end time views

[5solas]

....These minor points of theology don't have anything to do with salvation. Thus I ignore them.

Well, I am not so sure about that - there is a whole theological system behind the Dispensational view. The Jews will get saved by returning to that Old Testament sacrifice system - they say. Which of course is not true, remember the letter to the Hebrews? So these points seem to be minor at first sight but when considering all the implications it's worth discussing them....

 

[ksen]

Well, I am not so sure about that - there is a whole theological system behind the Dispensational view. The Jews will get saved by returning to that Old Testament sacrifice system - they say.

No, that is not what Dispensationalism teaches. Would you mind providing a quote from a Dispensationalist teacher that says this?

 

[ksen]

Sorry my friend, but the term Reformed Dispy is an oxymoron. (As I am sure you well know.)

There are Calvinistic Dispies But Reformed is one theology and Dispensational is whole other theology and never can they meet. Of course the Progressive Dispies are moving our way. They have had to jetison some old Dispy ideas but (IMHO) they are moving in the right direction.

Kenith

I could be wrong, but I am pretty sure there are Reformed Baptists who hold to different forms of Dispensationalism.

 

[ksen]

that's what I was thinking. Aren't the reformed strictly Covenental? That would mean they can't be dispy too right? Ahhh the confusion.....

I don't think so. Maybe when you are talking about Presbyterians. But like I said above in another post I believe there are Reformed Baptists who teach some form of Dispensationalism.

 

[Mayflower Pilgrim]

Dispensationalist Pre-Mill...........

Yes, we Reformed Dispy's do exist.

When I read this I fell to the floor in shock

 

[Mayflower Pilgrim]

I could be wrong, but I am pretty sure there are Reformed Baptists who hold to different forms of Dispensationalism.

I am close to being a "reformed baptist" (no capitals ) but we tend to be historic premill although we agree with dispensations we do not teach multiple ways of salvation. See: http://www.mbrem.com/covenant/covchod7.htm

 

[ksen]

I am close to being a "reformed baptist" (no capitals ) but we tend to be historic premill although we agree with dispensations we do not teach multiple ways of salvation. See: http://www.mbrem.com/covenant/covchod7.htm

Good! Neither do we Dispensationalists.

 

[Imblessed]

I am close to being a "reformed baptist" (no capitals ) but we tend to be historic premill although we agree with dispensations we do not teach multiple ways of salvation. See: http://www.mbrem.com/covenant/covchod7.htm

This is a good website. It's the one that Calvinowen sent me to to read about Postmillenialism. I notice that all the different end-time views are explained there, from the reformed perspective, which is good.

One thing I noticed, this particular page you sent me(and everyone else) too, it only talks of 4 dispensations. That's different from the (LeHaye, Darby) dispensationalists--they claim 7 I think, and that the Jews as a nation will be re-instated, along with the sacrifices and such. This makes NO sense to me at all.

So maybe everyone here is misunderstanding you and Ksen when you say that you are dispensationalists....

Oh, and at the end of the page, it says

"Afterwards comes the end; the final judgement and the ressurection. In the old testament there are frequent intimations of another and better economy, to which the Mosiac institutions were merely preparatory. But we have no intimation in scripture that the dispensation of the Spirit is to give way for a new and better dispensation for the conversion of the nations. When the gospel is fully preached, then comes the end"

this doesn't sound pre-mill at all to me.......

 

[Imblessed]

I don't think so. Maybe when you are talking about Presbyterians. But like I said above in another post I believe there are Reformed Baptists who teach some form of Dispensationalism.

I'm really not sure what my church teaches right now. I think some form of pre-mill, but I'm not sure about the dispensations. They are reformed(in a manner of speaking) though. Well, maybe just Calvinistic Baptists. At any rate, I "think" they teach the pre-trib rapture, pre-mill bit, which i don't agree with, but I'm not going to rush out and change churches just because of that!!!!

I'm just thrilled that they teach Calvinism...the end-time views are VERY minor in my opinion....

So I guess you are right that some reformed baptists teach some form of dispensationalism, but I'm not real sure others would say they are "reformed" then....you know? Not that I want to get into a nitpicking battle about what reformed really means......

 

[CoffeeSwirls]

I think it best that we realize that reformed, covenential and Calvinist are not synonyms. I am reformed and a Calvinist, and am only now learning about covenential theology. As a way of learning about this interpretation, I have on order I Will Be Your God:
How God’s Covenant Enriches Our Lives byT. M. Moore.

It is apparent to me, though, that the three words do not all mean the same thing. I don't believe you can be Arminian and also be reformed or covenential, but you can follow one degree of theology. As I see it, the list goes as such:

Calvinist
Reformed
Covenential

You must be Calvinist to go to the next step, but you don't have to take that next step. You have to be reformed to be Covenential, but you don't have to take that step, either. If you are Covenential, you must have taken the previous steps already.

This comes from one who is rather unlearned about the finer points, so I welcome any correction from those more knowledgeable than I.

