Empathy...

[Khalliqa]

Thumbs up ? Down? Something in between?

Empathy is colloquially and loosely described as the ability to place yourself in another person's "shoes" (official definitions are often not in sync with the way words are actually used so I eschew the official definition sometimes).

I read an article several years back essentially stating that empathy is a problem rather than an asset to communication because the empath takes on the problems of others often not knowing where to draw the line for their own mental health. Also, it raises the possibility of abetting someone's bad habits.

OTOH I've read and experience how empathy means respecting that someone has their own reality and the ability to see that reality without passing judgment is the first stage to having the relevant data to pass more wise judgment if one so desires. Also, it allows us to understand that others have autonomy.

The above is relevant to individual relationships but I think it is also a question for communities and differing beliefs. How well ca you ascertain someone's different worldview if you never actually sustain your own for a minute to consider theirs? And is or is this not a way to peace?

Or do you envision peace only happening when everyone thinks the same.. therefore empathy not necessary?

What say you?

 

[Cearbhall]

I read an article several years back essentially stating that empathy is a problem rather than an asset to communication because the empath takes on the problems of others often not knowing where to draw the line for their own mental health. Also, it raises the possibility of abetting someone's bad habits.

There are definitely people all across the spectrum. Some completely lack the critical thinking skills and emotional maturity that are necessary to have anything close to an accurate view of another person's life. And then there are some who feel the emotions of others as their own and can easily spiral into depression or anxiety.

 

[Khalliqa]

There are definitely people all across the spectrum. Some completely lack the critical thinking skills and emotional maturity that are necessary to have anything close to an accurate view of another person's life. And then there are some who feel the emotions of others as their own and can easily spiral into depression or anxiety.

Well that was well stated..

This is a problem for me though.. It is a problem for individual peace and societal peace.. and I wanna solve it lol

 

[Gene Parmesan]

Empathy is is ESSENTIAL. Do we accurately feel someone else's feeling and experiences? Not always. However, since we can experience what others feel to a degree, and we recognize them as thinking and feeling agents like ourselves, our aversion to unpleasantness becomes an aversion to inflicting unpleasantness on others. It is definitely a key component for a functioning social society.

 

[Khalliqa]

I'm inclined towards empathy as a good thing but I read this:

Snippet:

"Empathy’s effects, then, weren’t in the direction of increasing an interest in justice. Rather, they increased special concern for the target of the empathy, despite the cost to others.”

Link: Why Empathy Is Bad

 

[Gene Parmesan]

I just don't see how a society can possibly function without empathy. People that have zero empathy are almost guaranteed to be sociopaths. I would contend that the benefits far outweigh any negatives.

 

[brinny]

Empathy:

(or generosity or kindness....they sorta' "intertwine", don't they?)

 

[Khalliqa]

His argument is that empathy is too narrowly focused on an individual's pain that we lose sight of the scope of a situation and our sense of justice is skewed..

But this is why I think critical thinking and evaluation is important because it forces us to look at opposing views before we fully consider a thing. This doesn't help in the moment.

But I'm with you guys that in the moment our humanity is more important even if we discover information that may alter our views later.

 

[Rebecca12]

What is necessary is compassion. Empathy can at times be crippling. If you teach yourself to be a bit more distant from the plights of others it can free up your mental energy to be more compassionate and take action. I learned this lesson early. I went to law school because I wanted to help the poor and disadvantaged. I wanted to work at Legal Aid. I got a job in law school doing just that. And I couldn't sleep at night as I took everyone's problems home with me. I was crippled by it. I changed course and went into an area of law that was quite lucrative. And then I gave money to various advocacy and legal organizations that help the poor. I was also able to lobby for the causes I believed in because it gave me a bit of distance from individual suffering. But even that is difficult for me because I take it so seriously. I did much better earning money and then giving it away.

I also know people who profess to be highly empathetic. And all they are is enmeshed in their own feelings.

 

[Khalliqa]

^^^ I've got a LOT of questions about that but I'm typing and thinking on the fly.. So I'll come back later. Thanks for your input.

 

[Gene Parmesan]

His argument is that empathy is too narrowly focused on an individual's pain that we lose sight of the scope of a situation and our sense of justice is skewed..

But this is why I think critical thinking and evaluation is important because it forces us to look at opposing views before we fully consider a thing. This doesn't help in the moment.

