Enlightenment

[CantThinkofaUserName]

How did some of the prophets of back when become enlightened? Did they have to read special books? Or did their knowledge just sprout through continued meditation? Could it possibly be a combination of both? Any scripture or historical facts would be appreciated.

Thanks!

 

[Confess]

God appeared to them. Moses saw and spoke to Him. A Spirit came to Daniel. The spirit of God blessed Jeremiah's tongue in the womb etc.

 

[Criada]

The Holy Spirit.
Same way God speaks to people today.

 

[tapero]

How did some of the prophets of back when become enlightened? Did they have to read special books? Or did their knowledge just sprout through continued meditation? Could it possibly be a combination of both? Any scripture or historical facts would be appreciated.

Thanks!

God would tell the prophets what to say and the prophets would tell the people.

Also angels appeared to some men (generally prophets if I recall correctly) and gave messages from God.

Also, Jesus preincarnate (that is before He was born) appeared in the OT several times.

Moses met with the Lord and talked with Him.

Also, God would talk directly to other prophets to do a task, such as Noah (to build the boat, and flood), Jonah, (to preach to Ninevah, etc.)

And there's probably more but I'm just waking up and that's what is coming to mind at the moment.

Now of course we have the bible to gain truth from and that is the source for God's written word. He also uses the Holy Spirit in our lives, by bringing scripture to our minds (in my life) and truths from the bible.

blessings,
tapero

 

[MarineForChrist]

"Enlightenment" like you may be talking about, in the Buddhist or Hindu sense, is not really a Christian concept. We go through a process of sanctification, or becoming more Christlike, but "enlightenment" is not really a goal. All of our knowledge comes through God's Word and His Holy Spirit, there's no epiphany that we hit where we suddenly realize what's going on with the world. Technically speaking, once a person is saved and accepts Jesus as their savior, then they ARE enlightened in the most important sense. True perfection won't really be achieved by any person until they have left this world and entered God's kingdom. Christ was the only man to have been perfect.

 

[Stinker]

How did some of the prophets of back when become enlightened? Did they have to read special books? Or did their knowledge just sprout through continued meditation? Could it possibly be a combination of both? Any scripture or historical facts would be appreciated.

Thanks!

Of course the prophets had to study the Old Law. However, it is written that they had a measure of God's Spirit (power) indwelling them.

Jesus studied the Old Law and some also believe (me as well) that He studied Buddhist teachings while in an Ebionite sect. However, it is written that He also had the Spirit unlimited as well. (Jn.3:34)

 

[Adstar]

How did some of the prophets of back when become enlightened? Did they have to read special books? Or did their knowledge just sprout through continued meditation? Could it possibly be a combination of both? Any scripture or historical facts would be appreciated.

Thanks!

God came to them.

If you look at most of the Prophets they did not come to God and seek to be prophets.

Moses was a murderer who went on the run and probably would have lived the rest of His life as a herder in the wilderness if God had not appeared to Him.

And we know Jonah was not very keen on being a prophet. He tried to run as far away as he could when God tapped him on the shoulder.

There was even a prophet who God came to when He was a little boy and selected him to be a Prophet.

Thing is most of the great prophets where not what you would call devout men of God. God does not seem to pick "religious types".

I don't think any of the prophets where looking to become prophets when God selected them for the Job.

God has his reasons for picking whom He picks. But as to the Why??? we can only speculate.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

[MrFreshdew]

How did some of the prophets of back when become enlightened? Did they have to read special books? Or did their knowledge just sprout through continued meditation? Could it possibly be a combination of both? Any scripture or historical facts would be appreciated.

Thanks!

Hi CantThinkofaUserName
1 samuel 9:9 pophets called seers& men of God sent as divine messengers
a divine call 4 Abraham Genesis Chapter 12
a sign 4 Moses in Exodus chapter 3
just a few -hope that helps
and forgive us,sometimes we don't know exactly watt your asking,sew i hope thats close -have a blessed day

 

[CantThinkofaUserName]

Thanks to everyone for the help, it's greatly appreciated. I had a few questions but they slipped my mind as soon as I read the below quote. I'm hoping they'll come back to me, if not - thanks anyway.

Jesus studied the Old Law and some also believe (me as well) that He studied Buddhist teachings while in an Ebionite sect. However, it is written that He also had the Spirit unlimited as well. (Jn.3:34)

I've heard this before, can you (or anyone else) please explain to me why Jesus needed to study? Why did God's son (and I've even heard some call Him God) need to study? Was He not one with God? Was he not omniscient?

Thanks!

 

[tapero]

Thanks to everyone for the help, it's greatly appreciated. I had a few questions but they slipped my mind as soon as I read the below quote. I'm hoping they'll come back to me, if not - thanks anyway.



I've heard this before, can you (or anyone else) please explain to me why Jesus needed to study? Why did God's son (and I've even heard some call Him God) need to study? Was He not one with God? Was he not omniscient?

