Enlightenment

[CantThinkofaUserName]

Sorry - not a brilliant analogy, but the best I can thnk of right now.

We're all attempting (lol) to learn, there's no need to be sorry.

 

[Adstar]

Thanks to everyone for the help, it's greatly appreciated. I had a few questions but they slipped my mind as soon as I read the below quote. I'm hoping they'll come back to me, if not - thanks anyway.



I've heard this before, can you (or anyone else) please explain to me why Jesus needed to study? Why did God's son (and I've even heard some call Him God) need to study? Was He not one with God? Was he not omniscient?

Thanks!

There is no biblical support for Jesus needing to study.

What the bible says is Jesus Said whatever the Spirit lead Him to speak.

John 14:10
Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father in Me? The words that I speak to you I do not speak on My own authority; but the Father who dwells in Me does the works.


Also when Jesus was a Child His family visited Jerusalem and Jesus became seperated from Joseph and Mary and came to be in the temple discussing things with the temple priests. His answers to the priests amased them and also His mother was also amazed when they found Him.

Luke 2
43 When they had finished the days, as they returned, the Boy Jesus lingered behind in Jerusalem. And Joseph and His mother did not know it; 44 but supposing Him to have been in the company, they went a day’s journey, and sought Him among their relatives and acquaintances. 45 So when they did not find Him, they returned to Jerusalem, seeking Him. 46 Now so it was that after three days they found Him in the temple, sitting in the midst of the teachers, both listening to them and asking them questions. 47 And all who heard Him were astonished at His understanding and answers. 48 So when they saw Him, they were amazed; and His mother said to Him, “Son, why have You done this to us? Look, Your father and I have sought You anxiously.”
49 And He said to them, “Why did you seek Me? Did you not know that I must be about My Father’s business?” 50 But they did not understand the statement which He spoke to them.

Jesus did not need to read books. He had all the knowledge He needed to do His mission.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

[Adstar]

Ok, so by your definition God is not omniscient. So do you also not believe that God has seen the end of times? Because "tomorrow" and "whenever the end of times may be" is still unknown to man, isn't it? The Armageddon is a kind of "tomorrow", wouldn't you say?

Also, how about when Judas betrayed Jesus? How to explain Jesus knowing before it happened? Wouldn't this imply that he saw "tomorrow"?

I think you are trying to understand the nature of Jesus and God. But let me tell you understanding this is probably beyond the understanding of the human mind.

God knows the beggining and the end. Prophecy Reveals the future and therefore God has seen the future and knows it. Nothing will catch God by surprise.

Armageddon has not yet happend, so yes it is future.

Jesus also knew the future both His personal future during His time on earth and also the End Times.


Matthew 20
17 Now Jesus, going up to Jerusalem, took the twelve disciples aside on the road and said to them, 18 “Behold, we are going up to Jerusalem, and the Son of Man will be betrayed to the chief priests and to the scribes; and they will condemn Him to death, 19 and deliver Him to the Gentiles to mock and to scourge and to crucify. And the third day He will rise again.”

So even before Jesus entered Jerusalem He knew he would be executed. All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

[CantThinkofaUserName]

I appreciate the response, thanks!

I think you are trying to understand the nature of Jesus and God. But let me tell you understanding this is probably beyond the understanding of the human mind.

Well, I've got to commend you if you've known that and not lost an ounce of faith. I may be a simpleton, because it truly frightens me to believe in something with the very core of my being, when there are things that, as you say, we possibly cannot add up.

I'm an Agnostic, and have been questioning whether Christianity is the "real deal" for quite some time now, and to be completely honest, thinking that "our mind can't comprehend" makes me assume that maybe Jesus wasn't the "Son" of God. Simple, maybe - but that's what I take from it. How do we know that Jesus wasn't, hands-down, thee most intellignet human being ever known to man? Please tell me how anyone can be ceratin that Jesus didn't study Kaballah, or Buhdism, or spent 12 years studying Tapas in India? I mean, you can always say that because it isn't in the bible, that it may not be important for you to know, and I would have to respect that, but that surely does not in any way indicate to me that any of the above information is historically untrue. Wouldn't you agree? If not, please explain.

I mean, really, isn't it even a little bit scary to you? Please, try to see this from my point of view. If every religion claims that you just "have to believe", because we can't understand the connection between, for example, "Muhammad & God"? What happens then? Christians don't believe nor do they follow Islamic teachings. If the Islamic community says the same things to their followers, what then? Does it make it true? Or should they (I'm assuming, in your opinion) search a little bit harder to find "the truth", which is Christianity? (Christians are told to preach and to convert "the whole world", so that's why I assume you would want to convert someone who is of the Islamic community to "the truth".)

