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plain talk

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all of this ^^^ will be given to whom it is necessary to know; namely the Jewish remnant

There will be a Jewish remnant after the Abomination of Desolation.

Matthew 24:15

But by this time the Testimony of the Two Witnesses will be over as well. So to wait until then would be to wait until after the fact. In order for this information to be useful, it needs to be available presently. Especially since Iran has shown off its massive arsenal of underground missiles that can reach Israel. They boldly state that Israel will not be in existence within the next 25 years (but I feel that they will not be that patient).
 
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pdudgeon

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for us to speculate when it happens is of no concern--it's not ment for us.
i think that's one reason why God chose two prophets from the Old Testiment time
whose credentials will 'pass muster' with the ones who need to hear the message.
 
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MikeK

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Missiles that have no WMD payload and have never been tested at range are not worrying. Once you scratch below the surface, things get a lot less alarming. What is the estimated CEP of these missiles? What is the intended warhead? What is their range with a low-yield, low-tech thermonuclear device? What sort of penaids are employed to defeat Iron Dome and Aegis Ashore?
 
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pdudgeon

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how about the hand of God? i think that would be pretty effective towards defeating a few missles.
 
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plain talk

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for us to speculate when it happens is of no concern--it's not meant for us.
How can you say such a thing? If the believing Jews can get an ample warning, many lives could be saved. The whole Holy Bible is meant for us. Just because you do not understand something and what it is used for means that you just tear it out and throw it away.
 
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LivingWordUnity

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God chose not to reveal to us the date when Jesus will return.

However, Sacred Scripture tells us of the things to expect that lead up to it.

For this cause, I say, when He [Jesus] had told all things, both the times and the seasons, and had brought it to the very doors ("for it is near," He says, "even at the doors"), He was silent as to the day. For if you seek after the day and hour, you shall not hear them of me, says He; but if of times and preludes, without hiding anything, I will tell you all exactly.

- St. John Chrysostom, Homily 77 on Matthew
.
 
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Rhamiel

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I heard an interesting view

it was that the Two Witnesses represented the mission of the Church in the World
the worship in the Temple represented the Worship of the Church
and the Woman in labor represented the spiritual role of the Church

it was something about them all having the same length of time?
 
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pdudgeon

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and God will see to it that they will have ample warning, so that many lives will be saved.
He saw to that long before we were born, so that with or without us, it will happen. and that is good.

The whole bible is ment for us to understand, but not all of it is directed towards us.
In the same way that a teacher can divide her students into separate groups and give each group direction,
God can do the same with us.
 
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LivingWordUnity

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St. Bede believed that the two witnesses would be Enoch and Elijah, but he also offered a broader interpretation by pointing out how the Church is made up of two races that became one race. While Elijah was a Jew, Enoch was a Gentile since he was before Abraham. So it seems to make sense that they would return to be the two witnesses, not only because they never died but also because together they represent the two races of the universal Church.

"That the cruelty of the bad may not alarm the hearer, he mentions, that the Church also, which of two races is made one, is to become illustrious by the gift of miracles. The Church, too, ever contemplating its head, namely Christ, teaching in the flesh, will prophesy, it is said, for two years and a-half. For the months of three years and a-half, namely, thirty times forty-two, make up two hundred and sixty days. But Daniel writes, that the days of the same period in which the abomination of desolation is to be set up are one thousand two hundred and ninety." - St. Bede, The Explanation of the Apocalypse
 
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pdudgeon

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It's interesting that God sent two witnesses to Sodom and Gomorrah, and He is sending two witnesses at the end.

precisely. And on the the testimony of two witnesses, it shall be done.
 
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LivingWordUnity

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precisely. And on the the testimony of two witnesses, it shall be done.
"Likewise as it was in the days of Lot—they ate, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they built, but on the day when Lot went out from Sodom fire and brimstone rained from heaven and destroyed them all—so will it be on the day when the Son of man is revealed." - Jesus (Luke 17:28-30)
 
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LivingWordUnity

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I always found it interesting how the number 40 is used throughout Scripture as well.

  • In the time of Noah, it rained for 40 days and 40 nights.
  • The ancient people of Israel wandered in the wilderness for 40 years.
  • Moses fasted for 40 days and 40 nights, and Jesus did the same.
  • There are 4 gospels, and ten symbolizes completion. 4 X 10 = 40.
In addition, see: The Significance of Numbers in Scripture
 
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WarriorAngel

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St Chrysostom referred to them being 'like' Enoch and Elijah.
Just as St John the Baptist was like Elijah.

Since technically they took their flesh to heaven in the OT - there's no telling how God will work things.
 
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LivingWordUnity

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St Chrysostom referred to them being 'like' Enoch and Elijah.
Just as St John the Baptist was like Elijah.

Since technically they took their flesh to heaven in the OT - there's no telling how God will work things.
Earlier in this thread, I quoted what St. John Chrysostom said about it. He says that just as there was a forerunner for Christ's First Coming there will also be a forerunner for Christ's Second Coming and that he will be Elijah.
 
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