Eph 1:4 exegeted

FreeGrace2

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I will exegete Eph 1:4 from the NASB with parentheses for clarity:

just as He (God) chose (elected) us (believers per 1:19) in Him (speaks to postitional truth of being placed in union with Christ per 1:13) before the foundation of the world (when God's election occurred), that we would be (the purpose of God's election of believers) holy and blameless (how believers are supposed to live, what believers were elected to do as service for Him) before Him.

If my clarifying parentheses are inaccurate, I invite correction that is based on Scripture. Opinions don't matter here. If my exegesis can be refuted from Scripture, please do so.

Like everyone else, I do not want to be wrong.

Thanks.
 

stenerson

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I will exegete Eph 1:4 from the NASB with parentheses for clarity: that we would be (the purpose of God's election of believers) holy and blameless (how believers are supposed to live, what believers were elected to do as service for Him) before Him.


Thanks.

This is not wishful thinking on God's part. All that are redeemed by, and justified by Christ are presented to God as holy and blameless. That's the only reason we (believers) can come boldly before the throne of grace.
 
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FreeGrace2

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This is not wishful thinking on God's part.
My exegesis did not put wishful thinking onto God. Maybe an explanation for your conclusion in that direction.

All that are redeemed by, and justified by Christ are presented to God as holy and blameless. That's the only reason we (believers) can come boldly before the throne of grace.
This isn't the issue of Eph 1:4. The issue is why God elected believers. iow, what FOR. And there are many commands in Scripture to be "holy and blameless", so this verse is about the believer's experiential sanctification.

However, the OP asks if my exegesis can be refuted. iow, were any of the words in parenthesis in error? If so, please explain how/why they are.
 
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stenerson

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My exegesis did not put wishful thinking onto God. Maybe an explanation for your conclusion in that direction.


This isn't the issue of Eph 1:4. The issue is why God elected believers. iow, what FOR. And there are many commands in Scripture to be "holy and blameless", so this verse is about the believer's experiential sanctification.

However, the OP asks if my exegesis can be refuted. iow, were any of the words in parenthesis in error? If so, please explain how/why they are.

Believers are holy and blameless before Him. There's no charge that can stick against those that are in Christ Jesus.
Of course there are many commands to be holy, blameless, perfect even as the Father in Heaven is perfect. That's why the gospel is good news. Believers have the righteousness of God that is apart from the Law. It's theirs in Christ.
 
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FreeGrace2

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Believers are holy and blameless before Him.
POsitionally, yes, of course. They are "in Christ" and have His imputed righteousness. But Eph 1:4 isn't about being chosen to be in Christ, as so many Calvinists seem to believe, from what they all say.

1:4 is about believers being chosen to be holy and blameless. This speaks to experential sanctification, not positional truth.

Consider this:

Colossians 1:22
yet He has now reconciled you in His fleshly body through death, in order to present you before Him holy and blameless and beyond reproach—
Colossians 1:23
if indeed you continue in the faith firmly established and steadfast, and not moved away from the hope of the gospel that you have heard, which was proclaimed in all creation under heaven, and of which I, Paul, was made a minister.

Note the bolded part. The verses are saying that God has reconciled believers (you) in order to (for the purpose of) present you (believers) before Him holy and blameless IF YOU CONTINUE IN THE FAITH. That's real clear. There is a condition noted here, and the wording here is very similar to Eph 1:4 about being holy and blameless before Him.

iow, the ONLY way for believers to be presented before Him holy and blameless is IF they continue in the faith.

There's no charge that can stick against those that are in Christ Jesus.
Yes, from Rom 8. But we're dealing with Eph 1:4, and Rom 8 is a different context altogether, making different points than Eph 1:4.

Of course there are many commands to be holy, blameless, perfect even as the Father in Heaven is perfect. That's why the gospel is good news. Believers have the righteousness of God that is apart from the Law. It's theirs in Christ.
True, but irrelevant to the OP.

In 2 posts, there has been no refutation of what I have exegeted as noted by the parentheses. May I conclude that my exegesis is acceptable to you?
 
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stenerson

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POsitionally, yes, of course. They are "in Christ" and have His imputed righteousness. But Eph 1:4 isn't about being chosen to be in Christ, as so many Calvinists seem to believe, from what they all say.

1:4 is about believers being chosen to be holy and blameless. This speaks to experential sanctification, not positional truth.

Consider this:

Colossians 1:22
yet He has now reconciled you in His fleshly body through death, in order to present you before Him holy and blameless and beyond reproach—
Colossians 1:23
if indeed you continue in the faith firmly established and steadfast, and not moved away from the hope of the gospel that you have heard, which was proclaimed in all creation under heaven, and of which I, Paul, was made a minister.