Let's say there was a religion out there, that was a carbon-copy of Christianity; all that was ever asked of them was to "love, pray, and worship the 'trinity'". The twist here, is that Jesus is not the "Son", they've replaced the "Son" with an idol. They raise their kids to believe in this idol from day one, and tell them that they simply need to follow "him" because it is the "right thing to do". He has a "full connection" with the "most high", and when asked "why then does he not seem to know 'all' as does 'the most high'", they're told to "just believe" and that "you are unable to understand it", and that if you "don't believe in him", that you will "never see the kingdom".

 

[Criada]

Let's say there was a religion out there, that was a carbon-copy of Christianity; all that was ever asked of them was to "love, pray, and worship the 'trinity'". The twist here, is that Jesus is not the "Son", they've replaced the "Son" with an idol. They raise their kids to believe in this idol from day one, and tell them that they simply need to follow "him" because it is the "right thing to do". He has a "full connection" with the "most high", and when asked "why then does he not seem to know 'all' as does 'the most high'", they're told to "just believe" and that "you are unable to understand it", and that if you "don't believe in him", that you will "never see the kingdom".

Thing is, it's not a case of just believing because someone says so, or because you were brought up to believe it.
That is indeed a scarey concept.
I don't follow Jesus because it's "the right thing to do", I follow Him because I know Him and I love Him.
I *know* that Jesus is God because I have a relationship with Him that affects every part of my life. And it is because of that that I can trust Him in the bits I don't understand.

 

[CantThinkofaUserName]

Thing is, it's not a case of just believing because someone says so, or because you were brought up to believe it.
That is indeed a scarey concept.
I don't follow Jesus because it's "the right thing to do", I follow Him because I know Him and I love Him.
I *know* that Jesus is God because I have a relationship with Him that affects every part of my life. And it is because of that that I can trust Him in the bits I don't understand.

Can't the exact same thing be said about other religions? Wouldn't you agree that almost every other religion claims the same things that you do? Most of them state that they have a "connection" with their god and that they "know him" and "love him", as well. They are just as confident in their beliefs as you are with yours.

How would you explain to someone of a religion different than yours that what they are feeling is wrong? Or that they are following the "wrong" god?

 

[Ephesians4]

Thanks to everyone for the help, it's greatly appreciated. I had a few questions but they slipped my mind as soon as I read the below quote. I'm hoping they'll come back to me, if not - thanks anyway.



I've heard this before, can you (or anyone else) please explain to me why Jesus needed to study? Why did God's son (and I've even heard some call Him God) need to study? Was He not one with God? Was he not omniscient?

Thanks!

Does it say that Jesus studied? I only see that Jesus taught the older rabbis in the Temple about God when He was a young boy. It does say that He grew in wisdom, but Godly wisdom doesn't come through study, it comes through the Holy Spirit.

Luk 2:39 When they had accomplished all things that were according to the law of the Lord, they returned into Galilee, to their own city, Nazareth.
Luk 2:40 The child was growing, and was becoming strong in spirit, being filled with wisdom, and the grace of God was upon him.
Luk 2:41 His parents went every year to Jerusalem at the feast of the Passover.
Luk 2:42 When he was twelve years old, they went up to Jerusalem according to the custom of the feast,
Luk 2:43 and when they had fulfilled the days, as they were returning, the boy Jesus stayed behind in Jerusalem. Joseph and his mother didn't know it,
Luk 2:44 but supposing him to be in the company, they went a day's journey, and they looked for him among their relatives and acquaintances.
Luk 2:45 When they didn't find him, they returned to Jerusalem, looking for him.
Luk 2:46 It happened after three days they found him in the temple, sitting in the midst of the teachers, both listening to them, and asking them questions.
Luk 2:47 All who heard him were amazed at his understanding and his answers.
Luk 2:48 When they saw him, they were astonished, and his mother said to him, "Son, why have you treated us this way? Behold, your father and I were anxiously looking for you."
Luk 2:49 He said to them, "Why were you looking for me? Didn't you know that I must be in my Father's house?"
Luk 2:50 They didn't understand the saying which he spoke to them.
Luk 2:51 And he went down with them, and came to Nazareth. He was subject to them, and his mother kept all these sayings in her heart.
Luk 2:52 And Jesus increased in wisdom and stature, and in favor with God and men.

 

[Ephesians4]

Can't the exact same thing be said about other religions? Wouldn't you agree that almost every other religion claims the same things that you do? Most of them state that they have a "connection" with their god and that they "know him" and "love him", as well. They are just as confident in their beliefs as you are with yours.

