Ellen White on the Sabbath

[MoreCoffee]

Well Cribstyl, the evidence is on the table and cannot be denied but I suspect that Stryder06 might find some way to deny it.

 

[Stryder06]

It was Paul's custom, not an obligation of a law that Paul was required to keep. Just a custom, a habit, a practise that he had. That's significant.

I'm sorry but the custom is tied to the sabbath. What gets me is how you can't see that.

 

[Stryder06]

Well Cribstyl, the evidence is on the table and cannot be denied but I suspect that Stryder06 might find some way to deny it.

The indoctrination runs deep

 

[Stryder06]

You're spot on MoreCofee, but SDA will not admit what the mission was.. They rather that law abiding Jew commentary.

It is what it is.

Stryder and most SDA have to misinterpret what the book of Acts proves line upon line. The church of Antioch was the base from which Paul was sent to evangelize the Jews and the Gentiles. The narrative is consistant about the work that Jesus called Paul to do everywhere the Holy Spirit led him to go.

Act 9:15 But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel:
Act 9:16 For I will shew him how great things he must suffer for my name's sake.

No misrepresentation. I am fully aware that Paul was evangelizing the Jews. What I don't see the scripture say is that Paul went to the synagogue on the Sabbath for the express purpose of evangelizing. That's your spin on it because you start off assuming that Paul was no longer keeping the sabbath.

 

[bugkiller]

I surely missed the verse that says Paul went to worship on the sabbath. Can anyone help me find that verse? Maybe it is just the translation I use.

bugkiller

 

[Stryder06]

I surely missed the verse that says Paul went to worship on the sabbath. Can anyone help me find that verse? Maybe it is just the translation I use.

bugkiller

It's right next to the verse where God says the sabbath is no longer his Holy day.

 

[bugkiller]

I am sorry but one can not justify themselves on another or just an idea. I am not a doctor or a nurse. Is Lysimachus ? I mean no accusation. The point is a personal application question. The point is avoided - dodged by bringing others to the discussion. So do not try to convict me by the actions of others. Also do not try to prove the point by dodging the personal application of Scripture. No one can excuse themselves from parts of the law by showing exceptions applying to selected instances not applying to them.

This means no one can obligate me to the law because the law was not given nor the law does apply to me.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

It's right next to the verse where God says the sabbath is no longer his Holy day.

Escellent Stryder. Quote it for us.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

I want to see proof that Paul was keeping the sabbath. Merely attending the synagogue is not proof of sabbath observance. It is only proof of synsgogue attendance.

bugkiller

 

[MoreCoffee]

I want to see proof that Paul was keeping the sabbath. Merely attending the synagogue is not proof of sabbath observance. It is only proof of synagogue attendance.

bugkiller

Not only attending the synagogue but also preaching the gospel there and at other places on the sabbath to Jewish people and gentile-convert people. The point is that Paul preached the gospel in synagogues and wherever he found people gathered together because he wanted them to hear the gospel and to believe it. Stryder06 seems unwilling to agree despite the many passages already cited and quoted to show it to be true.

 

[Stryder06]

Not only attending the synagogue but also preaching the gospel there and at other places on the sabbath to Jewish people and gentile-convert people. The point is that Paul preached the gospel in synagogues and wherever he found people gathered together because he wanted them to hear the gospel and to believe it. Stryder06 seems unwilling to agree despite the many passages already cited and quoted to show it to be true.

I do not disagree that Paul was teaching the gospel to Jews. I already stated that I know that he was evangelizing. What I said is that there is no proof that he was not keeping the sabbath. Trying to argue that he wasn't keeping the sabbath because the bible doesn't say he was is illogical. The greatest argument for Paul keeping the sabbath is the fact that the scriptures never say he didn't.

 

[MoreCoffee]

I do not disagree that Paul was teaching the gospel to Jews. I already stated that I know that he was evangelizing. What I said is that there is no proof that he was not keeping the sabbath.

The above is an irrelevance. Paul may (or may not) have kept sabbath among Jews. That is hardly important. He kept temple vows in Jerusalem but we don't recommend the same be done by Christians today. The idea that because person x in the bible did action y and therefore we all ought to do action y ourselves is not very sound. Sometimes it works but most of the time it doesn't work. So, please, no more about what you think Paul may have been doing on the sabbaths when he was in synagogue. We already know he was preaching the gospel on sabbaths when he was visiting synagogue and that was the point we'd made before and that you denied. Now we can move on since you have conceded that he did it just as we claimed he did.

