Enoch and Elijah

[Michie]

Eventually somebody is going to be right. There are also warnings in Scripture about scoffers when it comes to the end times. I know Mike believes in Christ's return. I think what gets to him is the crazy stuff about blood moons, rapture, etc. the way it has been twisted by Protestants mostly.

He would pull his "people have been wrong about it before" as his "proof" that I'm wrong.

 

[MikeK]

He would pull his "people have been wrong about it before" as his "proof" that I'm wrong.

No I wouldn't, that isn't proof and I wouldn't try to pass it off as such. Besides, maybe you're right. Maybe you can do some good. You can stop repeating that you aren't certain, I know, you're 99.9%, 999/1000 certain. We can know when the supposed Antichrist is dead and gone or prompts the second coming whether you were right or not, and we can all learn from it.

 

[LivingWordUnity]

No I wouldn't, that isn't proof and I wouldn't try to pass it off as such. Besides, maybe you're right. Maybe you can do some good. You can stop repeating that you aren't certain, I know, you're 99.9%, 999/1000 certain. We can know when the supposed Antichrist is dead and gone or prompts the second coming whether you were right or not, and we can all learn from it.

I know that you would use "people have been wrong before" as your "proof" because that's what you always do whenever the subject of biblical prophecy comes up. But I told you several times now that I'm not going to publicly say who I'm thinking the Antichrist might be. My private thoughts are none of your business, so stop with the obsessive hounding.

 

[benedictaoo]

I don't think we are living in the end days. I don't think the anti Christ is here. Too much stuff has to happen still. IMO. None of us know.

 

[LivingWordUnity]

I don't think we are living in the end days. I don't think the anti Christ is here. Too much stuff has to happen still. IMO. None of us know.

I hope you are wrong because if you are right it means that things are going to get even worse before the Second Coming. Although if it gets worse later it doesn't mean that the Antichrist isn't already in the world. Since he's born into the world like the rest of us he has his human lifespan of time to make the world progressively worse.

 

[benedictaoo]

The point is, what ever punishment God will send us, we can stop it. We need to pray, pray, pray, making sacrifices for sinners. Fatima's messages is for now, I think. I don't really know.

 

[benedictaoo]

I forgot about the Fatima secret. I think it was predicting JP's assassination and Mary saved him. I don't know, I can't remember. I know he went to Fatima placing the bullet in her crown or something thanking her for saving his life.

 

[LivingWordUnity]

I forgot about the Fatima secret. I think it was predicting JP's assassination and Mary saved him. I don't know, I can't remember. I know he went to Fatima placing the bullet in her crown or something thanking her for saving his life.

I don't know much about it. I heard that St. John Paul II believed the secret was about the assassination attempt on him. Speaking of the Blessed Virgin Mary and the End Times, what do you think about this old thread I created on CAFs (here)?

 

[benedictaoo]

It certainly may. I always thought of the wedding at cana as a prefigure of the Last Supper and the water and the wine symbolize baptism and blood and water the flowed from Jesus side. What's neat about our faith is that there isn't one way to interpret things but we have to be careful we keep our perspective because we are speculating. We must always be open to correction.

But I'll find a link for you to please read from the Vatican archives the secrets of Fatima. The thing we should derive most from Mary's message and warning is that the things Mary said would happen is not absolute. With heeding her warnings and fufilling her request to pray and make reparations for sinners much destruction can be diverted and conversions can happen. This is exactly the Divine Mercy message and what Francis is doing. However it may have already happened with end of the 20th century. So I don't know... We can't read tea leaves here. We can read the signs but we cannot predict the future. We know certain things must happen but we have no idea when.

 

[MikeK]

I know that you would use "people have been wrong before" as your "proof" because that's what you always do whenever the subject of biblical prophecy comes up. But I told you several times now that I'm not going to publicly say who I'm thinking the Antichrist might be. My private thoughts are none of your business, so stop with the obsessive hounding.

You don't know what I would do, yet you're comfortable claiming that you do. You have not observed me 1000 times in such an instance and therefore cannot have 99.9% certainty of what I would do, yet you're comfortable making such a proclimation. Your private thoughts are your business, but when you parade them about, saying on more than one occasion that you know the identity of the Antichrist, you should expect some interest. I understand that saving face is important to you and I understand that making statements that can be tested makes you uncomfortable, so maybe I won't ask for clarification of your statements anymore. I will, of course, always invite and welcome questions about and criticisms of anything I say.

 

[LivingWordUnity]

You don't know what I would do, yet you're comfortable claiming that you do. You have not observed me 1000 times in such an instance and therefore cannot have 99.9% certainty of what I would do, yet you're comfortable making such a proclimation. Your private thoughts are your business, but when you parade them about, saying on more than one occasion that you know the identity of the Antichrist, you should expect some interest. I understand that saving face is important to you and I understand that making statements that can be tested makes you uncomfortable, so maybe I won't ask for clarification of your statements anymore. I will, of course, always invite and welcome questions about and criticisms of anything I say.

That figure I gave was an estimation of my subjective confidence level. I feel about 99.9% sure that the one I'm thinking about is the Antichrist. The way I feel about it is the way I feel. Everyone can express their opinions here the way they see fit as long as it is in keeping with the rules. And we have a right to keep to ourselves what we want to keep to ourselves without someone trying to be the thought police and hounding us for more information. Why is that so hard for you to understand?

 

[MikeK]

That figure I gave was an estimation of my subjective confidence level. I feel about 99.9% sure that the one I'm thinking about is the Antichrist. The way I feel about it is the way I feel. Everyone can express their opinions here the way they see fit as long as it is in keeping with the rules. And we have a right to keep to ourselves what we want to keep to ourselves without someone trying to be the thought police and hounding us for more information. Why is that so hard for you to understand?