How would you explain to someone of a religion different than yours that what they are feeling is wrong? Or that they are following the "wrong" god?

Good point. Feelings aren't enough. You have to understand.

For what it's worth, here's my take on what it means to be a Christian. This is what I believe and why I believe it. I hope you find this interesting.

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Who is Jesus? Do You Know the Truth?
[SIZE=-1]The Bible warns, “There is a way that seems right to a man, but in the end it leads to death.” (Proverbs 14:12) [/SIZE]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]Jesus said, “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter into the Kingdom of Heaven; but he who does the will of my [/SIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]Father who is in heaven. Many will tell me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, didn’t we prophesy in your name, in your name cast out demons, and in your name do many mighty works?’ Then I will tell them, ‘I never knew you. Depart from me, you who work iniquity.’ (The Bible, Matthew 7:21-23)[/SIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]Do you know the real truth?[/SIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]Understanding God’s Plan[/SIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]Who is God? [/SIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]Simply put, God is the highest power that exists. In fact, He is all-powerful. He is the ruler of everything. He is the only God. No one created Him. He has no beginning and no end. Although His throne sits in Heaven, God knows everything. His presence is everywhere. God is love and is fully pure and holy. There is no evil in Him. God is perfect. God is completely fair. God consists of 3 parts: the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit (much like we have a body, a soul/mind and a spirit). He created everything, including the universe and all that is in it. He created Heaven and earth. He created humans, too, and even made humans in His image! [/SIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]It’s hard to grasp the amount of love that God put into His creation and how much love He has for us. Although He does not need our love, He does want to be loved by us in return. In fact, loving God is our true purpose. This is the meaning of life. [/SIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]True love, though, can only be expressed when a person is not required to love the other person. In other words, for humans to be able to truly love God, He had to give humans the free will to choose otherwise. He had to give humans the ability to choose not to love Him and not to obey the laws He created for us. [/SIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]The First Human Rebellion Against God [/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]The first two humans were Adam and Eve. They lived in the Garden of Eden. Food was provided to them on trees and a river running through the garden provided water. God told Adam and Eve that they could eat of any tree they wanted except one - the tree of knowledge of good and evil. God warned Adam that eating of that tree would result in death. [/SIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]Sadly, Eve (and then Adam) disobeyed God. This single act introduced sin and the consequence of sin–spiritual and physical death–into the world. Since then, every one of us has inherited a desire to sin and the consequence of death. [/SIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]Sin: The Barrier Between God and Us [/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]What is sin? Sin is disobedience to God. Sin is rebellion against God’s will. Sin is breaking God's law. Sin is choosing our own selfish way over God’s way. Sin is evil. [/SIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]Whether we like it or not, we have all been guilty of sinning. [/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]Perhaps we lied…or we felt pride…or we said something cruel to someone…or we committed all kinds of immoral acts… Whatever the case, we have all sinned.[/SIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]“For all have sinned; all fall short of God’s glorious standard.” - Romans 3:23[/SIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]Tragically, sin creates a complete, impenetrable barrier between us and God. That barrier goes up when we first sin![/SIZE][/FONT]

• [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]Sin creates a spiritual barrier: we can no longer have a relationship with God.[/SIZE][/FONT]
• [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]Sin creates a physical barrier: we can no longer be in God’s presence.[/SIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]Why does sin create a barrier? Frankly, our sin is repulsive to God. That's easy to understand. It's easy for us to see how lies, arrogance, selfishness, deceit, murder, rape, adultery, pedophilia, theft and hypocrisy are nauseating. Imagine how much more nauseating it must be for an all-loving and all-knowing God! [/SIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]Not only is sin disgusting to God, it's also a violation of His law. The penalty for breaking that law is separation from Him--death. If he let our sin go unpunished, he would no longer be fair.[/SIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]“But your iniquities have separated you from your God; your sins have hidden His face from you, so that He will not Hear.” - Isaiah 59:2[/SIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]“For the wages of sin is death…” - Romans 6:23a[/SIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]There’s absolutely nothing that we can do to break down the barrier between us and God. A lot of religions teach other paths to God, but sadly all those paths lead to death. [/SIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]One popular notion is that good deeds and being a good person will get you to Heaven. The truth is that even if we could do millions of “good deeds,” they still wouldn't make even one sin we've committed any less disgusting to God. No amount of good deeds will ever be enough to pay the fine associated with breaking the law. [/SIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]Don’t despair! The story didn’t end there. Here comes the Good News! [/SIZE][/FONT]

 

