Ellen White on the Sabbath

[Stryder06]

Neither does meeting for worship on Saturday make it the sabbath. This is used to prove Christians kept the sabbath and equates worship as proof of sabbath observance.

Paul's purpose was not to worship but evangelized. Worship is incidental in this case. Not one single verse says Paul went to worship. Such is an assumed detail and contrary to Paul's expression and testimony elsewhere.

bugkiller

Not one verse says Paul went to evangelize. We do know however that Paul was a Jew, and that Jew's enter into the synagogue on the Sabbath, as it was their custom, because that's what they did in obedience to the commandment. So there is no reason to believe Paul was evangelizing, and every reason to believe he was keeping the Sabbath.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Bad choice but your choice; Que sera sera!

No more of a bad choice then your own to not read the book that would answer many of the questions you have. Besides, I'd rather not derail your thread by discussing various points of doctrine that you hold which I believe are founded in tradition, that contradict scripture.
...

There is a thread that you are welcome to use for discussion about Catholic teaching of the sabbath and Sunday, it is called Catechism of the Catholic Church on Sabbath observance.

 

[Stryder06]

There is a thread that you are welcome to use for discussion about Catholic teaching of the sabbath and Sunday, it is called Catechism of the Catholic Church on Sabbath observance.

I'm pretty sure I stopped in there already. The only thing I would say is what I've been saying "read the book".

 

[Cribstyl]

Not one verse says Paul went to evangelize. We do know however that Paul was a Jew, and that Jew's enter into the synagogue on the Sabbath, as it was their custom, because that's what they did in obedience to the commandment. So there is no reason to believe Paul was evangelizing, and every reason to believe he was keeping the Sabbath.

False, Paul was sent out by the Holy Spirit to do the work of the ministery. He began from the church at Antioch to synagogues of other countries. To the Jews first, to preach the gospel.
Act 13:1Now there were in the church that was at Antioch certain prophets and teachers; as Barnabas, and Simeon that was called Niger, and Lucius of Cyrene, and Manaen, which had been brought up with Herod the tetrarch, and Saul.
Act 13:2As they ministered to the Lord, and fasted, the Holy Ghost said, Separate me Barnabas and Saul for the work whereunto I have called them.
Act 13:3And when they had fasted and prayed, and laid [their] hands on them, they sent [them] away.
Act 13:4So they, being sent forth by the Holy Ghost, departed unto Seleucia; and from thence they sailed to Cyprus.

 

[Stryder06]

False, Paul was sent out by the Holy Spirit to do the work of the ministery. He began from the church at Antioch to synagogues of other countries. To the Jews first, to preach the gospel.
Act 13:1Now there were in the church that was at Antioch certain prophets and teachers; as Barnabas, and Simeon that was called Niger, and Lucius of Cyrene, and Manaen, which had been brought up with Herod the tetrarch, and Saul.
Act 13:2As they ministered to the Lord, and fasted, the Holy Ghost said, Separate me Barnabas and Saul for the work whereunto I have called them.
Act 13:3And when they had fasted and prayed, and laid [their] hands on them, they sent [them] away.
Act 13:4So they, being sent forth by the Holy Ghost, departed unto Seleucia; and from thence they sailed to Cyprus.

Not false at all. No one denies that the Holy Spirit called Saul to do a work for Him. The statement was that the bible does not say that Paul was entering into the synagogue on the Sabbath for the purpose of evangelism. That's what you say he was doing, because you refuse to admit that he was keeping the Sabbath like a good Jew.

 

[MoreCoffee]

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In bits and pieces perhaps, as time permits, but as I observed before Ellen White is neither inspired nor a prophet according to the teaching of God's Church.

I've already stated that testimony has been given by priests within your church, that Ellen White is indeed a true prophet. So how do you explain that?

If they ARE priests, still, and not converts to SDAism it would need an explanation from them why they were describing her thus. I speculate that any priest saying such a thing about Ellen White would be saying no more than is said of Mohammed by the Church with respect to Islam; that is to say, calling Mohammed a prophet to the Arab people and other Muslims is not an endorsement of Mohammed's message when his message is in error in a similar way anybody who called Ellen White a prophet to SDAs would not be endorsing her message where that message is in error. I am, however, persuaded that calling Ellen White a prophet is itself an error of judgement that no Catholic ought to make.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Not false at all. No one denies that the Holy Spirit called Saul to do a work for Him. The statement was that the bible does not say that Paul was entering into the synagogue on the Sabbath for the purpose of evangelism. That's what you say he was doing, because you refuse to admit that he was keeping the Sabbath like a good Jew.