The idea of a subjective confidence level is hard for me to understand, I guess. What does that mean?

You have every right to keep secrets that could serve to protect humanity to yourself, I guess, but I don't know why you would. If there is some bit of wisdom that I could share with you that could potentially protect you from the Antichrist, I promise to share it with you and with all.

 

[LivingWordUnity]

The idea of a subjective confidence level is hard for me to understand, I guess. What does that mean?

It means that it's my opinion. Since I know that I'm not infallible, I have chosen to not say publicly who I think the Antichrist probably is. And it's not for me to tell people who I think it is. If it's up to anyone it's up to the leadership of the Church to do it. Other than that, people can study it for themselves by looking into Sacred Scripture, listening to the Church, and keeping their eyes open to what's going on in the world.

 

[MikeK]

It means that it's my opinion. Since I know that I'm not infallible, I have chosen to not say publicly who I think the Antichrist probably is. And it's not for me to tell people who I think it is. If it's up to anyone it's up to the leadership of the Church to do it. Other than that, people can study it for themselves by looking into Sacred Scripture, listening to the Church, and keeping their eyes open to what's going on in the world.

I guess I still don't understand what you mean by subjective opinion. What is the difference between your subjective opinion with a 99.9% certainty and an objective opinion with the same certainty? I'm not familiar with such qualifiers in this sense. I strongly disagree with your idea that it isn't your job to share information that could save lives and souls and that it is better to remain silent and leave it to the Church. That doesn't seem to fit with the commands Christ gave us.

 

[pdudgeon]

Eventually somebody is going to be right. There are also warnings in Scripture about scoffers when it comes to the end times. I know Mike believes in Christ's return. I think what gets to him is the crazy stuff about blood moons, rapture, etc. the way it has been twisted by Protestants mostly.

he's entitled to his opinion, but he's not entitled to scoff at scripture, the prophets, fellow Catholics, or Jesus' direct word.
but when his opinion contradicts scripture he's on shakey ground, and he needs to realize that for his own sake.

 

[pdudgeon]

I hope you are wrong because if you are right it means that things are going to get even worse before the Second Coming. Although if it gets worse later it doesn't mean that the Antichrist isn't already in the world. Since he's born into the world like the rest of us he has his human lifespan of time to make the world progressively worse.

one thought here...
i seem to remember that the bible spoke about 'birth pangs' in relation to the Second Comming.

For those with experience in the birth pangs department, we know four things:
1. when they start they usually don't stop unless by outside medical intervention
2. they ALWAYS increase in frequency, duration, and pain level.
3. the pain is worth the wait.
4. it is only the uneducated or inexperienced person who would not be able to recognize
when a woman is in labor, or that a birth was emminant.

these things above are why it is important to pay attention to what is happening around us in the world,
compare it to what has gone before, and wait with expectation for what is to come.

 

[MikeK]

he's entitled to his opinion, but he's not entitled to scoff at scripture, the prophets, fellow Catholics, or Jesus' direct word.
but when his opinion contradicts scripture he's on shakey ground, and he needs to realize that for his own sake.

Which particular bit of scripture am I contradicting? I haven't scoffed at Jesus or anything He said, and to suggest such is rather dishonest of you. I'll stop short of telling you that you need to realize that for your own sake.

 

[pdudgeon]

It certainly may. I always thought of the wedding at cana as a prefigure of the Last Supper and the water and the wine symbolize baptism and blood and water the flowed from Jesus side. What's neat about our faith is that there isn't one way to interpret things but we have to be careful we keep our perspective because we are speculating. We must always be open to correction.

But I'll find a link for you to please read from the Vatican archives the secrets of Fatima. The thing we should derive most from Mary's message and warning is that the things Mary said would happen is not absolute. With heeding her warnings and fufilling her request to pray and make reparations for sinners much destruction can be diverted and conversions can happen. This is exactly the Divine Mercy message and what Francis is doing. However it may have already happened with end of the 20th century. So I don't know... We can't read tea leaves here. We can read the signs but we cannot predict the future. We know certain things must happen but we have no idea when.

question on the Fatima secret, please.

i haven't seen it yet, so this question might be answered by your link.
but how do we know that what the Vatican has released is the true text?

 

[MikeK]

one thought here...
i seem to remember that the bible spoke about 'birth pangs' in relation to the Second Comming.

For those with experience in the birth pangs department, we know four things:
1. when they start they usually don't stop unless by outside medical intervention
2. they ALWAYS increase in frequency, duration, and pain level.
3. the pain is worth the wait.
4. it is only the uneducated or inexperienced person who would not be able to recognize
when a woman is in labor, or that a birth was emminant.

these things above are why it is important to pay attention to what is happening around us in the world,
compare it to what has gone before, and wait with expectation for what is to come.

Great point, let's consider what has come before.

WW2 in the mid 20th century killed 60 million people.

The Three Kingdoms War killed 40 million in the 1st century.

The Mongol Conquests in the 13th century killed about 35 million.

These are the worst human disasters in recorded history.

 

[Michie]

It's more than human disaster.
It has much more to do with spiritual disasters and being turned away from God. The things you mentioned would just be a side effect of something much deeper in prophecy of endtimes. Which states most disasters would be natural.

Great point, let's consider what has come before.

WW2 in the mid 20th century killed 60 million people.

The Three Kingdoms War killed 40 million in the 1st century.

The Mongol Conquests in the 13th century killed about 35 million.

These are the worst human disasters in recorded history.