Trying to argue that he wasn't keeping the sabbath because the bible doesn't say he was is illogical.

The above is a red herring. We don't care if he was 'keeping' sabbath or not. The obvious thing that he was doing is preaching the gospel and the gospel teaches that WE do not need to keep sabbath or keep kosher or keep the festivals or keep any law as a way to gain acceptance with God or as a means of gaining entry to heaven. Keeping the law is a burden that we're not interested in bearing if you want to carry it go ahead, it will gain you nothing towards eternal life. I hope it helps form a good character in those who choose to do it, but I have doubts on that given the amount of prevarication I've seen in SDA claims on GT.

The greatest argument for Paul keeping the sabbath is the fact that the scriptures never say he didn't.

Uh huh ... and the greatest argument that Moses was a Martian is that the scriptures never say he wasn't! What a weak and silly argument you make.

 

[mmksparbud]

The above is an irrelevance. Paul may (or may not) have kept sabbath among Jews. That is hardly important. He kept temple vows in Jerusalem but we don't recommend the same be done by Christians today. The idea that because person x in the bible did action y and therefore we all ought to do action y ourselves is not very sound. Sometimes it works but most of the time it doesn't work. So, please, no more about what you think Paul may have been doing on the sabbaths when he was in synagogue. We already know he was preaching the gospel on sabbaths when he was visiting synagogue and that was the point we'd made before and that you denied. Now we can move on since you have conceded that he did it just as we claimed he did.The above is a red herring. We don't care if he was 'keeping' sabbath or not. The obvious thing that he was doing is preaching the gospel and the gospel teaches that WE do not need to keep sabbath or keep kosher or keep the festivals or keep any law as a way to gain acceptance with God or as a means of gaining entry to heaven. Keeping the law is a burden that we're not interested in bearing if you want to carry it go ahead, it will gain you nothing towards eternal life. I hope it helps form a good character in those who choose to do it, but I have doubts on that given the amount of prevarication I've seen in SDA claims on GT.Uh huh ... and the greatest argument that Moses was a Martian is that the scriptures never say he wasn't! What a weak and silly argument you make.

Now, Coffee--you've beedn advocating that we do as the apostles did, so how come now you say we shouldn't??
Now--if someone went to a synogoue on the sabbath, or any other day, and stood up and was saying that we no longer need to keep the sabbath---every Jew in the place would have grabbed them and stoned them on the spot. And in each synagogue that they did that. Just how long do you think someone would last in your church if they stood up and said we must keep the sabbath??---They would be escorted out, pronto.
The apostles were not standing up in synagogue saying that we no longer need to keep the sabbath--there would have been no apostles left!! Your whole arguement is a red herring and really silly, to boot!! (That word -silly--gets used too often around here, it makes me see red).

 

[bbbbbbb]

Now, Coffee--you've beedn advocating that we do as the apostles did, so how come now you say we shouldn't??
Now--if someone went to a synogoue on the sabbath, or any other day, and stood up and was saying that we no longer need to keep the sabbath---every Jew in the place would have grabbed them and stoned them on the spot. And in each synagogue that they did that. Just how long do you think someone would last in your church if they stood up and said we must keep the sabbath??---They would be escorted out, pronto.
The apostles were not standing up in synagogue saying that we no longer need to keep the sabbath--there would have been no apostles left!! Your whole arguement is a red herring and really silly, to boot!! (That word -silly--gets used too often around here, it makes me see red).

Strangely enough, the last time I read my Bible the gospel was not about the Sabbath. Strangely enough, it is about Jesus Christ. So, to assert that Paul was preaching about the Sabbath (pro or con) in the synagogues is absurd when, in fact, we all agree that he preached the gospel.

I do understand, however, that your denomination has made Sabbath-keeping part and parcel with the gospel. If so, then you might have a need to re-examine the Bible, especially the New Testament.

 

[mmksparbud]

We understand the new testament very well. We never said keeping the sabbath will save you--only love for God through His grace are we saved. But according to Coffee up there--the gospel is not keeping the sabbath, or the other feast days or any other law.
How long do you think you'd last if you went to a synagogue and preached that? Yes he preached the gospel---that Jesus, whom they crucified, is alive, at the right hand of God and was the lamb and through Him we are saved--that is the gospel---which was enough to enrage the Jewish leaders anyway.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Now, Coffee--you've been advocating that we do as the apostles did, so how come now you say we shouldn't??

