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End in itself

Sojourner<><

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What cause is worthy enough that it would be worthwhile to devote your life to it?

I don't think it's helping people, I don't think it's love (charitable or otherwise), I don't think it's free candy, so I'm looking for what other people think.

IMHO, a life devoted to developing memories worthy of remembering would be a good way to go.
 
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variant

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What cause is worthy enough that it would be worthwhile to devote your life to it?

I don't think it's helping people, I don't think it's love (charitable or otherwise), I don't think it's free candy, so I'm looking for what other people think.

Whatever cause you end up doing so for is worth it.

My mom for instance devoted most of her life to raising a family. One of my friends devoted a huge portion of his life to pirating software before dieing of sudden onset diabetes.

The only way value exists is because something is valued.
 
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Emmy

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Dear RecoveringPhilosopher. I am a Christian, and after my family had left to start their own families, it took some time to find the right answer, to the same question you are asking now. God made us in His image, and after Adam and Eve had lost us heritage, we now have to try and become what God intended for us. Jesus came to show us the Way, He opened the door back to our Creator-God, and He told us what to do, to become worthy of living our lives as God had decreed for us. Jesus gave us 2 Commandments, to love God with all our beings, and to love each other as we love ourselves. In practical terms: Repent, exchange our selfish and wilfull natures, into loving and caring selflessly. Treating others as we would like to be treated, with love, compassion and real considerration. Jesus has promised to help and guide us, and we have been given years to learn and become perfect, as God is perfect. That way we will have life abundant on Earth, always know the Love, Joy and Peace, only God can give, and always have God on our side, in good and bad times. You asked a question, and this is my answer. May I also say: God loves all, Jesus died for all, and who soever will, can follow Jesus back to our original homes. I say this humbly and with love, RecoveringPhilosopher, and send greetings. Emmy, sister in Christ.
 
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DailyBlessings

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The service of Christ through the service of others is enough for me. What else would I devote my life to? Next to those things which are eternal, my life is a drop in the bucket. So I'd rather spend my life participating in the love of the universe which is undying, than the pursuit of anything else which is not.
 
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elman

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What cause is worthy enough that it would be worthwhile to devote your life to it?

I don't think it's helping people, I don't think it's love (charitable or otherwise), I don't think it's free candy, so I'm looking for what other people think.

Why do you think it is not helping people?
 
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The Nihilist

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Why do you think it is not helping people?

The question is what activity is worth doing for its own reasons, and not because it's good for something else. If we say that helping people is the best thing to do, it must be because a person fills this place as that which is good for its own sake. But if that's true, then helping myself is at least as good, and helping other is not better.
 
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quatona

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I guess I mean what would you do if your material needs, your responsibilities, and everything else was taken care of? In that situation, what would you do after you got tired of watching tv?
I never watch tv. :)
Most of the time do I what I like, and this, luckily, pays for my material needs. I don´t have a lot of responsibilities, so that´s not an issue that occupies a lot of time and effort, either.
I don´t know. I guess I am not really aware of my most basic ideals.
I really love to spend time with persons in a way that we enjoy each other´s presence.
 
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quatona

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What exactly is it that you do quatona? I'm curious to know
By profession? I am a guitarist and guitar teacher. I am more passionate about the teaching than the performing, though - spending quality time with my students. :)
All sorts of music related occupations - recording, doing the sound at live-concerts, writing and performing music for the theater. Chamber music. Currently creating a two person performance with one of my best friends, an actor and director.
Studying and discussing topics like education and communication.
Doing music workshops with socially disprivileged juveniles ("problem childs" :doh:), helping them gain the confidence and self-esteem that they are lacking. (Think "Rhythm is it" in small. :D)

These are all things that I would do without getting money for it, too.
 
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elman

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The question is what activity is worth doing for its own reasons, and not because it's good for something else. If we say that helping people is the best thing to do, it must be because a person fills this place as that which is good for its own sake. But if that's true, then helping myself is at least as good, and helping other is not better.

No being selfish rather than generous is not better. It is not better for others and it is not better for you. Our unltimate happiness in this life wheather God exists or not is based on making others happy. It is a bank shot and always received by being reflected, not by directly doing something for ourselves.
 
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Eudaimonist

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What cause is worthy enough that it would be worthwhile to devote your life to it?

Your own flourishing.

For instance, find what you have talents for, and develop them. Form loving relationships, and cherish your loved ones. Socially, stand up for your values.

The cause(s) will depend on the individual.


eudaimonia,

Mark
 
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Eudaimonist

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No being selfish rather than generous is not better. It is not better for others and it is not better for you. Our unltimate happiness in this life wheather God exists or not is based on making others happy. It is a bank shot and always received by being reflected, not by directly doing something for ourselves.