Thanks!

Hi, I can't think of any place in the bible where it said Jesus studied. What happened is every thing he saw the father say and do is what He did.

So, this is something I've been longing to study, that is the part about Jesus being fully man and fully God.

So while on earth Jesus spoke to the Father and those are what He taught us. I can't explain it more than that, as again its an area of study i need to do.

But we also know that Jesus is God while on earth. We know this by scriptures and by things He did.

So, as He and the Father are one, I suppose they were in communion all the time with each other, even tho we see Jesus go off to pray. So, again don't fully grasp it all.

Perhaps when Jesus is saying all He learned from the father I give to you is to show the disciples that the Father is God as well.

We do know that in one instance Jesus didn't know something only the father knew, which was when the end times will occur.

For some reason that was withheld from Jesus by the Father, tho now in heaven Jesus may well know when it shall come to pass.

So, can't fully explain it, but no Jesus didn't go off and study, he taught exactly what His father said and did and part of this may to do with his being fully man and fully God, I do not know.

Of course we know this; Jesus is the way the truth and the life, no man comes to the Father except by the son.

So, it's all interesting and so much to learn, and the best thing is to focus on Christ and learn of Christ of course, and we continue to grow our whole lives and then in heaven will also grow for eternity getting to know God as he is infinite I believe.

 

[CantThinkofaUserName]

Thanks for the quick reply.

But we also know that Jesus is God while on earth. We know this by scriptures and by things He did.

///

We do know that in one instance Jesus didn't know something only the father knew, which was when the end times will occur.

If the above quotes were true, then that would imply that God is not omniscient, wouldn't it? Let me explain what I mean:

You state that: Jesus is God. God is omniscient. So therefore either God is not omniscient (because Jesus - who is God - does NOT know when the end of time will occur) or Jesus is not God, because God is omniscient.

Can't fully explain it, but no Jesus didn't go off and study

How can you be so certain of this?

 

[tapero]

Thanks for the quick reply.

Hi, somehow this post got severely messed up, so it's out of order, i dont konw how it happened or how to fix it, but the end is the beginning and the beginning is the end. and your quote is also in the middle as well..hugs, tapero

If the above quotes were true, then that would imply that God is not omniscient, wouldn't it? Let me explain what I mean:

You state that: Jesus is God. God is omniscient. So therefore either God is not omniscient (because Jesus - who is God - does NOT know when the end of time will occur) or Jesus is not God, because God is omniscient.

As to God knowing all, I am of the theology that God does not know what we will do tomorrow. Although he has ordained things which will occur as he has predetermined they will occur, such as the end times yet to play out. they are ordained by Him and will occur.

but as to whether I was going to come to believe in christ or not, he did not know until I came to christ.

As to whether I'll buy a blue or red car tomorrow, he doesn't know until i do so,tho he is intelligent and knowledgable beyond our imagination and knows us inside and out, so probably know i might go for a blue car,but my point is he does not know.

Some, many do not believe this way and that's okay. It's a theological understanding I have and have from my understandig of scripture.

So, when Abraham was to offer his son as God had asked, when he held the knife to slay his son, God said stop, now i know you would not withhold your son, your only son, so you see God did not know until it occured.

I hope I'm not getting the waters more muddied.

but for whatever reason Jesus did not know when the end times would occur, I just tuck that in my mind and say okay, this is for some reason how it is.

But otherwise, Jesus said,all the Father tells me I tell you.

So, why, is it because Jesus was man on earth and did not avail himself to all his own attributes.

I have to study and funny, it's something I recently wanted to study more and am looking for someone to study this topic with.

Again, Jesus always was and is, and He created all there is.

God bless, keep asking, you have good questions hon,

blessings,
tapero





How can you be so certain of this?[/quote]

Ah, see this is what i was explaining. An area I've yet to study. About Christ being fully man and fully God.

You see he was born and grew up, and so this is the part I dont fully grasp.

That the Father withheld the time of the end from Jesus is not unusual at all. Jesus created all their is. Jesus is the creator if I recall correctly. So, the thing is we in our humanness and with what scripture we have can not fully fathom God at all.

I mean, sometimes when I pray, I find myself imagining a man, because that's natural for us to do. And God, Jesus has a body, he is in heaven, but still, I'd rather not imagine any person but the mind tends to do so.

We can not fully grasp what God is like, or how He withheld that one bit from Jesus or why. Bible doesn't say why. And Jesus surely would not have told us of the date were we not supposed to know, but it is mentioned, and so i mention it. So for some reason the Father did not let Jesus in on this part. could it be that the times were not yet determined. It may very well be that's the answer.

And Jesus saying only the father knows meaning at that time possibly that it's not known yet, and is up to the father, since Jesus is still on earth. We don't know. We can only guess.