[Ephesians4]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]The Good News! Our Second Chance [/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]Gracious and loving, God could not tolerate this as the “final verdict” for the humans He created. As it stood, all humans were condemned to die and spend eternity apart from Him. God created the law of the Old Testament (which included the 10 Commandments) and gave it to his chosen people, the Jews. Although the law showed humans the standard of perfection, it also revealed how sinful they truly were. The law did not save humans from the penalty of their sins; it convicted them. [/SIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]Even though humans had rebelled against God, He created a solution. As a God of justice, He could not remove the penalty for sin. What He could do is shift the penalty to someone else…someone completely blameless and without sin whose death would give humans renewed hope. [/SIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]Who would be spotless and blameless enough to bear that penalty for everyone else? As we’ve already said, every human has sinned. [/SIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]The only solution was for God the Father to make the ultimate sacrifice: to send His only Son from Heaven to the earth–in the form of a human. Only He could live the sinless life that was required to save us from our sins. Only He could break down the barrier so we could live eternally with God in Heaven and be his children. Only He could be our mediator to God the Father. Only He could remove the “conviction” of the Old Testament law. Only His death could serve as the single sacrifice that would cover all our sins, once and for all. [/SIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]The Son of God Dies for Our Sins [/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]The Son of God came to earth as Jesus of Nazareth, whose arrival as the coming Messiah had been predicted for years in ancient Jewish texts. [/SIZE][/FONT]

[SIZE=-1][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Born to a young virgin Jewish woman named Mary in a small town called Bethlehem and conceived by the Holy Spirit, Jesus lived during the time of the ancient Romans (approximately 3 BC to AD 30). As a young child, He amazed those in the Temple with His understanding of God’s holy scripture. As adult, Jesus was baptized at which point the Holy Spirit descended on Him. [/FONT][/SIZE]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]Then, Jesus began his official ministry. He was tempted for 40 days and nights in the desert by satan, but He never sinned. He spent His ministry healing the sick, performing miracles, casting out evil spirits (demons) and telling everyone how to have a relationship with God and live according to His will. He selected 12 disciples (also called apostles) to be His helpers and tell others about Him. [/SIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]Because the religious leaders of the time were so threatened by His views, He was tortured and then sentenced to death by crucifixion by the Roman leader, Pontius Pilate. Jesus was crucified along with two other prisoners. [/SIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]But His death was not the end; it was all part of God’s master plan! By dying, Jesus paid the penalty for our sins–once and for all! He took the punishment that was rightfully ours! [/SIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]Then, after three days of being buried in the grave and descending to hell, Jesus conquered death and came back to life (resurrection), so that all who believed in Him would no longer be eternally separated from God but rather have eternal life with God after death! Jesus appeared to many people before He ascended to Heaven forty days after His resurrection. [/SIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]Today Jesus sits at the right hand of God the Father Almighty. [/SIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]After Jesus left earth, he sent the Holy Spirit to indwell and guide all who follow Him.[/SIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]“For Christ died for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God.” - I Peter 3:18[/SIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]“But God demonstrates His own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.” - Romans 5:8 [/SIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]“For God so loved the world that He gave His One and Only Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life.” - John 3:16[/SIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]One day, Jesus will return to earth. He will judge everyone who is living and everyone who is dead (who will be brought back to life). We will all see Him face-to-face. Then, everyone will bow and confess that Jesus Christ is Lord (Christ means Messiah). [/SIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]Those who had believed in Him have their names written in the Book of Life. These people are collectively called, “The Church.” They will spend eternity with God the Father and Jesus in Heaven. Metaphorically speaking, Jesus is the bridegroom and the Church is His bride. At this point, they will be united. [/SIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]Those who do not have their names written in the Book of Life will be judged for their sins and will be cast into the lake of fire. [/SIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]"And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire." - Revelation 20:15 [/SIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]Belief in Jesus: Our Only Hope [/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]Jesus is our only hope for forgiveness and eternal life. He is the only one worthy and able to break down the barrier between us and God so that we can become God’s children. For that reason, there is only one way to God–through Jesus Christ. No other religion, no other person and no other 'god' leads to a restored relationship with the One True God nor will they give you eternal life.[/SIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]Jesus said, “I am the way, the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.” - John 14:6[/SIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]“For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.” - I Timothy 2:5[/SIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]“He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life. I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life.” - I John 5:12-13[/SIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]“We have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ.” - Romans 5:1[/SIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]The Free Gift of Salvation: It’s Yours if You Accept [/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]So, since Jesus died on the cross for our sins, we all automatically have eternal life with Him, right? [/SIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]No. This gift of forgiveness and everlasting life isn't thrust upon us against our will. It is a free gift, in that we can do nothing to earn it. It has been given to each of us by the grace of God. But we must consciously and willingly accept it by faith. [/SIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]Maybe you think that you need to clean up your life–start “living right”–before God will accept you. You can’t clean up your life without God! Simply come to Him as you are. [/SIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]Maybe you think you’ve been too bad and done too much wrong to be accepted by God. No one has sinned so much that they cannot be saved through Jesus’ sacrifice for their sins and God's grace and forgiveness. God knows every single sin you’ve ever committed, and yet He sent Jesus to die for each one of them–just for you. When we accept Jesus’ sacrifice for us, our spirits our reborn, we’re a new creation and we’re freed from the death sentence of sin! Only then can we be called sons and daughters of God. Only then can God’s Holy Spirit live within us and guide our paths. Only then can He help us grow spiritually and become more like Jesus. [/SIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]“For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.” - Romans 6:23[/SIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]“For it is by grace you have been saved–and not from yourselves, it is the gift of God–not by works, so that no one can boast.” - Ephesians 2:8-9 [/SIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]“Yet to all who receive Him, to those who believed in His name, He gave the right to become children of God.” - John 1:12[/SIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]Accepting the Gift [/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]Do you want to have a restored relationship with God? Do you want to be free from the penalty of your sins? God is waiting for you. He is calling out to you today.[/SIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]“Here I am! I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in and eat with him, and he with Me.” - Revelation 3:20 [/SIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]“If you confess with your mouth, ‘Jesus is Lord,’ and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.” - Romans 10:9 [/SIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]“Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.” - Romans 10:13[/SIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]To accept this free gift, you must pray to God, confessing out loud that Jesus is Lord, and believe that God raised Him from the dead. Here are my suggestions on how to do this in prayer to God (with your eyes open or shut!):[/SIZE][/FONT]

