Enemies in the forum....

[sentipente]

Somebody open the door. A stampede is on.

 

[NightEternal]

Mass exodus extraordinaire.

 

[tall73]

Don't take this the wrong way folks, but there was a time with very little fighting for several months after the outbreak that this 2005 post was part of. While it may seem that the fighting has been constant this way it has not. Therefore it need not continue now.

Strangely enough, the time of peace coincided with a period of time in which the reports for the Adventist section were not worked, and official mod actions were not forthcoming.

Perhaps when people realized that baiting would do nothing to get rid of the one they wanted gone, and reporting would just be ignored they had to regulate themselves.

 

[sentipente]

Perhaps when people realized that baiting would do nothing to get rid of the one they wanted gone, and reporting would just be ignored they had to regulate themselves.

An interesting observation. They could no longer depend on the lack of knowledge of the moderators. Humans are such manipulative creatures.

 

[awesumtenor]

I hope this is not a violation of rules, but the structure itself of the forum seems to encourage people to claim to be what they are not just so they have the right to debate.

Looking back at Tall's comment, it seems he missed the other and far more frequently occurring side of this coin... where the structure of the forum seems to encourage people to label others in order to avoid answering questions or discussing honest inquiries...but consider this from R&H, Dec 20, 1892:

There is no excuse for any one in taking the position that there is no more truth to be revealed, and that all our expositions of Scripture are without an error. The fact that certain doctrines have been held as truth for many years by our people, is not a proof that our ideas are infallible. Age will not make error into truth, and truth can afford to be fair. No true doctrine will lose anything by close investigation. We are living in perilous times, and it does not become us to accept everything claimed to be truth without examining it thoroughly; neither can we afford to reject anything that bears the fruits of the Spirit of God; but we should be teachable, meek and lowly of heart. There are those who oppose everything that is not in accordance with their own ideas, and by so doing they endanger their eternal interest as verily as did the Jewish nation in their rejection of Christ. The Lord designs that our opinions shall be put to the test, that we may see the necessity of closely examining the living oracles to see whether or not we are in the faith. Many who claim to believe the truth have settled down at their ease, saying, "I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing." But Jesus says to these self-complacent ones, Thou "knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked." Let us individually inquire, Do these words describe my case? If so, the True Witness counsels us, saying, "Buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eye-salve, that thou mayest see." {RH, December 20, 1892 par. 1}

From the description of the Laodiceans, it is evident that many were deceived in their estimate of their spiritual condition. They regarded themselves as rich, as possessing all the knowledge and grace that was needed; but yet they lacked the gold of faith and love, the white raiment of Christ's righteousness. They were destitute and poverty-stricken, walking in sparks of their own kindling, and preparing to lie down in sorrow. Jesus says to them, "I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love. Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works [when the glow of the love of God was upon you]; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent." This warning would not be given if there were no danger of failure on the part of those who profess to be the children of God. {RH, December 20, 1892 par. 2}

In unmistakable language our position is presented before us. Apart from Christ we have no merit, no righteousness. Our sinfulness, our weakness, our human imperfections make it impossible that we should appear before God, unless we are clothed in Christ's spotless righteousness. We are to be found in him, not having our own righteousness, but the righteousness which is through Christ. {RH, December 20, 1892 par. 3}

But there is hope for every one; for "God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." If the love of God is not appreciated, and does not become an abiding principle in the hard heart to soften and subdue the soul, we are utterly lost. The Lord has no reserve power with which to influence man. He can give no greater manifestation of his love than that which he has given. Heaven's richest gift has been freely offered for your acceptance. If the exhibition of the love of Jesus does not melt and subdue your heart, by what means can you be reached? Has the love of Christ failed to bring forth an earnest response of love and gratitude? Then let it not remain in this condition of hardness another day. Open your heart, and receive Christ, the best gift of heaven. Let not cruel unbelief lead you to refuse the heaven-sent gift. Let not Christ say of you, "Ye will not come unto me that ye might have life." {RH, December 20, 1892 par. 4}

