end time views

[Imblessed]

I've been looking into the various end time views lately and I'm wondering if it's true that the reformed are basically split between amil and post-mil. (I've read this in a couple of different places)

So I decided to do this poll to satify my curiosity......

I don't want this to turn into an argument about who's right or wrong so I would respectfully ask you not to comment on others beliefs, but I would appreciate a post as to why you believe the way you do.

Thanks to everyone participating in this poll.


1) Amillenialism

2) Postmillenialism

3) Historic Premillenialism

4) Dispensational Premillenialism

 

[Ebb]

As far as the millennial perspective, I lean mostly amillennial, with some pre-mill tendencies.

Another way to divide end-times views up is according to the perspectives below. I would be described (as defined below) as Historicist and Biblical Covenant.

http://www.bibleonly.org/proph/schools.html

• The Historical/Critical school believes that prophecies such as Daniel are not really prophecy, having been written at a time later than stated in the text, and were designed to act as encouragement to Israel rather than being true prophecy.
  
• The Dispensationalist/Futurist school believes that God has operated under different rules in different "dispensations". The prophecies are to be interpreted exactly as written, without any continuity of Israel throughout redemptive history. They also believe that the seventieth week of Dan 9:24 has not happened, and will be in the future. This leads to predictions such as the restitution of literal Israel, with mass conversion of Jews, an antichrist who forms a one-world government, peace treaties with the Jews, and a physical battle of Armageddon.
  
• The Full Preterist school believes that all prophecy has been fulfilled. The book of Revelation was written about AD60, rather than AD94 as many believe. Jesus came the second time in AD70 at the destruction of Jerusalem, which was the "midst" of the 70th week of Daniel 9:24-27. This coming was a spiritual rather than a physical event. In order to allow this interpretation, they maintain that the entire NT after the gospels is to be interpreted spiritually rather than physically.
  
• The Historicist school believes that prophecy has been in large measure fulfilled through history, but that the second coming and events surrounding it have not yet happened. The physical promises to physical Israel became spiritual promises to spiritual Israel when the Jews rejected Christ. Rather than declare a priori that all texts should be read physically or that all texts should be read spiritually, historicists believe that the natural reading of texts should have the greatest weight, but that such a reading needs to take into account the linguistic and cultic elements of the day of the writer, as well as the conditionality of prophecy enunciated in Jeremiah 18:5-10.
  
• The Eclectic school recognizes that prophecy is directing us toward the ultimate victory of God over evil, with the eventual establishment of God's eternal kingdom. The Old Testament sources of various passages are carefully identified in Revelation, but with symbolic rather than literal meanings attached to virtually all of the prophecies.
  
• The Biblical Covenant school sees redemptive history as moving toward the goal of a perfect covenant relationship between God and his people. Prophecies primarily speak of the future in relationship to this covenant. The symbols of prophecy are generally to be interpreted as covenant language, and will result in a mix of symbolic and literal intent.

 

[Cajun Huguenot]

I'm said I was postmill, but I could pass for a VERY optimistic Amill.

Kenith

 

[CalvinOwen]

PostMill because of verses like these:

LUK 13:18 ¶ So He was saying, "What is the kingdom of God like, and to what shall I compare it?
LUK 13:19 "It is like a mustard seed, which a man took and threw into his own garden; and it grew and became a tree, and the birds of the air nested in its branches."

LUK 13:20 ¶ And again He said, "To what shall I compare the kingdom of God?
LUK 13:21 "It is like leaven, which a woman took and hid in three pecks of flour until it was all leavened."

DAN 2:35 "Then the iron, the clay, the bronze, the silver and the gold were crushed all at the same time and became like chaff from the summer threshing floors; and the wind carried them away so that not a trace of them was found. But the stone that struck the statue became a great mountain and filled the whole earth.

 

[Jon_]

There isn't a "don't care" option, so I couldn't vote.

Honestly, I'm much more concerned with simply living God's will day by day. I've heard compelling arguments for all three: pre-, a-, and post-. I concluded that I would simply trust God to reveal the truth to me in His time--if I should even live to see the end times, that is.

 

[Beoga]

i would say that i am postmill

 

[Mayflower Pilgrim]

I would say I was posttribulational and historical premillenial

 

[CoffeeSwirls]

There isn't a "don't care" option, so I couldn't vote.

Honestly, I'm much more concerned with simply living God's will day by day. I've heard compelling arguments for all three: pre-, a-, and post-. I concluded that I would simply trust God to reveal the truth to me in His time--if I should even live to see the end times, that is.

I'm with Jon here. I'm a pan-millenial, pan-tribulational kinda guy. It will all pan out in the end!

 

[Imblessed]

There isn't a "don't care" option, so I couldn't vote.

Honestly, I'm much more concerned with simply living God's will day by day. I've heard compelling arguments for all three: pre-, a-, and post-. I concluded that I would simply trust God to reveal the truth to me in His time--if I should even live to see the end times, that is.

then you're a pan-mil (it'll all pan out in the end!) I used to be like that too, and honestly think even if I settle on one believe, I'll still feel this way, so right on!