• [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]Declare that Jesus is your Lord and that you vow to follow Him no matter what–through the hard times and easy times.[/SIZE][/FONT]
• [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]Declare to God that you will put Him at the center of your life and that He will be your #1 priority from now on. [/SIZE][/FONT]
• [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]Admit to God that you are a sinner and confess your sins (as many as you can remember). [/SIZE][/FONT]
• [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]Confess to God that you believe that Jesus suffered and died to take the penalty of your sins. Call upon God to save you and forgive your sins. Ask God to help you turn away from your sins (repent) and obey Him.[/SIZE][/FONT]
• [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]Through prayer, ask the God’s Holy Spirit to live in you, to teach you God’s truth, to teach you to obey God, to show you how to love and serve God, to show you how to love others and to guide your paths forever.[/SIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]What next? Click here for New Christian Help. [/SIZE][/FONT]

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I hope this was helpful for you and others. I know it's long, but I just want to make sure all of this is clear.

 

[CantThinkofaUserName]

Thanks you very much for the time and effort you put into providing that information for me, Ephesians4, I really appreciate it.

The thing is, all it's really doing is describing Christianity - not really saying anything that would push me back in my seat thinking, "Hey, Christianity IS 'the way'", you know? And please don't get me wrong, I'm not expecting a full-blown miracle (wouldn't mind if it happened (lol), but not expecting it), I'm just dying to hear some great points to help me understand why Christianity and not anything else.

I was a Christian until I was about 24 years old, so I know a tiny bit about Christianity and have also read small portions of the bible - and it's just going over things I've pretty much either heard or read before - not explaining why Christianity is the "real deal".

Like this:

“For the wages of sin is death…” - Romans 6:23a

"There’s absolutely nothing that we can do to break down the barrier between us and God. A lot of religions teach other paths to God, but sadly all those paths lead to death."

No offense, but it's just the same ol', "We're right and you're wrong" type of comments you hear from every other religion out there - so I don't know.

On a side note, there's a book that was recently published entitled: "Eat, Pray, Love" - by Elizabeth Gilbert. Wouldn't it be funny if those were the (3) essential rules of life? Maybe that's not the case, but some of the horror stories I've heard in certain religious books don't sound like they were written by an all-loving God, but more-so from humans with an agenda - so again, I don't know.

 

[CantThinkofaUserName]

Does it say that Jesus studied?

I'm not sure, one of my questions was to figure out whether He did or didn't. I've heard many people say that He had studied, including one of the posters in this thread:

Of course the prophets had to study the Old Law. However, it is written that they had a measure of God's Spirit (power) indwelling them.

Jesus studied the Old Law and some also believe (me as well) that He studied Buddhist teachings while in an Ebionite sect. However, it is written that He also had the Spirit unlimited as well. (Jn.3:34)

There are also a ton of online sources that says He did, as well - just wanted to know if there were any scriptures in the bible to either confirm or deny this.

 

[CantThinkofaUserName]

-Sorry, double post.-

 

[Ephesians4]

Thanks you very much for the time and effort you put into providing that information for me, Ephesians4, I really appreciate it.

