Eph 1:4 exegeted

[Hammster]

Confessions occurs before repentance. The people confessed their sins to John, then John baptized them unto repentance. If you only confess your sins, then you agree that you have not repented! Your confessions reminds you of your sin. Why not repent, so you can forget your sins? You will no longer have to confess sin that you have repented from.

How do you confess something that you're not repentive of?

 

[mercy1061]

How do you confess something that you're not repentive of?

Easily, I know plenty people who confess sin, then return to the sin they have just confessed, "dog returning to his vomit". "Freegrace2" is arguing that repentance is not necessary for forgiveness or salvation. I guess he continues to commit the sin he has just confessed and receive forgiveness because he thinks "once saved always saved".

 

[Hammster]

Easily, I know plenty people who confess sin, then return to the sin they have just confessed, "dog returning to his vomit". "Freegrace2" is arguing that repentance is not necessary for forgiveness or salvation. I guess he continues to commit the sin he has just confessed and receive forgiveness because he thinks "once saved always saved".

You are advocating confession before repentance, though.

 

[mercy1061]

You are advocating confession before repentance, though.

The ancient jews confessed their sins, then John baptized them unto repentance, I do not understand why this is so difficult to understand? After you confess your sin, then baptism unto repentance. After you bear the fruit worthy of repentance, you are forgiven.

Sin has to be acknowledged or confessed, before repentance can occur. A man must confess that he must keep Sabbath through confession, then he repents from profaning Sabbath. No confession = no repentance = no forgiveness.

 

[Hammster]

The ancient jews confessed their sins, then John baptized them unto repentance, I do not understand why this is so difficult to understand? After you confess your sin, then baptism unto repentance. After you bear the fruit worthy of repentance, you are forgiven.

Sin has to be acknowledged or confessed, before repentance can occur. A man must confess that he must keep Sabbath through confession, then he repents from profaning Sabbath. No confession = no repentance = no forgiveness.

Thankfully, I'm not an OT Jew.

 

[mercy1061]

Thankfully, I'm not an OT Jew.

No confession = no repentance = no forgiveness, Yeshua preached repentance in the new testament.

 

[Iconoclast85]

Hentenza;.

Because you stated "Seems Calvinists want this verse to say that God chose who would become a believer, but it sure doesn't say that." If God chose the believer before the foundation of the world (as the verse states) and since the believers were yet to be born when God made the choices (as per your parenthetical statement in your OP), then God most certainly knew who would become a believer.

God chose a multitude of SINNERS to save before the world was.

[He considered all mankind as fallen]

The Father gives them to the Son.

The Son seeks and saves them....

none are lost,,,


according to the power of God;

9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

 

[extraordinary]

God's plan is NOT faith plus works.
If that were so, faith would be immaterial and so would grace.

To those of you who can wrap your mind around this, the FG2 is saying above:
If God's plan is faith plus works,
faith would be immaterial and so would grace.
... which of course is ludicrous!

God's Plan of Salvation = faith + works

If one believes that God must provide the faith, we can amend God's Formula to:
God's Plan of Salvation = grace/faith + works

In God's Formula, obviously both are essential, necessary, required, obligatory, and etc.

Jesus and His brother James are the two most obvious proponents of this!

Please note:
Continuing faith until the end of one's life is necessary to be given eternal life!
And one's continuing faith must be accompanied by one's continuing works!
Because one's good works(deeds) prove one's genuine faith!

Yes, genuine saving faith requires more than most Christians today believe.
Because we are in a Laodicean church period (see Rev 3:14-22).
.

 

[FreeGrace2]

God's Plan of Salvation = faith + works

Paul thoroughly refutes this claim in Rom 4:4,5 and Ephg 2:8,9.

We are saved by faith, NOT by works. And Paul NEVER claimed we are saved by faith plus works. Ever.

 

[extraordinary]

And Paul NEVER claimed we are saved by faith plus works. Ever.

I will not allow you to get away with your nonsense posts!

Multiple times, you have seen these verses ...