I have found from personal experience that this is not true. My life has been enriched largely through personal accomplishments. While having positive relationships with others is necessary to personal fulfillment, it isn't everything. In fact, being a "people pleaser" can be a road to major unhappiness. Some of the most miserable people I know try to find happiness by making others happy!


eudaimonia,

Mark
 
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The Nihilist

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No being selfish rather than generous is not better. It is not better for others and it is not better for you. Our unltimate happiness in this life wheather God exists or not is based on making others happy. It is a bank shot and always received by being reflected, not by directly doing something for ourselves.

Why?


Also, I think Mark may have won
 
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DailyBlessings

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Why?


Also, I think Mark may have won
Won what? Can one person dictate what will make another happy?

As for eudaimonia, I'm quite in agreement that the self should flourish, but I think it does so best when it pours itself out for others, not when spent in self-service. Trying to make yourself happy all the time is a fickle beast, for a while it seems to work fine, but a single turn of fortune can whisk it away from you. By contrast, a life spent in love and the service of others is a constant source of contentment. When you perish, what becomes of the works you have done for yourself? They vanish. It is a fruitless endeavor, and though you may not ever see the results of your vanity, I would be hard-pressed to call a long string of worthless acts human flourishing. By contrast, the works of one who serves others continue to bear fruit in many and unpredictable ways long after their time is complete. Such a society, in which the care and illumination of others is the priority rather than the sharply conceived self; wherein works of charity, the practice of creativity, and the teaching of wisdom predominate, is closer to my notion of a eudaimon humanity.
 
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The Nihilist

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Won what? Can one person dictate what will make another happy?

As for eudaimonia, I'm quite in agreement that the self should flourish, but I think it does so best when it pours itself out for others, not when spent in self-service. Trying to make yourself happy all the time is a fickle beast, for a while it seems to work fine, but a single turn of fortune can whisk it away from you. By contrast, a life spent in love and the service of others is a constant source of contentment. When you perish, what becomes of the works you have done for yourself? They vanish. It is a fruitless endeavor, and though you may not ever see the results of your vanity, I would be hard-pressed to call a long string of worthless acts human flourishing. By contrast, the works of one who serves others continue to bear fruit in many and unpredictable ways long after their time is complete. Such a society, in which the care and illumination of others is the priority rather than the sharply conceived self; wherein works of charity, the practice of creativity, and the teaching of wisdom predominate, is closer to my notion of a eudaimon humanity.

1. I think you're talking about happiness as pleasure, which is not the same as flourishing.
2. I find your argument that works done for the sake of others last longer than those done for the sake of oneself unconvincing, but maybe because I'm unclear on what you're saying. Are you talking about a life of charity, or, say, a life in public service, for example?
 
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Eudaimonist

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Trying to make yourself happy all the time is a fickle beast, for a while it seems to work fine, but a single turn of fortune can whisk it away from you.

If fortune could whisk it away, I'd say that you've made the fundamental error of pursuing purely external values instead of values that have an internal aspect. Note that I'm not advocating the pursuit of purely external values.

By contrast, a life spent in love and the service of others is a constant source of contentment.

Not necessarily. I've known miserable people who spend their lives in love and service of others. People need something of their own to cherish and esteem, not selfless servitude. Generosity only in moderation, and disregard this advice at your peril!

I'm not at all arguing that people shouldn't care about other people. I think it is great to have loved ones who one treats with respect and kindness. I'm saying that this is not enough for fulfillment in life.

When you perish, what becomes of the works you have done for yourself? They vanish.

When I perish, the issue of happiness versus unhappiness is moot. I don't need my works to outlast my death. *I* am my most important work, and I will be with me my whole life. That is enough. :)

It is a fruitless endeavor, and though you may not ever see the results of your vanity, I would be hard-pressed to call a long string of worthless acts human flourishing.

I too would be hard-pressed to call a long string of worthless acts human flourishing.

However, I am confident to call a long string of worthwhile acts human flourishing. :clap:

By contrast, the works of one who serves others continue to bear fruit in many and unpredictable ways long after their time is complete.

Possibly so, but the works of one who serves himself through creative and productive action continue to bear fruit in many and unpredictable ways long after their time is complete. And best of all, this doesn't require any self-destruction.

Such a society, in which the care and illumination of others is the priority rather than the sharply conceived self; wherein works of charity, the practice of creativity, and the teaching of wisdom predominate, is closer to my notion of a eudaimon humanity.

Then we differ on what sacrifice entails, since I'm talking about a broadly-conceived self, and I associate creativity and the teaching of wisdom with justified self-interest. Even kind-acts-in-wise-moderation (charitable acts consistent with one's well-being, not sacrificing one's well-being) would also be justified self-interest.


eudaimonia,

Mark
 
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