The thing is, all it's really doing is describing Christianity - not really saying anything that would push me back in my seat thinking, "Hey, Christianity IS 'the way'", you know? And please don't get me wrong, I'm not expecting a full-blown miracle (wouldn't mind if it happened (lol), but not expecting it), I'm just dying to hear some great points to help me understand why Christianity and not anything else.

I was a Christian until I was about 24 years old, so I know a tiny bit about Christianity and have also read small portions of the bible - and it's just going over things I've pretty much either heard or read before - not explaining why Christianity is the "real deal".

Like this:

“For the wages of sin is death…” - Romans 6:23a

"There’s absolutely nothing that we can do to break down the barrier between us and God. A lot of religions teach other paths to God, but sadly all those paths lead to death."

No offense, but it's just the same ol', "We're right and you're wrong" type of comments you hear from every other religion out there - so I don't know.

On a side note, there's a book that was recently published entitled: "Eat, Pray, Love" - by Elizabeth Gilbert. Wouldn't it be funny if those were the (3) essential rules of life? Maybe that's not the case, but some of the horror stories I've heard in certain religious books don't sound like they were written by an all-loving God, but more-so from humans with an agenda - so again, I don't know.

Well, I gave you all that background because I couldn't assume that you knew the core concepts behind Christianity. Many people in Foru.ms claim to, but really haven't heard the full Gospel of Jesus.

To briefly address one point you raise, those other paths do lead to death because they do nothing to eliminate the penalty of our sins. True Christianity is different from all other religions in that it is the only faith that answers the sin problem. Of course, you already know that Christianity is an all-or-nothing religion. I am not going to candy-coat it and tell you anything else because Jesus is extremely clear that He is the only way to a restored relationship with God.

Now, to better tackle the question "Why Christianity?", because I think that's the real core of what you're looking for based on all your posts, here are more apologetics-oriented articles from the web that may help. They're quite lengthy but raise some interesting points.

http://www.probe.org/reasons-to-believe/reasons-to-believe/how-i-know-christianity-is-true.html

http://www.christianapologetic.org/table_contents.htm (I think you will find this one very interesting based on your previous experience with Christianity; esp. Chapter 6)

http://www.probe.org/reasons-to-believe/a-not-so-brief-defense-of-christianity.html

http://www.probe.org/reasons-to-believe/reasons-to-believe/the-case-for-christ.html

http://www.probe.org/reasons-to-believe/ancient-evidence-for-jesus-from-non-christian-sources.html

http://www.apologetics.org/books/historicity.html

I would also suggest Lee Strobel's two books, A Case for Christ and A Case for Faith (former atheist).

(I'd be happy to find more if you or others need them.)

Before reading these, I would suggest praying to simply asking God to show you the truth. Something like:

Father in Heaven, I don't know which religion is true. But, I want to know the truth. Please reveal Your truth to me and clear away all confusion. In Jesus' name I'm asking this, Amen.




If you're looking for a sign or lightning bolt from Heaven, I would be cautious about that. Jesus said,

Matthew 12:38-41: Then certain of the scribes and Pharisees answered, "Teacher, we want to see a sign from you." But he answered them, "An evil and adulterous generation seeks after a sign, but no sign will be given it but the sign of Jonah the prophet.For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the whale, so will the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.The men of Nineveh will stand up in the judgment with this generation, and will condemn it, for they repented at the preaching of Jonah; and behold, someone greater than Jonah is here.​

In the end, you must ask yourself what would it take for you to believe. Not choosing any religion is a choice in and of itself. Is that really the choice you want to make? I don't think so, and that's why I applaud you for seriously investigating the matter to make the right choice.

May God guide you on your journey to the Truth!


e4

 

[Ephesians4]

I'm not sure, one of my questions was to figure out whether He did or didn't. I've heard many people say that He had studied, including one of the posters in this thread:



There are also a ton of online sources that says He did, as well - just wanted to know if there were any scriptures in the bible to either confirm or deny this.

I see no evidence of this in the Bible regardless of what some posters are saying.

I would suggest downloading good, free Bible software from http://www.e-sword.net You can easily search for keywords in the software (and do many other things). From the site, you can download free copies of commentaries, etc.

Better to search yourself than rely on second-hand speculation and things that you've randomly seen on the web.

 

[CantThinkofaUserName]

To briefly address one point you raise, those other paths do lead to death because they do nothing to eliminate the penalty of our sins. True Christianity is different from all other religions in that it is the only faith that answers the sin problem.

Okay, so if that really is the case, did all the people who lived before Christ go to hell when they died? If Christ is truly the "only way", where did the people who died before Him go?