I think you are mistaken, Paul did in fact evangelise when he went to Synagogue on the sabbath, and he did the same at other places on the sabbath as the scripture says,

And from thence to Philippi, which is the chief city of that part of Macedonia, and a colony: and we were in that city abiding certain days. And on the sabbath we went out of the city by a river side, where prayer was wont to be made; and we sat down, and spake unto the women which resorted thither. And a certain woman named Lydia, a seller of purple, of the city of Thyatira, which worshipped God, heard us: whose heart the Lord opened, that she attended unto the things which were spoken of Paul. And when she was baptized, and her household, she besought us, saying, If ye have judged me to be faithful to the Lord, come into my house, and abide there. And she constrained us. (Acts 16:12-15)​

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

If they ARE priests, still, and not converts to SDAism it would need an explanation from them why they were describing her thus. I speculate that any priest saying such a thing about Ellen White would be saying no more than is said of Mohammed by the Church with respect to Islam; that is to say, calling Mohammed a prophet to the Arab people and other Muslims is not an endorsement of Mohammed's message when his message is in error in a similar way anybody who called Ellen White a prophet to SDAs would not be endorsing her message where that message is in error. I am, however, persuaded that calling Ellen White a prophet is itself an error of judgement that no Catholic ought to make.

How is E. White much diffeent from the Mormon's prophet, J. Smith?

Joseph Smith - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Joseph Smith, Jr. (December 23, 1805 – June 27, 1844) was an American religious leader and the founder of the Latter Day Saint movement, the predominant branch of which is Mormonism. At age twenty-four Smith published the Book of Mormon, and in the next fourteen years he attracted thousands of followers, established cities and temples, and created a lasting religious culture

According to Richard Bushman, the "signal feature" of Smith's life was "his sense of being guided by revelation".[272] Instead of presenting ideas with logical arguments Smith dictated authoritative revelations and let people decide whether or not to believe.[273] Smith's teachings came primarily through his revelations, which read like scripture: oracular and open to interpretation. Even Smith's followers disagree about the implications of his teachings.[273] Smith and his followers viewed his revelations as being above teachings or opinions,[274] and Smith's actions seemed to indicate that he believed in his revelations as much as his most loyal followers.[275]

 

[Stryder06]

If they ARE priests, still, and not converts to SDAism it would need an explanation from them why they were describing her thus. I speculate that any priest saying such a thing about Ellen White would be saying no more than is said of Mohammed by the Church with respect to Islam; that is to say, calling Mohammed a prophet to the Arab people and other Muslims is not an endorsement of Mohammed's message when his message is in error in a similar way anybody who called Ellen White a prophet to SDAs would not be endorsing her message where that message is in error. I am, however, persuaded that calling Ellen White a prophet is itself an error of judgement that no Catholic ought to make.

Well, I know what I've read, and what I've bore witness to. I guess each man must be convinced in his own mind. Of course, the only one who can know for sure if God. Have you asked Him about it?

 

[MoreCoffee]

How is E. White much diffeent from the Mormon's prophet, J. Smith?

Joseph Smith - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Joseph Smith, Jr. (December 23, 1805 – June 27, 1844) was an American religious leader and the founder of the Latter Day Saint movement, the predominant branch of which is Mormonism. At age twenty-four Smith published the Book of Mormon, and in the next fourteen years he attracted thousands of followers, established cities and temples, and created a lasting religious culture

According to Richard Bushman, the "signal feature" of Smith's life was "his sense of being guided by revelation".[272] Instead of presenting ideas with logical arguments Smith dictated authoritative revelations and let people decide whether or not to believe.[273] Smith's teachings came primarily through his revelations, which read like scripture: oracular and open to interpretation. Even Smith's followers disagree about the implications of his teachings.[273] Smith and his followers viewed his revelations as being above teachings or opinions,[274] and Smith's actions seemed to indicate that he believed in his revelations as much as his most loyal followers.[275]

The only difference I can see is one of degree; Joseph Smith's teaching is so heterodox that the religion he created is not compliant with the Nicene creed, the Apostle's creed, or the Athanasian Creed. Ellen White's religion appears to be compliant with the Nicene Creed, perhaps with the Athanasian Creed, and maybe with the Apostle's creed.