But I'm with you guys that in the moment our humanity is more important even if we discover information that may alter our views later.

Empathy by itself could be bad or good, situationally speaking. It definitely needs to be tempered with rationality. I think of empathy is a necessary ingredient, but not the entire entree.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

Thumbs up ? Down? Something in between?

Empathy is colloquially and loosely described as the ability to place yourself in another person's "shoes" (official definitions are often not in sync with the way words are actually used so I eschew the official definition sometimes).

I read an article several years back essentially stating that empathy is a problem rather than an asset to communication because the empath takes on the problems of others often not knowing where to draw the line for their own mental health. Also, it raises the possibility of abetting someone's bad habits.

OTOH I've read and experience how empathy means respecting that someone has their own reality and the ability to see that reality without passing judgment is the first stage to having the relevant data to pass more wise judgment if one so desires. Also, it allows us to understand that others have autonomy.

The above is relevant to individual relationships but I think it is also a question for communities and differing beliefs. How well ca you ascertain someone's different worldview if you never actually sustain your own for a minute to consider theirs? And is or is this not a way to peace?

Or do you envision peace only happening when everyone thinks the same.. therefore empathy not necessary?

What say you?

...I say empathy (and at times, even sympathy) is needed as much as possible.

 

[PsychoSarah]

I just don't see how a society can possibly function without empathy. People that have zero empathy are almost guaranteed to be sociopaths. I would contend that the benefits far outweigh any negatives.

I personally have impaired empathy, as a result of being autistic (not all autistic people have this problem, but I do). This does not mean I don't care when other people are hurt or suffering, but rather than I don't have internal suffering that matches up with theirs unless I have had a similar experience before. For example, I am perfectly capable of feeling bad for a person breaking their arm, but can't relate to the pain, so how much I feel bad is more shaped by how other people react to it than something automatic. Furthermore, in such situations, how badly I feel can easily be influenced by factors surrounding the incident, even though they shouldn't. I'll feel almost nothing for a person breaking their arm if it is the result directly of their own folly (example: they decided to jump onto a trampoline from the roof of their house, and broke their arm that way). However, if they were pushed off the roof and broke their arm, I'd feel far worse for them than if they just fell.

 

[Gene Parmesan]

I personally have impaired empathy, as a result of being autistic (not all autistic people have this problem, but I do). This does not mean I don't care when other people are hurt or suffering, but rather than I don't have internal suffering that matches up with theirs unless I have had a similar experience before. For example, I am perfectly capable of feeling bad for a person breaking their arm, but can't relate to the pain, so how much I feel bad is more shaped by how other people react to it than something automatic. Furthermore, in such situations, how badly I feel can easily be influenced by factors surrounding the incident, even though they shouldn't. I'll feel almost nothing for a person breaking their arm if it is the result directly of their own folly (example: they decided to jump onto a trampoline from the roof of their house, and broke their arm that way). However, if they were pushed off the roof and broke their arm, I'd feel far worse for them than if they just fell.

You've got other altruistic tendencies to make up for that deficiency. But I'll rephrase it a bit and say that zero empathy is a common trait among sociopaths. It's definitely a part of most descriptions.

I don't doubt that you are caring, as I have seen you demonstrate during my brief time on these forums.

 

[MehGuy]

I like Paul Bloom.

I do agree that empathy is overrated, and in large quantities even quite dangerous.

Considering sadism is most likely a form of empathy, I laugh when some feminists try to pull the "women are more empathetic than men, therefore better.." card.

“It’s not that empathy itself automatically leads to kindness. Rather, empathy has to connect to kindness that already exists. Empathy makes good people better, then, because kind people don’t like suffering, and empathy makes this suffering salient. If you made a sadist more empathic, it would just lead to a happier sadist,”

-Paul Bloom

There was a good discussion on an MRA podcast I frequently listen too called The Honey Badgers. It was about men and empathy. The general discussion was that having an abundance of empathy doesn't necessarily make someone a more moral person, and when it comes to actually rescuing and helping people having a less empathetic mindset is probably more apt.

Which I think is the curse of both genders. Toxic masculinity often being men who are too low on the empathetic spectrum (sociopathic behavior) and toxic femininity when women are too high on the emotional spectrum (sadomasochistic behavior).