 

[CoffeeSwirls]

One other note: To say that there have been no changes in the way God has dispensed His grace, mercy, judgment, etc is a fallacy. Believing in this, though, does not make one dispensational.

 

[Imblessed]

I think it best that we realize that reformed, covenential and Calvinist are not synonyms. I am reformed and a Calvinist, and am only now learning about covenential theology. As a way of learning about this interpretation, I have on order I Will Be Your God:
How God’s Covenant Enriches Our Lives byT. M. Moore.

It is apparent to me, though, that the three words do not all mean the same thing. I don't believe you can be Arminian and also be reformed or covenential, but you can follow one degree of theology. As I see it, the list goes as such:

Calvinist
Reformed
Covenential

You must be Calvinist to go to the next step, but you don't have to take that next step. You have to be reformed to be Covenential, but you don't have to take that step, either. If you are Covenential, you must have taken the previous steps already.

This comes from one who is rather unlearned about the finer points, so I welcome any correction from those more knowledgeable than I.

I think that makes sense, let's see if anyone corrects you. I'm pretty new myself, and am figuring it all out as I go! I've taken the Calvinist step, and I'm learning the "reformed" view, but I thought that part of what makes one Reformed IS a covenental view.......

 

[Mayflower Pilgrim]

This is a good website. It's the one that Calvinowen sent me to to read about Postmillenialism. I notice that all the different end-time views are explained there, from the reformed perspective, which is good.

One thing I noticed, this particular page you sent me(and everyone else) too, it only talks of 4 dispensations. That's different from the (LeHaye, Darby) dispensationalists--they claim 7 I think, and that the Jews as a nation will be re-instated, along with the sacrifices and such. This makes NO sense to me at all.

So maybe everyone here is misunderstanding you and Ksen when you say that you are dispensationalists....

Oh, and at the end of the page, it says this doesn't sound pre-mill at all to me.......

The number of dispensations is not the issue, some hold to as few as three others as many as...well it depends if they are ultradispensationalists.

Note I did not say that I was a dispensationalist, rather that I hold to different dispensations of the Covenant of Grace.

Regarding the end-times no the site is amillenial which I disagree with.

 

[Mayflower Pilgrim]

I think it best that we realize that reformed, covenential and Calvinist are not synonyms. I am reformed and a Calvinist, and am only now learning about covenential theology. As a way of learning about this interpretation, I have on order I Will Be Your God:
How God’s Covenant Enriches Our Lives byT. M. Moore.

It is apparent to me, though, that the three words do not all mean the same thing. I don't believe you can be Arminian and also be reformed or covenential, but you can follow one degree of theology. As I see it, the list goes as such:

Calvinist
Reformed
Covenential

You must be Calvinist to go to the next step, but you don't have to take that next step. You have to be reformed to be Covenential, but you don't have to take that step, either. If you are Covenential, you must have taken the previous steps already.

This comes from one who is rather unlearned about the finer points, so I welcome any correction from those more knowledgeable than I.

Well I am Calvinist and Covenental but not reformed

BTW: have a gander at this: http://www.spurgeongems.org/vols7-9/chs391.pdf

 

[Imblessed]

The number of dispensations is not the issue, some hold to as few as three others as many as...well it depends if they are ultradispensationalists.

Note I did not say that I was a dispensationalist, rather that I hold to different dispensations of the Covenant of Grace.

Regarding the end-times no the site is amillenial which I disagree with.

Ahhh, I see....I think!

boy, I think I might be getting more confused then ever. Turns out there are more "views" then I thought! LOL I should stop while i'm ahead!

 

[Imblessed]

Well I am Calvinist and Covenental but not reformed

BTW: have a gander at this: http://www.spurgeongems.org/vols7-9/chs391.pdf

That was pretty powerful! I would love to actually have been there!

thanks for the link, It has given me something to think about, for sure.....

 

[W Jay Schroeder]

That was pretty powerful! I would love to actually have been there!

thanks for the link, It has given me something to think about, for sure.....

So sis what would i be. What ever it is I'm right.

 

[Imblessed]

So sis what would i be. What ever it is I'm right.

bro, you are most definately a dispensational pre-millenial pre-tribulation rapturist!!!

And right? Well, I don't know about that!

Did you read that link from Spurgeon? It was pretty good!

 

[Imblessed]

Regarding the end-times no the site is amillenial which I disagree with.

From what I saw on the site, almost every view was defended by a reformed preacher. So, I don't think the whole site is amillenial. As I mentioned, I read a great summary of Postmillenialism on there. But the particular page you sent me to, after discussing the dispensations, did sound a bit amil....

 

[W Jay Schroeder]

bro, you are most definately a dispensational pre-millenial pre-tribulation rapturist!!!

And right? Well, I don't know about that!

Did you read that link from Spurgeon? It was pretty good!

it was needed to be downloaded and never came up of course i probaly did something wrong or it is somewhere on the computer. Well half way up into the clouds i will be sure to say i told you so. And as Mike Wornkie says, i'll grab up a sinner and say "do you repent or should i let go."