 

[Stryder06]

I think you are mistaken, Paul did in fact evangelise when he went to Synagogue on the sabbath, and he did the same at other places on the sabbath as the scripture says,

And from thence to Philippi, which is the chief city of that part of Macedonia, and a colony: and we were in that city abiding certain days. And on the sabbath we went out of the city by a river side, where prayer was wont to be made; and we sat down, and spake unto the women which resorted thither. And a certain woman named Lydia, a seller of purple, of the city of Thyatira, which worshipped God, heard us: whose heart the Lord opened, that she attended unto the things which were spoken of Paul. And when she was baptized, and her household, she besought us, saying, If ye have judged me to be faithful to the Lord, come into my house, and abide there. And she constrained us. (Acts 16:12-15)​

Not applicable. The argument is that Paul entered into the Synagogue for the express purpose of evangelizing. This is not supported in scripture. I never said that Paul didn't evangelize. Quite the opposite. Paul was constantly trying to reach the Jewish people with the gospel. To say however, that the reason he entered into the Synagogue on the sabbath, was to evangelize is unfounded. That would actually be the worst time to try to teach people that the law of God had been done away with, if that was what he was doing.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

The only difference I can see is one of degree; Joseph Smith's teaching is so heterodox that the religion he created is not compliant with the Nicene creed, the Apostle's creed, or the Athanasian Creed.

Ellen White's religion appears to be compliant with the Nicene Creed, perhaps with the Athanasian Creed, and maybe with the Apostle's creed.

Doesn't each of those teach a 2nd coming of Christ and ressurection/judgment in the future?

...

 

[MoreCoffee]

If they ARE priests, still, and not converts to SDAism it would need an explanation from them why they were describing her thus. I speculate that any priest saying such a thing about Ellen White would be saying no more than is said of Mohammed by the Church with respect to Islam; that is to say, calling Mohammed a prophet to the Arab people and other Muslims is not an endorsement of Mohammed's message when his message is in error in a similar way anybody who called Ellen White a prophet to SDAs would not be endorsing her message where that message is in error. I am, however, persuaded that calling Ellen White a prophet is itself an error of judgement that no Catholic ought to make.

Well, I know what I've read, and what I've bore witness to. I guess each man must be convinced in his own mind. Of course, the only one who can know for sure if God. Have you asked Him about it?

I don't see any response to the post you replied to in the above post from you.

 

[Stryder06]

I don't see any response to the post you replied to in the above post from you.

Not sure what kind of response you're looking for. I could post a video for you, but I doubt you'd receive it well. You believe no good catholic would admit that she is a prophet. I'm telling you that there are a couple of examples I've learned of, where they have confessed such.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Not applicable. The argument is that Paul entered into the Synagogue for the express purpose of evangelizing. This is not supported in scripture. I never said that Paul didn't evangelize. Quite the opposite. Paul was constantly trying to reach the Jewish people with the gospel. To say however, that the reason he entered into the Synagogue on the sabbath, was to evangelize is unfounded. That would actually be the worst time to try to teach people that the law of God had been done away with, if that was what he was doing.

Paul went to the synagogue to preach the gospel, as the scripture says,

And the brethren immediately sent away Paul and Silas by night unto Berea: who coming thither went into the synagogue of the Jews. These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so. (Acts 17:10-11)​

 

[Stryder06]

Paul went to the synagogue to preach the gospel, as the scripture says,

And the brethren immediately sent away Paul and Silas by night unto Berea: who coming thither went into the synagogue of the Jews. These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so. (Acts 17:10-11)​

Again, I never said he didn't reason with them. I said that to say that he went into the synagogue on the Sabbath to evangelize, is unfounded. It says he went as it was his custom. Don't forget, the jews were in the synagogue on more then just the sabbath.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Doesn't each of those teach a 2nd coming of Christ and ressurection/judgment in the future?

...

I think so, but doesn't the new testament also teach a return of Christ to judge the living and the dead? I am not sure what you're getting at.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Again, I never said he didn't reason with them. I said that to say that he went into the synagogue on the Sabbath to evangelize, is unfounded. It says he went as it was his custom. Don't forget, the jews were in the synagogue on more then just the sabbath.

I think you are avoiding the obvious.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Not sure what kind of response you're looking for. I could post a video for you, but I doubt you'd receive it well. You believe no good catholic would admit that she is a prophet. I'm telling you that there are a couple of examples I've learned of, where they have confessed such.

What about Protestant Denominations other than SDA?


..

 

[MoreCoffee]

Not sure what kind of response you're looking for. I could post a video for you, but I doubt you'd receive it well. You believe no good catholic would admit that she is a prophet. I'm telling you that there are a couple of examples I've learned of, where they have confessed such.

How about citing your sources so we can check the claim that Catholic priests said Ellen White is a [true] prophet?