Now, to better tackle the question "Why Christianity?", because I think that's the real core of what you're looking for based on all your posts, here are more apologetics-oriented articles from the web that may help. They're quite lengthy but raise some interesting points.

Thanks a lot, I'll make sure to go over every link you posted - hopefully there's something there that can shed a bit of light as to who God really is.

I would also suggest Lee Strobel's two books, A Case for Christ and A Case for Faith (former atheist).

I actually got half way through "A Case for Christ" and stopped (lol) - I'll give it another go someday, for sure.

(I'd be happy to find more if you or others need them.)

Thanks!

Before reading these, I would suggest praying to simply asking God to show you the truth. Something like:

Father in Heaven, I don't know which religion is true. But, I want to know the truth. Please reveal Your truth to me and clear away all confusion. In Jesus' name I'm asking this, Amen.

I ask God everyday to guide me towards the "truth". I don't necessarily pray to Jesus, seeing as how I'm not a Christian, but I do ask.

If you're looking for a sign or lightning bolt from Heaven, I would be cautious about that. Jesus said...

The thing is, I'm interested in Christianity but am not currently a Christian - I'm an Agnostic. And I don't want to follow any religion until my heart knows it's "the one".

In the end, you must ask yourself what would it take for you to believe.

I really don't know whether it's right or wrong to think this way, but I'm hoping that God will give me a kind of confirmation that it seems He gives others - a kind of "I KNOW" for a FACT that He's there type of feeling.

 

[CantThinkofaUserName]

I would suggest downloading good, free Bible software from http://www.e-sword.net You can easily search for keywords in the software (and do many other things). From the site, you can download free copies of commentaries, etc.

Cool, thanks!

I usually use Biblegateway.com to search for keywords - any major difference (that you know of) between the programs and the site (assuming you've visited before)?

 

[tapero]

Okay, so if that really is the case, did all the people who lived before Christ go to hell when they died? If Christ is truly the "only way", where did the people who died before Him go?



Thanks a lot, I'll make sure to go over every link you posted - hopefully there's something there that can shed a bit of light as to who God really is.



I actually got half way through "A Case for Christ" and stopped (lol) - I'll give it another go someday, for sure.



Thanks!



I ask God everyday to guide me towards the "truth". I don't necessarily pray to Jesus, seeing as how I'm not a Christian, but I do ask.



The thing is, I'm interested in Christianity but am not currently a Christian - I'm an Agnostic. And I don't want to follow any religion until my heart knows it's "the one".



I really don't know whether it's right or wrong to think this way, but I'm hoping that God will give me a kind of confirmation that it seems He gives others - a kind of "I KNOW" for a FACT that He's there type of feeling.

Hi, I don't know that you'll get a feeling at all, but you may know that you have come to the truth, as when I came, the first or 2nd thought came to me, was that this is the truth and I'd always known it but somehow supressed it (perhaps as a child, which I wouldn't recall.) Later, much, I read Romans 1 and indeed we are said to have suppressed the truth.

The below is not my own study, but from a good source here are excerpts:

We have three places where the Bible mentions paradise. The first one relates what Christ said to the thief on the cross who believed. Lk 23:43 And Jesus said to him, “Assuredly, I say to you, today you will be with Me in Paradise.” Before Christ died for our sins, the believers who had died went to a good part of what is called [Hebrew] Sheol, in the O. T. and [Greek] Hades in the N. T. I believe the good part was called paradise; and that is where Christ and the thief went.

We have further evidence from Scripture that Christ visited two places that we can call Sheol/Hell/Hades. The most important one from our viewpoint is found in Eph 4:8-10: Therefore He says: “When He ascended on high, He led captivity captive, and gave gifts to men.” 9 Now this, “He ascended” - what does it mean but that He also first descended into the lower parts of the earth? 10 He who descended is also the One who ascended far above all the heavens, that He might fill all things.

From this passage, we see that Christ first descended into the lower parts of the earth to take all the believers to heaven since their sins had been paid for by Christ’s death on the cross. This is when Paradise was transferred to heaven.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
okay, now you may know this story but I'll post it anyway, and not that this is also about Sheol described above:

There was a rich man who was dressed in purple and fine linen and lived in luxury every day. 20At his gate was laid a beggar named Lazarus, covered with sores 21and longing to eat what fell from the rich man's table. Even the dogs came and licked his sores.