• “All Scripture… is profitable for … instruction in righteousness” (2 Timothy 3:16)[FONT=&quot]

• “But you, O man of God, flee these things (sins) and pursue righteousness” (1 Timothy 6:11)

• Makest thou your CHOICE! Wilt thou be ...
“(slaves) of sin leading to (eternal) death, OR
(slaves) of obedience leading to righteousness” (Romans 6:16)
Yes, slaves of sin earn their wages of eternal death (Romans 6:21 and 6:23)

• “... present your members as slaves of righteousness for holiness” (Romans 6:19)

• “Walk as children of light (for the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness, righteousness, and truth),
finding out what is acceptable to the Lord.” (Ephesians 5:8-10)
.
[/FONT]

 

[FreeGrace2]

I will not allow you to get away with your nonsense posts!

That's rather hilarious. As if any poster controls what other posters post. I'll refute your view whenever I come across it.

Multiple times, you have seen these verses ...

• “All Scripture… is profitable for … instruction in righteousness” (2 Timothy 3:16)[FONT=&quot]

• “But you, O man of God, flee these things (sins) and pursue righteousness” (1 Timothy 6:11)

• Makest thou your CHOICE! Wilt thou be ...
“(slaves) of sin leading to (eternal) death, OR
(slaves) of obedience leading to righteousness” (Romans 6:16)
Yes, slaves of sin earn their wages of eternal death (Romans 6:21 and 6:23)

• “... present your members as slaves of righteousness for holiness” (Romans 6:19)

• “Walk as children of light (for the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness, righteousness, and truth),
finding out what is acceptable to the Lord.” (Ephesians 5:8-10)
.
[/FONT]

Sure. And NEVER have I ever seen ANY verse that says that one is saved by faith PLUS works. Because there aren't any.

When works are added, grace leaves. That is what Paul meant in Rom 4:4,5.

All the verses cited here are what believers are supposed to do. But for salvation? Of course not. For rewards. But you're free to believe whatever pleases.

 

[FreeGrace2]

After you confess your sin, then baptism unto repentance.

Does this suggest that one gets baptized after every sin they confess? People would have to be baptised on a regular basis!!

After you bear the fruit worthy of repentance, you are forgiven.

So, seems your view is that forgiveness is based on works, or "bearing fruit worthy of repentance". While John the baptizer certainly encouraged those he baptized to bear fruit worthy of repentance, it wasn't a requirement at all. Ever.

Sin has to be acknowledged or confessed, before repentance can occur. A man must confess that he must keep Sabbath through confession, then he repents from profaning Sabbath. No confession = no repentance = no forgiveness.

I'll try to help out the confusion here.

All sins (past, present, and future) are forgiven on the basis of faith in Christ. Acts 10:43 says so.

For the believer, sin gets our feet "dirty" and our feet need regular cleaning. That was the point Jesus was making with ol' rock head, I mean, Peter, when He washed the disciple's feet, including Judas'. Those who were already saved had been cleansed (had a bath), and only needed their feet to be washed. That's the daily confession of sin that occurs during our lives.

1 Jn 1:9 is for believer only. And not for salvation, but for fellowship, which is the context for the first chapter.

And, finally, confession and repentance aren't the same. We see the difference in the parable of the prodigal son. When he came to his senses, he got up out of the pig sty and returned to the father, which is repentance, or a change of mind including change of direction. When he got to his father, he confessed his sins.

Confession of sin is just what the Greek word means; "to say the same thing", or admitting to God our actions are sinful. Repentance is turning from that sin.

How about another parable to illustrate the difference. One is driving down the freeway and at some point realizes they are driving in the wrong direction. That admission is confession: "I'm going the wrong way".

But, only when he turns the car around and goes in the opposite direction does he repent.

 

[FreeGrace2]

No confession = no repentance = no forgiveness, Yeshua preached repentance in the new testament.

Actually, He preached "believe in Me for eternal life".

 

[extraordinary]

When works are added, grace leaves. That is what Paul meant in Rom 4:4,5.

Throughout Scripture, God tells us, asks us, etc. to choose to co-operate with Him!

And, as I've always been saying, we should NOT consider this as "works"
... because doesn't "works" stand for doing good deeds/works?

Co-operating with God, being obedient to Him, etc. is NOT doing good deeds/works!

Romans 12:1
"I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that you
present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable to God,
which is your reasonable service."
.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Throughout Scripture, God tells us, asks us, etc. to choose to co-operate with Him!