Yes, we believe in the perseverance of the Saints. They will not lose faith, but will continue believing the gospel good news of Christ's perfect atoning work. If you move away from the gospel of God's free grace, as many have done, they have not been truly reconciled.
Paul is not saying "if you continue being holy and blameles" or "if you progress enough in becoming experientally holier and more blameless."

May I conclude that my exegesis is acceptable to you?

negative, you take a faulty turn at the crucial fork.
 
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FreeGrace2

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Paul is not saying "if you continue being holy and blameles" or "if you progress enough in becoming experientally holier and more blameless."
Then please provide explanation and support from Scripture that backs up your view of what Paul said.

In Col 1:23, he exactly did say "if you continue in the faith" as to being presented holy and blameless.

negative, you take a faulty turn at the crucial fork.
OK, fine. Please explain where the faulty turn occurred and why it is faulty.

I have no idea where you disagree with my exegesis. That's what I'm looking for.
 
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hedrick

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We know that God accepts Christ's people as righteous. We also know that we are new people in Christ, who are called to do righteousness. So both things are part of the Christian faith. The question is which Eph 1:4 represents.

The context is God adopting us and forgiving us. That suggests to me that in this passage the writer sees us as being credited with being blameless through Christ. But we don't necessarily have to choose one. I believe the writer was thinking it as the goal for our lives (not a condition for being Christians, but the goal for Christian life). Calvin understands the passage as a whole as meaning both. "for there is no absurdity in supposing that the same thing may gain two objects. ... Paul tells them plainly [in Rom 8:30] that they have no right to separate holiness of life from the grace of election;" though he sees "holy and blameless" more as actual holiness of life. I'm inclined to agree with his exegesis. The Word commentary on Eph also sees "holy and blameless" as being primarily a reference to the goal of our Christian lives.
 
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stenerson

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Don't get me wrong. It's true that Paul exhorts believers to reckon themselves, or consider themselves according to what they already are in Christ Jesus.
And he also promises us that if we continue in the faith we will be presented blameless and holy before God.
The high flying and exuberant context of Ephesians is that God has predestined us for adoption as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will, 6 to the praise of his glorious grace and according to the purpose of his will.
This isn't law, in other words this isn't God telling us I'm holding these great promises for you if you grow sufficiently in holiness and blamelessness. The only holiness and blamelessness that makes us presentable to God is that of Christ, the holiness and blamelessness that we have in Christ Jesus.
 
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FreeGrace2

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We know that God accepts Christ's people as righteous. We also know that we are new people in Christ, who are called to do righteousness. So both things are part of the Christian faith. The question is which Eph 1:4 represents.

The context is God adopting us and forgiving us.
Forgiveness is mentioned in 1:7, but the entire chapter is about our position in Christ, or what is called positional truth. Again, the question is what has God elected "us" (believers) to be. Remember, it's believers that God elects in 1:4. There is no way to understand the verse as God choosing who will believe.

That suggests to me that in this passage the writer sees us as being credited with being blameless through Christ. But we don't necessarily have to choose one. I believe the writer was thinking it as the goal for our lives (not a condition for being Christians, but the goal for Christian life).
I agree with this. It is the goal for every believer, and what believers have been chosen to be.

One could say that God chose every believer to be "Christ-like".

Calvin understands the passage as a whole as meaning both. "for there is no absurdity in supposing that the same thing may gain two objects. ... Paul tells them plainly [in Rom 8:30] that they have no right to separate holiness of life from the grace of election;" though he sees "holy and blameless" more as actual holiness of life. I'm inclined to agree with his exegesis. The Word commentary on Eph also sees "holy and blameless" as being primarily a reference to the goal of our Christian lives.
Speaking of exegesis, was there anything in mine that missed the mark?
 
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FreeGrace2

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Don't get me wrong. It's true that Paul exhorts believers to reckon themselves, or consider themselves according to what they already are in Christ Jesus.
And he also promises us that if we continue in the faith we will be presented blameless and holy before God.
The high flying and exuberant context of Ephesians is that God has predestined us for adoption as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will, 6 to the praise of his glorious grace and according to the purpose of his will.
This isn't law, in other words this isn't God telling us I'm holding these great promises for you if you grow sufficiently in holiness and blamelessness. The only holiness and blamelessness that makes us presentable to God is that of Christ, the holiness and blamelessness that we have in Christ Jesus.
Yes, I agree. But you had said this:
negative, you take a faulty turn at the crucial fork.
And I asked:
"OK, fine. Please explain where the faulty turn occurred and why it is faulty.

I have no idea where you disagree with my exegesis. That's what I'm looking for."
 