The heart of Christ is constantly drawn out in sympathy toward fallen man. While upon earth, his only mission was to save sinners. He had a deep abhorrence of sin, while exercising the tenderest compassion toward the sinner. He was grieved and wounded at heart because men failed to value and accept his love. The Majesty of heaven veiled his divinity in humanity, and passed from place to place through towns and cities, teaching the truth and working miracles, and though multitudes flocked to hear him, few were in sympathy with the lessons of truth he presented, which alone could save the soul. {RH, December 20, 1892 par. 5}

How few have any conception of the anguish which rent the heart of the Son of God during his thirty years of life upon earth. The path from the manger to Calvary was shadowed by sorrow and grief. He was the man of sorrows, and endured such heartache as no human language can portray. He could have said in truth, "Behold and see if there be any sorrow like unto my sorrow." His suffering was the deepest anguish of the soul; and what man could have sympathy with the soul anguish of the Son of the infinite God? Hating sin with a perfect hatred, he yet gathered to his soul the sins of the whole world, as he trod the path to Calvary, suffering the penalty of the transgressor. Guiltless, he bore the punishment of the guilty; innocent, yet offering himself to bear the penalty of the transgression of the law of God. The punishment of the sins of every soul was borne by the Son of the infinite God. The guilt of every sin pressed its weight upon the divine soul of the world's Redeemer. He who knew no sin became sin for us, that we might be made the righteousness of God in him. In assuming the nature of man, he placed himself where he was wounded for our transgressions, bruised for our iniquities, that by his stripes we might be healed. {RH, December 20, 1892 par. 6}

In his humanity Christ was tried with as much greater temptation, with as much more persevering energy than man is tried by the evil one, as his nature was greater than man's. This is a deep mysterious truth, that Christ is bound to humanity by the most sensitive sympathies. The evil works, the evil thoughts, the evil words of every son and daughter of Adam press upon his divine soul. The sins of men called for retribution upon himself; for he had become man's substitute, and took upon him the sins of the world. He bore the sins of every sinner; for all transgressions were imputed unto him, though "he did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth." Though the guilt of sin was not his, his Spirit was torn and bruised by the transgressions of men. {RH, December 20, 1892 par. 7}

"How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation?" It is at the peril of our souls that we neglect the prescribed conditions under which we are called to work out our own salvation. It is only through Christ, who was made sin for us, that we can work out our own salvation; for it is God that worketh in us both to will and to do of his own good pleasure. We are to co-operate heartily with God, by faith laying hold of the righteousness of Christ, which alone can save. The only way by which we may be saved is by becoming workers together with God. It is through the co-operation of man with God that the believer may come off victorious. We shall not be found guiltless if we are content to float along in the current of the world, submitting the question of our soul's salvation to those who teach the traditions of men and rely upon supposed evidences. Every soul is to put himself to the task of searching out the truth as it is in Jesus, to know it for himself by the study of the sure word of God. We are not to ask, What is the popular opinion? What saith brother A. or brother B. or any other man? What saith the fathers? But what saith the Lord our God in regard to the saving of the soul? And when we have found what saith the Scriptures, let us act upon the written word; for it is perilous to sit in judgment on the words of inspiration. That which has been written is for our instruction, admonition, and comfort.

Let he who hath an ear hear...

In His service,
Mr. J

 

[sentipente]

This sentence from the first paragraph, "The fact that certain doctrines have been held as truth for many years by our people, is not a proof that our ideas are infallible" reminds me of all the talk we have had here about pillars. It may help to add that this article from the RH was written by E.G. White under the title, "Christ our Hope."

 

[StormyOne]

This statement:

There is no excuse for any one in taking the position that there is no more truth to be revealed, and that all our expositions of Scripture are without an error. The fact that certain doctrines have been held as truth for many years by our people, is not a proof that our ideas are infallible. Age will not make error into truth, and truth can afford to be fair.

should keep us studying everything we think we believe.... I personally don't think we can ever get to the point where we can say, "we have all the truth" not ever...

 

[moicherie]

This statement: should keep us studying everything we think we believe.... I personally don't think we can ever get to the point where we can say, "we have all the truth" not ever...

'we have the truth' is a phrase we should not use in my opinion. Considering Jesus is The Truth, we do not have a monopoly on Him or a reciept from gospel.towers@heaven.divinenet
I like to believe I am following The Truth the image for me its lest stagnant.