I think we can all agree that "if" we all live to see the end times--we can be assured that God will reveal the truth to us.

I've heard many pre-trib, pre-mils say that all the people who don't believe in the rapture are going to get left-behind because they weren't watching and waiting. What a bunch of hoooeey! Like God is gonna leave you hear because you don't interpret the bible the same way they do!! LOL--course, most of them are arminian too, and think we can thwart God's plan anyway...so it shouldn't be too suprising!

 

[CoffeeSwirls]

I saw that after I wrote what I said. I must have those squinty Monday eyes or somethin'.

 

[ksen]

Dispensationalist Pre-Mill...........

Yes, we Reformed Dispy's do exist.

 

[Imblessed]

I'm said I was postmill, but I could pass for a VERY optimistic Amill.

Kenith

now, see, that's where I'm thinking i'm going to end up--a very positive amil! LOL

In doing some studies of post-mil beliefs, that "seems" to me what they are, very very optimistic amils.

From what I've learned there are some amils who think the world will go downhill (we will have a great apostacy and tribulation) but there are some amils who think that things won't be much different from now when Jesus comes back--or that things will be better but not as good as post-mils think.

I need a real good site on amillenialism--anybody know one?

CalvinOwen sent me to a great site on Postmillenialism!

 

[Imblessed]

Dispensationalist Pre-Mill...........

Yes, we Reformed Dispy's do exist.

so it's true......LOL

 

[Cajun Huguenot]

Yes, we Reformed Dispy's do exist.

Sorry my friend, but the term Reformed Dispy is an oxymoron. (As I am sure you well know.)

There are Calvinistic Dispies But Reformed is one theology and Dispensational is whole other theology and never can they meet. Of course the Progressive Dispies are moving our way. They have had to jetison some old Dispy ideas but (IMHO) they are moving in the right direction.

Kenith

 

[Foundthelight]

Definitely Pan-mill. These minor points of theology don't have anything to do with salvation. Thus I ignore them.

 

[oworm]

Pan fried.............(Just making sure i aint "left behind" )

Though i do believe the next time Christ returns physically will be the second and last time!!

 

[Calvinist Dark Lord]

I've been looking into the various end time views lately and I'm wondering if it's true that the reformed are basically split between amil and post-mil. (I've read this in a couple of different places)

So I decided to do this poll to satify my curiosity......

I don't want this to turn into an argument about who's right or wrong so I would respectfully ask you not to comment on others beliefs, but I would appreciate a post as to why you believe the way you do.

Thanks to everyone participating in this poll.


1) Amillenialism

2) Postmillenialism

3) Historic Premillenialism

4) Dispensational Premillenialism

Amillenial, Partial Preterist.

One cannot escape the implications of immanent happenings expressed by Jesus in the Matthew and Luke discourses on the "end of the age".

The great hope of the Church has always been the Return of Christ, not some rapture, or golden age (hope that brush is broad enough to get everybody, no offense intended to anyone i might have missed) It is my contention that all would suscribe to such an understanding. It may be obscured at times by these discussions, but it's none the less there.

Regards,

CDL

 

[Ebb]

The best premillennial argument for me has to do with the beast and the false prophet. In Revelation 19 and 20, we see the beast and false prophet being thrown into the lake of fire at the beginning of the millennium, while Satan is bound in the bottomless pit. Satan is thrown into the lake of fire at the end of the millennium.

To say that we are now living in the millennium, seems to me to say that the beast and false prophet have already been thrown into the lake of fire. If on the contrary, you believe that the beast and false prophet are still around (historicist interpretation) or are yet to be revealed (futurist interpretation), then that argues against both amillennialism and postmillennialism(unless I misunderstand these views).

But, I have read a more plausible amillennial argument that still allows for the beast and false prophet to "be around", if Rev 20:1-10, Rev 19, and Rev 17-18 are read as happening parallel to each other, instead of successively.

 

[Imblessed]

Amillenial, Partial Preterist.

One cannot escape the implications of immanent happenings expressed by Jesus in the Matthew and Luke discourses on the "end of the age".

The great hope of the Church has always been the Return of Christ, not some rapture, or golden age (hope that brush is broad enough to get everybody, no offense intended to anyone i might have missed) It is my contention that all would suscribe to such an understanding. It may be obscured at times by these discussions, but it's none the less there.

Regards,

CDL

I here ya! I was "this" close to being full preterist not to long ago, but after alot of reading and praying, it just didn't feel right after all. But I agree that the partial preterists have some great arguments.

That's part of my problem with amils, they don't count 70AD as being much significance at all, and I see it as being pretty big.

Still studying, still thinking.......all the sides have some good points to show......it's probably a mix of all of them!

 

[Imblessed]

Sorry my friend, but the term Reformed Dispy is an oxymoron. (As I am sure you well know.)

There are Calvinistic Dispies But Reformed is one theology and Dispensational is whole other theology and never can they meet. Of course the Progressive Dispies are moving our way. They have had to jetison some old Dispy ideas but (IMHO) they are moving in the right direction.

Kenith

that's what I was thinking. Aren't the reformed strictly Covenental? That would mean they can't be dispy too right? Ahhh the confusion.....