Now--if someone went to a synagogue on the sabbath, or any other day, and stood up and was saying that we no longer need to keep the sabbath---every Jew in the place would have grabbed them and stoned them on the spot. And in each synagogue that they did that.

Yes, just like they wanted to stone Jesus and just like they wanted to kill Paul and Peter and the other apostles and Christians. Something about the gospel was getting them very upset all around the Roman empire.

Just how long do you think someone would last in your church if they stood up and said we must keep the sabbath??---They would be escorted out, pronto.

We get nutters coming in and telling us the pope is the anti-Christ and others tossing around tracts and some who try to break open the tabernacle and some who want to break statues. There's no shortage of evangelical fervour leading to physical attacks on Catholic churches and Catholic people. But we do not return the insult in kind. No Catholics I know go to evangelical churches and attack the baptistery or the pew bibles or any such thing. So I think that if a SDA came in to preach Saturday observance we'd just quietly call the police and have them removed.

The apostles were not standing up in synagogue saying that we no longer need to keep the sabbath--there would have been no apostles left!!

The apostles preached the gospel and the good news for Jews in the gospel is that they don't need to keep the law to get God to love them and hear their prayers. It's a simple lesson that SDAs ought to take to heart.

Your whole argument is a red herring and really silly, to boot!! (That word -silly--gets used too often around here, it makes me see red).

Then don't use it if it upsets you so.

 

[dollarsbill]

I do not disagree that Paul was teaching the gospel to Jews. I already stated that I know that he was evangelizing. What I said is that there is no proof that he was not keeping the sabbath. Trying to argue that he wasn't keeping the sabbath because the bible doesn't say he was is illogical. The greatest argument for Paul keeping the sabbath is the fact that the scriptures never say he didn't.

Paul executed those who worked on the Sabbath??? I say NO!!!!! and neither do you. So why are you preaching this?

 

[mmksparbud]

Paul executed those who worked on the Sabbath??? I say NO!!!!! and neither do you. So why are you preaching this?

I fancied myself to have a sense of humor and to be relatively intelligent---this however, I don't gets

 

[mmksparbud]

Yes, just like they wanted to stone Jesus and just like they wanted to kill Paul and Peter and the other apostles and Christians. Something about the gospel was getting them very upset all around the Roman empire.We get nutters coming in and telling us the pope is the anti-Christ and others tossing around tracts and some who try to break open the tabernacle and some who want to break statues. There's no shortage of evangelical fervour leading to physical attacks on Catholic churches and Catholic people. But we do not return the insult in kind. No Catholics I know go to evangelical churches and attack the baptistery or the pew bibles or any such thing. So I think that if a SDA came in to preach Saturday observance we'd just quietly call the police and have them removed.The apostles preached the gospel and the good news for Jews in the gospel is that they don't need to keep the law to get God to love them and hear their prayers. It's a simple lesson that SDAs ought to take to heart.Then don't use it if it upsets you so.

You'd quietly call the police and have them removed---Well, of course you would! Which is my point. They wanted to stone Jesus for saying He was the Son of God and the apostles for saying the same thing.
And I am sorry if people are doing all that stuff to catholic churches--we were taught to respect all churches, synagogues and the like. I was with catholics as a child and they were very nice to me--well, ok, the old man was the first to molest me, but that would have happened if he had been an SDA--he was just evil. I was with nuns, also, I think some sort of orphanage when mom couldn't take care of me. They were nice to me, too. And no, no one molested me there!
We keep saying keeping the sabbath will not save you--but nobody believes us!--It's grace, it's our love for God. The commandments merely tell us how we are to love God and man--I mean, if God wants something from us, He has to tell us, 'cause we can't read His mind!

 

[MamaZ]

I do not disagree that Paul was teaching the gospel to Jews. I already stated that I know that he was evangelizing. What I said is that there is no proof that he was not keeping the sabbath. Trying to argue that he wasn't keeping the sabbath because the bible doesn't say he was is illogical. The greatest argument for Paul keeping the sabbath is the fact that the scriptures never say he didn't.

Well when you read the full context of Pauls letters He does not preach the sabbath. So why would someone preach something that even the Apostles don't teach? How logical is that?