22"The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham's side. The rich man also died and was buried. 23In hell,[c] where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side. 24So he called to him, 'Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.'
25"But Abraham replied, 'Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things, but now he is comforted here and you are in agony. 26And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been fixed, so that those who want to go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us.'
27"He answered, 'Then I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my father's house, 28for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.'
29"Abraham replied, 'They have Moses and the Prophets; let them listen to them.'
30" 'No, father Abraham,' he said, 'but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent.' 31"He said to him, 'If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.' "

.

Hope this helps some.

God bless,
tapero

 

[Adstar]

I appreciate the response, thanks!

Well, I've got to commend you if you've known that and not lost an ounce of faith. I may be a simpleton, because it truly frightens me to believe in something with the very core of my being, when there are things that, as you say, we possibly cannot add up.

It seems that making a decision is what is frightening you. Fear of making the wrong decision. But it seems to me that if you are seeking the will of God (and you are) that you will come to hear the Will of God eventually.

Should you not have greater fear of rejecting the Will of God when it is offered to you to accept?

I think a lot of Agnostics have this false sense of security that if they remain non committal for their entire lives then they can front up to God in the end and say " Well God my excuse is i never had enough evidence to accept your will" What will the agnostic say when God replies I gave you my Will there and you never accepted it?

I'm an Agnostic, and have been questioning whether Christianity is the "real deal" for quite some time now, and to be completely honest, thinking that "our mind can't comprehend"wasn't the "Son" of God. Simple, maybe - but that's what I take from it. How do we know that Jesus wasn't, hands-down, thee most intellignet human being ever known to man? Please tell me how anyone can be ceratin that Jesus didn't

makes me assume that maybe Jesus study Kaballah, or Buhdism, or spent 12 years studying Tapas in India?

What is to say that Jesus was no picked up by Aliens and taken to Orion’s belt to study under Zayfoid Betelgeuse the renound Antarian scollar? Well it could have happened right?

I mean, you can always say that because it isn't in the bible, that it may not be important for you to know, and I would have to respect that, but that surely does not in any way indicate to me that any of the above information is historically untrue. Wouldn't you agree? If not, please explain.

I can make up more wild fantasies about where Jesus might have travelled to and what Jesus might have done. But if you are serious about the 12 years in India and also all the other places he would have to go to study all the stuff you mentioned He would have probably started his ministry in Israel when He was 98 years old rather than 30 years old.

Let's say there was a religion out there, that was a carbon-copy of Christianity; all that was ever asked of them was to "love, pray, and worship the 'trinity'". The twist here, is that Jesus is not the "Son", they've replaced the "Son" with an idol. They raise their kids to believe in this idol from day one, and tell them that they simply need to follow "him" because it is the "right thing to do". He has a "full connection" with the "most high", and when asked "why then does he not seem to know 'all' as does 'the most high'", they're told to "just believe" and that "you are unable to understand it", and that if you "don't believe in him", that you will "never see the kingdom".

This religion would not then be a carbon copy of Christianity would it. If it replaced the Son with an idol it would cease from being a carbon copy.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

[Adstar]

Okay, so if that really is the case, did all the people who lived before Christ go to hell when they died? If Christ is truly the "only way", where did the people who died before Him go?

May i ask why you need to know? Does this have any bearing on your decision to accept or reject the Will of God?
This leads me to another question.

Will you accept only the god revealed to you that conforms to your judgement as to what god should be and do?

And in doing this do you make yourself God?

Can you place your eternity in your own hands? Do you think your resioning is perfect enough to place your trust in yourself over such an important matter? I tell you i would be in great fear if i placed my trust in my own judgement to that extent.

Ok to the question you asked here, i will post some scripture and maybe the Holy Spirit will reveal it's meaning to you.

1 Peter 3
18 For Christ also suffered once for sins, the just for the unjust, that He might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive by the Spirit, 19 by whom also He went and preached to the spirits in prison, 20 who formerly were disobedient, when once the Divine longsuffering waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight souls, were saved through water.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

[tapero]

Cool, thanks!

I usually use Biblegateway.com to search for keywords - any major difference (that you know of) between the programs and the site (assuming you've visited before)?

Hi, just using this post to make a reply.

It is a very good thing to ask any and all questions you have.

It's how we grow.

Many don't really quite know what it is that is a stumbling block to them, but thru asking questions they get more to the source.

We all come to Christ differently, some need much more than others, some need little to nothing but to hear the gospel.

Some just need to be asked two questions, such as what occured to me.

So we all come differently and it's okay.

My questions came more after I started reading the bible, and hehe had some 3 ladies to call and who helped me so much. Was just talking to one of those friends last night, and saying, wow, what about all those who don't have people to reach out to, as I did.

So, God bless you hon and it is your questions to us that also help us to grow as we need to know ourselves, why we believe what we believe and research the scripture and this is a very good thing.

So God bless,
tapero