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daviddub

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Paul is writing a letter to Ephesus, the usage of "we" in chapter 2 is not mostly a general we, or as you put it (believers per 1:19), but are those with him, having come so far in Christ, or "who first trusted in Christ" (per v12). For he distinguishes the many early "we's" from the "ye" which are the people to whom he's writing (begining in v13 "in whom ye also trusted..." emphasis on ye also, as distinct from the early we's). Tychicus, who is a beloved brother, and faithful minister in the Lord, may be an example of one of those in the "we," for Paul says Tychicus will make known unto you all things. For, only a minister of God can make known all things 6:21, and only he who has purged himself from these (vessels to dishonor), is sanctified, and meet for the masters use, and prepared unto every good work. Those to whom the early "we's" refer along with Paul, are not those to whom he would need to write things like 4:25-32, among plenty else. Furthermore, to the we, God was already abundant in wisdom, and had already made known to them the mystery v8,9. But for the "ye," these are the very things Paul is praying God would make known v17,18. You will see here that the we's eyes already have these things made known to them. The ye, to whom Paul is writing, needs their eyes enlightened to these things.

So what Paul is doing here is setting the we, whom he is among, as examples to the ye. So that his exhortations have some present example. Paul does this often, in plenty of other places which people read as if they are general we's, not noticing that he distinguishes in other writings as well 'we' from 'ye.' Easy places to see that the 'we' and the 'ye' are not always all Christians, but a distinct group, is quite a bit of Galatians, Corinthians, and other places. Other places can also be found like He 6:9,11; and consider 9:14 The writer's conscience has been purged already, hence "shall the blood of Christ purge your consciences from dead works. Furthermore, 12:4, those to whom he was writing had not yet encountered the blood, striving against sin. So then, read this in light of the whole chapter 12, and his admonishments to them, who had not yet resisted unto blood striving against sin. For when they had, that blood would purge their consciences from dead works, as he said in chapter 9.

I think many, including almost all theologians I've ever heard/read, treat these letters like treatises, when they are letters. They have a sender, and those with him, or with whom he more perfectly identifies. They have receivers, to whom the writer(s) stand as examples, and all who have progressed so far spiritually. They have third parties, which are also referred to. They have statements that apply to all men, some to all believers, some to all the receivers, some to the writer, some to the holy men, some to the unbelievers, etc. Not all statements are just general statements about all professing Christians. What you will find in understanding this, is many of the great things which many consider to be "imputed" to wicked men, and babes, and all so-called believers, are not about them at all, but about the holy men, with whom the writer identifies, whom he normally categorizes or distinguishes from the receivers, as standing examples, and thus beacons to be striven toward.
 
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stenerson

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"OK, fine. Please explain where the faulty turn occurred and why it is faulty.

I have no idea where you disagree with my exegesis. That's what I'm looking for."


that we would be (the purpose of God's election of believers) holy and blameless (how believers are supposed to live, what believers were elected to do as service for Him) before Him.
What believers "were elected to do" ? That doesn't make sense. Yes it's saying that He chose, or elected us, "that" we would be...Seems subtle and insignificant difference but it's not. In other words this holiness and blamelessness would result from His election.
The main purpose being emphasized for this is "the purpose of his will, to the praise of his glorious grace." In other words this lavishing of free gifts resulting in a holy and blameless people were to show off his grace (unmerited favor on these elected ones).
Also in order to interrupt the flow of the scriptural argument you emphasize "us" as believers. Of course that's true that those elected will be believers, but you're obviously trying to manipulate this eternal decree of election to mean God's foresight of those exercising faith. Bad turn, completely destroying the meaning of the text, and robbing God of His glory in respect to this lavishing on of grace.
 
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hedrick

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What believers "were elected to do" ? That doesn't make sense. Yes it's saying that He chose, or elected us, "that" we would be...Seems subtle and insignificant difference but it's not. In other words this holiness and blamelessness would result from His election.

I didn’t comment on the OP because the phrases he added were brief enough that I wasn’t sure what they meant.

But I don’t see how you can object to the idea that we are called for a purpose. We were called to be Jesus’ servants (a term he uses a lot), and he makes it clear that being a servant means serving. So we are called for the purpose of showing his love, and preaching the Gospel to the world. Eph 2:10: “For we are what he has made us, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand to be our way of life.”
 
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FreeGrace2

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Paul is writing a letter to Ephesus, the usage of "we" in chapter 2 is not mostly a general we, or as you put it (believers per 1:19), but are those with him, having come so far in Christ, or "who first trusted in Christ" (per v12). For he distinguishes the many early "we's" from the "ye" which are the people to whom he's writing (begining in v13 "in whom ye also trusted..." emphasis on ye also, as distinct from the early we's). Tychicus, who is a beloved brother, and faithful minister in the Lord, may be an example of one of those in the "we," for Paul says Tychicus will make known unto you all things. For, only a minister of God can make known all things 6:21, and only he who has purged himself from these (vessels to dishonor), is sanctified, and meet for the masters use, and prepared unto every good work. Those to whom the early "we's" refer along with Paul, are not those to whom he would need to write things like 4:25-32, among plenty else. Furthermore, to the we, God was already abundant in wisdom, and had already made known to them the mystery v8,9. But for the "ye," these are the very things Paul is praying God would make known v17,18. You will see here that the we's eyes already have these things made known to them. The ye, to whom Paul is writing, needs their eyes enlightened to these things.