Modern feminism and social justice warriors are often plagued with people who feel too much.

 

[Khalliqa]

I see empathy as data. You need as much of it as possible to make inferences, judgments, decisions etc. Empathy is emotional data. Just like reading a non fiction book does not make you kinder.. it does create a greater opportunity to understand the world around you..

 

[IAMABELIEVER1979]

Thumbs up ? Down? Something in between?

Empathy is colloquially and loosely described as the ability to place yourself in another person's "shoes" (official definitions are often not in sync with the way words are actually used so I eschew the official definition sometimes).

I read an article several years back essentially stating that empathy is a problem rather than an asset to communication because the empath takes on the problems of others often not knowing where to draw the line for their own mental health. Also, it raises the possibility of abetting someone's bad habits.

OTOH I've read and experience how empathy means respecting that someone has their own reality and the ability to see that reality without passing judgment is the first stage to having the relevant data to pass more wise judgment if one so desires. Also, it allows us to understand that others have autonomy.

The above is relevant to individual relationships but I think it is also a question for communities and differing beliefs. How well ca you ascertain someone's different worldview if you never actually sustain your own for a minute to consider theirs? And is or is this not a way to peace?

Or do you envision peace only happening when everyone thinks the same.. therefore empathy not necessary?

What say you?

First of all before I write this just to let you know that I'm not a very intelligent person, so if my answer seems really stupid I apologize. If I totally misunderstood the question and I did not answer the question correctly again I apologize.

I see empathy can be a good thing and/or a bad thing.

I think it would help me to have empathy towards those with different worldview. I would be less hateful. I have become angry and hateful towards those who have different worldviews then mine. Not simply because they have different worldviews the mine, but those who seem angry and hateful towards me.

For example, I have certain sins in my life where people say that I deserve death as a result. If I can empathize with them, I wouldn't be so angry and hateful towards them, which does not feel good.

But I also empathize those who do have the same problems and worldview that I have.

Another example, when I hear this group of people who get beaten for being who they are, I Cry and empathize with them, because that could be me. This depresses me and makes me feel that I'm unsafe. It makes me feel extremely sad towards those type of people.

I would love to empathize with those who hate people like me. I would love to understand their reality.

 

[IAMABELIEVER1979]

Thumbs up ? Down? Something in between?

Empathy is colloquially and loosely described as the ability to place yourself in another person's "shoes" (official definitions are often not in sync with the way words are actually used so I eschew the official definition sometimes).

I read an article several years back essentially stating that empathy is a problem rather than an asset to communication because the empath takes on the problems of others often not knowing where to draw the line for their own mental health. Also, it raises the possibility of abetting someone's bad habits.

OTOH I've read and experience how empathy means respecting that someone has their own reality and the ability to see that reality without passing judgment is the first stage to having the relevant data to pass more wise judgment if one so desires. Also, it allows us to understand that others have autonomy.

The above is relevant to individual relationships but I think it is also a question for communities and differing beliefs. How well ca you ascertain someone's different worldview if you never actually sustain your own for a minute to consider theirs? And is or is this not a way to peace?

Or do you envision peace only happening when everyone thinks the same.. therefore empathy not necessary?


What say you?

My Hope is that I learn to have empathy towards those who get hurt and towards those who hurt other people.

 

[PsychoSarah]

You've got other altruistic tendencies to make up for that deficiency. But I'll rephrase it a bit and say that zero empathy is a common trait among sociopaths. It's definitely a part of most descriptions.

I don't doubt that you are caring, as I have seen you demonstrate during my brief time on these forums.

I am not attempting to demonstrate my own ability to care about others, but rather am suggesting that empathy alone is not all that contributes to people working together in societies. After all, there are plenty of sociopaths that legitimately don't care about the well-being of other people that still manage to function within society as a whole.

 

[Gene Parmesan]

I am not attempting to demonstrate my own ability to care about others, but rather am suggesting that empathy alone is not all that contributes to people working together in societies. After all, there are plenty of sociopaths that legitimately don't care about the well-being of other people that still manage to function within society as a whole.

I'm not disagreeing with you. But I wonder if an entire society of sociopaths would be just as successful. The fact that sociopaths can thrive in our modern society is irrelevant to my claim that empathy is a necessary ingredient for humanity as a whole. Also, I am not advocating for "empathy alone" at all.