So, the trinity is not an easy concept at all. We read the bible and see many things that we wonder about and with a solid foundation in Christ we can just trust whatever it is, that when it's time for us to grasp or understand we will, if ever, in this life. We fully trust God is what I'm saying. There are mysterys we don't and can't know, not yet revealed, and won't be till perhaps heaven, not sure or until the end times start if we are here when they do.

 

[Criada]

Thanks for the quick reply.



If the above quotes were true, then that would imply that God is not omniscient, wouldn't it? Let me explain what I mean:

You state that: Jesus is God. God is omniscient. So therefore either God is not omniscient (because Jesus - who is God - does NOT know when the end of time will occur) or Jesus is not God, because God is omniscient.



How can you be so certain of this?

God is omniscient. But the Bible tells us that Jeus became man...

Philippians 2
6Who, being in very nature God,
did not consider equality with God something to be grasped,
7but made himself nothing,
taking the very nature of a servant,
being made in human likeness.

So whilst He was still fully God, when he was on earth, Jesus was aloso fully human - with all the limitations that implied.
The Bible also says that He grew in wisdom (Luke 2:52).
I don't begin to understand this - but there is a difference between the knowledge that Jesus the man had, as opposed to that which He has as God.

 

[CantThinkofaUserName]

As to God knowing all, I am of the theology that God does not know what we will do tomorrow.

Ok, so by your definition God is not omniscient. So do you also not believe that God has seen the end of times? Because "tomorrow" and "whenever the end of times may be" is still unknown to man, isn't it? The Armageddon is a kind of "tomorrow", wouldn't you say?

Also, how about when Judas betrayed Jesus? How to explain Jesus knowing before it happened? Wouldn't this imply that he saw "tomorrow"?

 

[CantThinkofaUserName]

God is omniscient. But the Bible tells us that Jeus became man...

Philippians 2
6Who, being in very nature God,
did not consider equality with God something to be grasped,
7but made himself nothing,
taking the very nature of a servant,
being made in human likeness.

So whilst He was still fully God, when he was on earth, Jesus was aloso fully human - with all the limitations that implied.
The Bible also says that He grew in wisdom (Luke 2:52).
I don't begin to understand this - but there is a difference between the knowledge that Jesus the man had, as opposed to that which He has as God.

Does "being human" make Him any less Godly - or any less of God? Does he know less because He is human?

 

[tapero]

Does "being human" make Him any less Godly - or any less of God? Does he know less because He is human?

No, though again as to while on earth, I don't fully grasp, but as to Him now seated at the right hand of the Father, He is not any less God. It's just that being human will probably always be a part of who He is.

In Revelation John sees him looking as if a lamb slain.

In the stoning of Stephen, Stephen looks up heaven is open and he sees Jesus.

Every knee will bow and every tongue will confess that Jesus is Lord. This will occur in the end times.

So, while He's always been God, it's just that need to grasp more fully how it ws on earth and the last poster gave excellent thought on that and scripture as well.

 

[Criada]

Does "being human" make Him any less Godly - or any less of God? Does he know less because He is human?

It does not make Him any less God.
But I think that it does make Him know less. Because whilst on earth, He accepted the limitations of humanity.
And the human brain can never fully comprehend God, or contain all of His knowledge.
Now, as tapero said, He is glorified with His Father, and knows everything. But whilst on earth, no.

 

[CantThinkofaUserName]

No...

Thanks, Tapero.

My question was in reference to what Criada wrote above. Can't seem to wrap my head around how Jesus could be God and human and not be fully knowing as is God.

It's like saying this:

- Jesus = 100% God
- Jesus = 100% Human
- God knows ALL, All = 100%
- Jesus, Who is 100% God, knows less than 100%, which means He doesn't know it all?

That's why I asked the question, "Does 'being human' make Him any less Godly?", because if the answer is "No", as you suggested, then Jesus MUST know ALL because God knows all.

 

[CantThinkofaUserName]

He is glorified with His Father, and knows everything. But whilst on earth, no.

So then He is not "fully" God?

 

[Criada]

Thanks, Tapero.

My question was in reference to what Criada wrote above. Can't seem to wrap my head around how Jesus could be God and human and not be fully knowing as is God.

It's like saying this:

- Jesus = 100% God
- Jesus = 100% Human
- God knows ALL, All = 100%
- Jesus, which is 100% God, knows less than 100%, which means he doesn't know it all?

That's why I asked the question, "Does 'being human' make Him any less Godly?", because if the answer is "No", as you suggested, then Jesus MUST know ALL because God knows all.

Mind boggling, isn't it!
I can't explain - I am not even sure that we are capable of understanding.
But - an analogy may help.
I have good eyesight, I am 100% able to see.
However, in an attempt to identify with a blind friend, I choose to spend a day wearing a blind fold.
Thus I am 100% blind, during the time that I choose to keep the blindfold on.
But the reality of who I am is still the same - I have voluntarily 'given up' my sight for a time, but it is still there...

Sorry - not a brilliant analogy, but the best I can thnk of right now.