So what Paul is doing here is setting the we, whom he is among, as examples to the ye.
Neither "ye" nor "we" is the issue. The issue is who is being referenced in 1:4 in regard to being chosen by God. The issue is easily solved in 1:19 where Paul defines the "us". Believers. God chose believers, per 1:4. No way around it.
 
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FreeGrace2

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What believers "were elected to do" ? That doesn't make sense. Yes it's saying that He chose, or elected us, "that" we would be...Seems subtle and insignificant difference but it's not. In other words this holiness and blamelessness would result from His election.
Seems your view is that this election causes the result of being holy and blameless? I don't think so. Given the many other verses where believers are commanded to be holy and blameless, God isn't the cause. If He were, there would be no reason for the command. It would just happen.

The main purpose being emphasized for this is "the purpose of his will, to the praise of his glorious grace." In other words this lavishing of free gifts resulting in a holy and blameless people were to show off his grace (unmerited favor on these elected ones).
That's possible. But no one was being elected here for salvation. And when Col 1:23 is considered, believers are holy and blameless ONLY when they "continue in the faith".

Also in order to interrupt the flow of the scriptural argument you emphasize "us" as believers.
That's not true. Who else would the "us" refer to, if not to believers, both Paul and his audience? And he clearly defines who the "us" are in 1:19.

Of course that's true that those elected will be believers, but you're obviously trying to manipulate this eternal decree of election to mean God's foresight of those exercising faith.
I see it exactly opposite; that you are trying to manipulate the verse into saying that God chooses who will believe. It is very clear: God chose "us". And the "us" are believers, not future believers, as your claim insinuates.

Bad turn, completely destroying the meaning of the text, and robbing God of His glory in respect to this lavishing on of grace.
I believe I've refuted your claim. The text is simple and plain: God chose US. And He chose US to be holy and blameless. Not to salvation, not to faith. And then Paul defines clearly who the US refers to: believers.

You have not shown otherwise.
 
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FreeGrace2

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I didn’t comment on the OP because the phrases he added were brief enough that I wasn’t sure what they meant.
Please ask for clarification of anything that isn't clear.

But I don’t see how you can object to the idea that we are called for a purpose. We were called to be Jesus’ servants (a term he uses a lot), and he makes it clear that being a servant means serving. So we are called for the purpose of showing his love, and preaching the Gospel to the world. Eph 2:10: “For we are what he has made us, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand to be our way of life.”
Bingo! :thumbsup:
 
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stenerson

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I didn’t comment on the OP because the phrases he added were brief enough that I wasn’t sure what they meant.

But I don’t see how you can object to the idea that we are called for a purpose. We were called to be Jesus’ servants (a term he uses a lot), and he makes it clear that being a servant means serving. So we are called for the purpose of showing his love, and preaching the Gospel to the world. Eph 2:10: “For we are what he has made us, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand to be our way of life.”

I'm not objecting to the idea that we're called to a purpose. What he's trying to do is downplay the "chose us" to replace it with "God chose a nameless group, a group of faith exercising people (whom he foreknew would exercise faith.)
 
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Hentenza

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I see it exactly opposite; that you are trying to manipulate the verse into saying that God chooses who will believe. It is very clear: God chose "us". And the "us" are believers, not future believers, as your claim insinuates.

This is problematic. God "chose us" is a completed action (aorist indicative). He chose us "before the foundation of the world." Those that He chose were not alive before the foundation of the world, therefore those He chose are in fact future believers.
 
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FreeGrace2

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This is problematic. God "chose us" is a completed action (aorist indicative).
This is not a problem.

He chose us "before the foundation of the world." Those that He chose were not alive before the foundation of the world, therefore those He chose are in fact future believers.
Still not a problem. The point is that those He chose before the foundation of the world are still those who believe. No one else.

When God made this "choice" is not relevant. The point is who He chose. Believers.

Seems Calvinists want this verse to say that God chose who would become a believer, but it sure doesn't say that. It very clearly says that He chose believers to be holy and blameless.

I take the verse to mean that God chose the category "believer" before time. Doesn't matter that no believer existed at that time. In fact, irrelevant, since God is omniscient. The point remains that He chose believers for something; to be holy and blameless.

The OP asks for correction of my exegesis of the verse. What needs to be corrected, meaning those items in parentheses? That's what this thread is about. Thanks.
 
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