will be people willing to offer services if others are not. But in small towns, you may only have a couple or even one choice in these matters. Allowing people to straight up discriminate against same-sex couples can make towns “No-Go Zones” for the LGBTQ community.

I answered your question. A number of times. None of us have said it's okay to do what you are asking questions about.

All this is, is about one artistic item that violates the religious conscience of the artist. That's it. It's not about refusing all services to all people for all reasons. Please get this right.

 

[GreatLakes4Ever]

I answered your question. A number of times. None of us have said it's okay to do what you are asking questions about.

All this is, is about one artistic item that violates the religious conscience of the artist. That's it. It's not about refusing all services to all people for all reasons. Please get this right.

Why is the cake baker different from the rest of my list? What about the religious conscience of the other people I listed?

 

[SilverBear]

None of that proves it's the same thing.

but your claim was "I'm sorry but the blacks who suffered under civil right violation don't agree with you"

 

[SilverBear]

He didn't refuse to serve them. He wouldn't use his artistic talents to create a single particular cake.

because they were members of a minority. So yeah, he refused.

They shouldn't have asked him to knowing his religious views.

maybe he should put out a "whites only" sign

It was quite frankly a terrible thing to do.

Yes discrimination is a terrible and hateful thing

Go down the block to someone who would happily do it. Don't demand a person violate their deeply held personal religious beliefs. Don't demand their religious rights become subservient to your rights.

just like the Broadway Theater of Knoxville Tennessee

 

[SilverBear]

Again, why should the religious rights of the baker be subservient to the rights of the other person.

why should he have to serve black people?

 

[rjs330]

because they were members of a minority. So yeah, he refused.

maybe he should put out a "whites only" sign

Yes discrimination is a terrible and hateful thing



just like the Broadway Theater of Knoxville Tennessee

You can keep dragging out that tired old mantra, it doesn't make it any more true. You can come talk to us when the baker slaps up a sign that says No Gays Allowed. Until then your argument has no substance. It's nothing more than misinformation. Trying to fit a square peg into a round hole.

 

[rjs330]

why should he have to serve black people?

He does serve black people. He also serves gay people.

 

[SilverBear]

You can keep dragging out that tired old mantra, it doesn't make it any more true. You can come talk to us when the baker slaps up a sign that says No Gays Allowed. Until then your argument has no substance. It's nothing more than misinformation. Trying to fit a square peg into a round hole.

and you keep trying to sell the lie that Charlie Craig and David Mullins targeted Phillips

 

[SilverBear]

He does serve black people. He also serves gay people.

if that were true than he would have made Charlie Craig and David Mullins their cake

 

[KCfromNC]

Again, why should the religious rights of the baker be subservient to the rights of the other person.

This isn't about religious rights. The baker is free to believe whatever he wants and go to whichever church on whatever day he chooses.

There is no established religious "right" to ignore the law simply because one believes really, really hard.

 

[KCfromNC]

The victim is the baker in this case.

Yeah, it must be really draining to discriminate against minorities in addition to baking cakes for all the customers he doesn't kick out of their store for being the wrong orientation. Where does he find the time?

 

[KCfromNC]

In this case I would disagree with the doctors choice. The baby is the patient and the requested treatment had nothing to do with sexual orientation.

I'm a specifist. I don't believe the baker should have a sign that says "No gays allowed". But I do support not having to create an artistic cake to celebrate a sinful act.

Hmm, having a party is a sinful act. Raising a child in a heathen abomination of a sham marriage - to summarize some of the propaganda against gay parents - is fine. And yet the customer is to blame for not correctly guessing which sin(s) believers care about this week? Seems very arbitrary.

Do we need any better example of why "but I believe something, therefore I get to ignore whatever laws I like" is no way to run a society?

 

[KCfromNC]

Why is the cake baker different from the rest of my list? What about the religious conscience of the other people I listed?

Answering this will expose problems with the implication that religious rights are absolute and everyone else has to make concessions to work around them.

 

[rjs330]

This isn't about religious rights. The baker is free to believe whatever he wants and go to whichever church on whatever day he chooses.

There is no established religious "right" to ignore the law simply because one believes really, really hard.

If course it is. When you use the law to restrict a person's free excersize of his religion you have just violated his constitutional rights.

 

[rjs330]

Hmm, having a party is a sinful act. Raising a child in a heathen abomination of a sham marriage - to summarize some of the propaganda against gay parents - is fine. And yet the customer is to blame for not correctly guessing which sin(s) believers care about this week? Seems very arbitrary.

Do we need any better example of why "but I believe something, therefore I get to ignore whatever laws I like" is no way to run a society?

The customer is not required to know what the person believes his religion exercise is. They should just leave them alone once they find out.

 

[rjs330]

Answering this will expose problems with the implication that religious rights are absolute and everyone else has to make concessions to work around them.

See post 158

 

[GreatLakes4Ever]

See post 158

I read post #158 and I have some questions.

Can an apartment building owner refuse to rent to a same-sex couple? Can a furniture salesmen refuse to sell furniture to a same-sex couple? Can a travel agency refuse to book a vacation for a same-sex couple? Can a bank refuse to finance a home loan for a same-sex couple? How about the home sellers, can they refuse to sell? Could a home owners association put into their covenant that no same-sex couples are allowed? Can a car dealership refuse to buy or sell cars with a same-sex couple? Could an adoption agency refuse to adopt to them? Could a doctor refuse to treat them? Can a hospital refuse admittance? Can a hotel refuse to rent a room to a same-sex couple? Can a photography studio refuse to give them a sitting? Can a Can an attorney refuse to write up a will for a same-sex couple? Can a cemetery refuse to allow members of a same-sex couple be buried on the same burial plot?

In large cities there will be people willing to offer services if others are not. But in small towns, you may only have a couple or even one choice in these matters. Allowing people to straight up discriminate against same-sex couples can make towns “No-Go Zones” for the LGBTQ community.

 

[KCfromNC]

If course it is. When you use the law to restrict a person's free excersize of his religion you have just violated his constitutional rights.

That's nice, but has nothing to do with a baker being asked to bake yet another cake.

 

[KCfromNC]

The customer is not required to know what the person believes his religion exercise is.

It is if we are supposed to accept accusations that the customer is targeting that person because of that person's religious beliefs.

 

[Aldebaran]

if that were true than he would have made Charlie Craig and David Mullins their cake

What does that have to do with not serving gay people?