Yes, that's true. But show me any verse that says that one is saved by works.

And, as I've always been saying, we should NOT consider this as "works"
... because doesn't "works" stand for doing good deeds/works?

Show me any verse that says that anyone is saved by faith plus works. I've already shown 2 passages that deny works for salvation.

Co-operating with God, being obedient to Him, etc. is NOT doing good deeds/works!

Nor does it save anyone. Works, obedience, faithfulness; all are for rewards.

Romans 12:1
"I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that you
present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable to God,
which is your reasonable service."
.

Does this verse say or even suggest that this is required for salvation? No.

 

[extraordinary]

Matthew 25:
33 And He will set the sheep on His right hand, but the goats on the left.
34 Then the King will say to those on His right hand,
‘Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
35 for I was hungry and you gave Me food; I was thirsty and you gave Me drink;
I was a stranger and you took Me in;
36 I was naked and you clothed Me; I was sick and you visited Me; I was in prison and you came to Me.’
37 Then the righteous will answer Him, saying,
‘Lord, when did we see You hungry and feed You, or thirsty and give You drink?
38 When did we see You a stranger and take You in, or naked and clothe You?
39 Or when did we see You sick, or in prison, and come to You?’
40 And the King will answer and say to them,
‘Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did it to one of the least of these My brethren, you did it to Me.’
41 Then He will also say to those (the unrighteous) on the left hand,
‘Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:
42 for I was hungry and you gave Me no food; I was thirsty and you gave Me no drink;
43 I was a stranger and you did not take Me in, naked and you did not clothe Me,
sick and in prison and you did not visit Me.’
44 Then they also will answer Him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry
or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to You?’
45 Then He will answer them, saying,
‘Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.’
46 And these (the unrighteous) will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”
.

 

[EmSw]

Yes, that's true. But show me any verse that says that one is saved by works.

John 5:29 - And shall come forth; they that have done good (works), unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil (works), unto the resurrection of damnation.

Jesus mentions two resurrections, of life and of damnation. Both resurrections are based upon works, either good or evil.

Man doesn't have a choice; he will be resurrected to life or damnation, as Jesus Himself says, according to his works.

 

[extraordinary]

.
Emsw,

When the FG2 said: "But show me any verse that says that one is saved by works",
he was not asking for a Scripture verse, but a verse from the Qur'an or some other book.
IMO, he doesn't believe Scripture verses.
.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Matthew 25:
33 And He will set the sheep on His right hand, but the goats on the left.
34 Then the King will say to those on His right hand,
‘Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
35 for I was hungry and you gave Me food; I was thirsty and you gave Me drink;
I was a stranger and you took Me in;
36 I was naked and you clothed Me; I was sick and you visited Me; I was in prison and you came to Me.’
37 Then the righteous will answer Him, saying,
‘Lord, when did we see You hungry and feed You, or thirsty and give You drink?
38 When did we see You a stranger and take You in, or naked and clothe You?
39 Or when did we see You sick, or in prison, and come to You?’
40 And the King will answer and say to them,
‘Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did it to one of the least of these My brethren, you did it to Me.’
41 Then He will also say to those (the unrighteous) on the left hand,
‘Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:
42 for I was hungry and you gave Me no food; I was thirsty and you gave Me no drink;
43 I was a stranger and you did not take Me in, naked and you did not clothe Me,
sick and in prison and you did not visit Me.’
44 Then they also will answer Him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry
or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to You?’
45 Then He will answer them, saying,
‘Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.’
46 And these (the unrighteous) will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”
.

Very nice. What's the point?

A jailer asked Paul what he MUST DO to be saved.

Paul's answer: believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you WILL BE SAVED.

Was Paul wrong?

 

[FreeGrace2]

John 5:29 - And shall come forth; they that have done good (works), unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil (works), unto the resurrection of damnation.

Jesus mentions two resurrections, of life and of damnation. Both resurrections are based upon works, either good or evil.

Man doesn't have a choice; he will be resurrected to life or damnation, as Jesus Himself says, according to his works.

So, to the jailer's question of what he MUST DO to be saved, Paul said this: believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you WILL BE SAVED.

Apparently your view is that Paul's answer was wrong. Got it.