 

[HoneyDew]

My problem goes all the way back to the Genesis story. Or both versions. And yes, I know that if we attempt in any way to discuss the disparities, the "solid rock" on which our dogma stands might be exposed as sifting sands -- so we don't dare talk about it.

 

[PeacefulSDA]

First, I must say "Thank You" to Mr. J for this EGW statement. It covers so many important truths that we need to grasp!

This sentence from the first paragraph, "The fact that certain doctrines have been held as truth for many years by our people, is not a proof that our ideas are infallible" reminds me of all the talk we have had here about pillars. It may help to add that this article from the RH was written by E.G. White under the title, "Christ our Hope."

This bolded sentence reminds me that we "aren't there yet", both in our personal spiritual journeys as well as our combined corporate one. We need the continued focus of study in both not to rest on our supposed laurels and believe that we have arrived.

Peaceful

 

[sentipente]

The irony is that if EGW was carefully read most of the things people do, using her writings for suppport, would never be done. Like Paul, she matured in her understanding of Christ and the Gospel.

 

[PeacefulSDA]

The irony is that if EGW was carefully read most of the things people do, using her writings for suppport, would never be done. Like Paul, she matured in her understanding of Christ and the Gospel.

This is something I had not heard until my pastor pointed it out to in May! EGW even refers to it in her later writings. It is something that would be wise make all SDAs aware of, IMO

 

[NightEternal]

Great thoughts here.

I actually dealt with this issue in the Denominational Specific forum:

http://www.christianforums.com/t5734938-is-the-sda-church-in-conflict-with-the-ideasl-of-her-own-pioneers.html

I posted it there rather than here, because even its presence on this board would cause outrage and attacks on my person. Just linking to it brought the wrath of Cain down on me a few days ago, and I was labeled as 'attacking' the church.

I don't care. This needs to be addressed and I am through being cowed by those who wish to hide from the real issues facing us.

Once the forum new system is in place, we will be able to enage more of these sorts of 'swept under the rug' issues.

 

[NightEternal]

'we have the truth' is a phrase we should not use in my opinion. Considering Jesus is The Truth, we do not have a monopoly on Him or a reciept from gospel.towers@heaven.divine.net

Excellent!

 

[NightEternal]

This bolded sentence reminds me that we "aren't there yet", both in our personal spiritual journeys as well as our combined corporate one. We need the continued focus of study in both not to rest on our supposed laurels and believe that we have arrived.

More excellence!

 

[NightEternal]

I personally don't think we can ever get to the point where we can say, "we have all the truth" not ever...

Yet even more excellence!

 

[sentipente]

We ran into problems when we ceased being an organism and became an organization. When we stopped seeking direction and began seeking directives.

 

[NightEternal]

Good point Senti.

The way I see it, this 'we have the truth, all of the truth and nothing but the truth' mindset will never be fully eradicated from Adventism. There will always be those who think we have 'arrived' and that's the end of the matter. High-profile leaders such as Doug Batchelor will only re-inforce and preserve this stubborn mindset in cement with such books as Advindication and seminars such as Here We Stand.

More and more I have decided the best thing is to just go on with our own personal spiritual journeys, where a dynamic, ever-changing, ever-progressing faith is embraced, free from the constraints of those who would bottle and seal SDA doctrine, keeping it preserved in formaldehyde since the 1800's.

 

[sentipente]

In a strange way I can understand their mindset, though I don't excuse it. It is practically impossible to manage a movement that is not beholden to a male or female vertebrate and you lose authority pretty quickly you are not willing to say "This is the law." We have come to the point in our existence when the focus is on preserving Adventism rather than on revealing the kingdom of heaven. They are doing everything they should do to preserve Adventism. For that I cannot fault them.

 

[PeacefulSDA]

We ran into problems when we ceased being an organism and became an organization. When we stopped seeking direction and began seeking directives.

Senti,

Nice summary! May I quote you on this?

That organism, the Body of Christ, will only be a vital, growing force when we stop worshipping the bronze serpent and turn our worship instead towards the true Power.

Peaceful