Ellen White: Meat eating weakens moral powers

tall73

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Over two years ago there was a thread looking at statements by Ellen White regarding the Israelite diet. This thread is a more focused part 2, looking at one aspect--the claim that meat eating weaken's moral powers.

Here are the statements:

The Signs of the Times, January 6, 1876, Art. A

God did not withhold meat from the Hebrews in the wilderness simply to show his authority, but for their good, that they might preserve physical and moral strength. He knew that the use of animal food strengthens the animal passions and enfeebles the intellect. He knew that the gratification of the appetite of the Hebrews for flesh-meats, would weaken their moral powers, and induce such an irritable disposition that the vast army would become insubordinate, that they would lose the high sense of their moral obligations, and refuse to be controlled by the wise laws of Jehovah. Violence and rebellion would exist among them, making it impossible for them to be a pure and happy people in the land of Canaan. God knew what was best for the children of Israel, therefore he deprived them in a great measure of flesh-meats. Satan tempted them to consider this unjust and cruel. He caused them to lust after forbidden things, because he saw that through the indulgence of perverted appetite they would become carnally-minded and could be easily brought to do his will; the lower organs would be strengthened, while the intellectual and moral powers would be weakened.

Councils for the Church, 228

Upon their settlement in Canaan, the Israelites were permitted the use of animal food, but under careful restrictions which tended to lessen the evil results. The use of swine's flesh was prohibited, as also of other animals and of birds and fish whose flesh was pronounced unclean. Of the meats permitted, the eating of the fat and the blood was strictly forbidden. Only such animals could be used for food as were in good condition. No creature that was torn, that had died of itself, or from which the blood had not been carefully drained, could be used as food. By departing from the plan divinely appointed for their diet, the Israelites suffered great loss. They desired a flesh diet, and they reaped its results. They did not reach God's ideal of character or fulfill His purpose. -CCH 228​

As can be seen from the above, Ellen White indicated that eating meat reduced moral power among the Israelites. She indicated they departed from the plan appointed for their diet, and suffered loss, not reaching God's ideal of character or fulfilling His purpose.


However, these claims do not match up with Scripture

God indicated the Israelites may eat meat, according to the blessing of the Lord.

Deuteronomy 12:15 “However, you may slaughter and eat meat within all your gates, whatever your heart desires, according to the blessing of the Lord your God which He has given you; the unclean and the clean may eat of it, of the gazelle and the deer alike.​

God said that if they were faithful He would bless the Israelites with grass so that the Israelites might eat the livestock and be filled.

Deuteronomy 11:15 And I will send grass in your fields for your livestock, that you may eat and be filled.’​

God required the Israelites to eat meat in the Passover.

Exodus 12:8 8 Then they shall eat the flesh on that night; roasted in fire, with unleavened bread and with bitter herbs they shall eat it. (NKJV)​

God gave regular portions of the sacrifices to the priests.

Leviticus 7:31 And the priest shall burn the fat on the altar, but the breast shall be Aaron’s and his sons’. 32 Also the right thigh you shall give to the priest as a heave offering from the sacrifices of your peace offerings. 33 He among the sons of Aaron, who offers the blood of the peace offering and the fat, shall have the right thigh for his part. 34 For the breast of the wave offering and the thigh of the heave offering I have taken from the children of Israel, from the sacrifices of their peace offerings, and I have given them to Aaron the priest and to his sons from the children of Israel by a statute forever.’ ”​

God outlined the peace offering which involved eating meat from the animal.

Leviticus 19:5 ‘And if you offer a sacrifice of a peace offering to the Lord, you shall offer it of your own free will. 6 It shall be eaten the same day you offer it, and on the next day. And if any remains until the third day, it shall be burned in the fire.​

God provided Elijah meat.

1Ki 17:6 And the ravens brought him bread and meat in the morning, and bread and meat in the evening, and he drank from the brook.​

Jesus provided fish to His disciples, and to the multitudes.

Joh 21:12 Jesus saith unto them, Come and dine. And none of the disciples durst ask him, Who art thou? knowing that it was the Lord. 13 Jesus then cometh, and taketh bread, and giveth them, and fish likewise.​

Jesus ate the Passover, and had His disciples arrange for it, and eat it with Him.

Luke 22:14 When the hour had come, He sat down, and the twelve apostles with Him. 15 Then He said to them, “With fervent desire I have desired to eat this Passover with you before I suffer​

Jesus fed the multitude with fish.

Matthew 15:35 So He commanded the multitude to sit down on the ground. 36 And He took the seven loaves and the fish and gave thanks, broke them and gave them to His disciples; and the disciples gave to the multitude. 37 So they all ate and were filled, and they took up seven large baskets full of the fragments that were left.​

Jesus called a fish a good gift, which it would not be if it weakened moral powers.

Luk 11:11 If a son shall ask bread of any of you that is a father, will he give him a stone? or if he ask a fish, will he for a fish give him a serpent? 12 Or if he shall ask an egg, will he offer him a scorpion? 13 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?​

It is unbiblical to claim that Jesus would give food to people that weakened their moral powers, and had "evil results."
 
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tall73

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The people are to eat of the firstlings of the herds, or, if the place is too far convert the tithe into money and use the money to buy sheep, or oxen, that are eaten before the Lord. And they are to remember to invite the Levite to eat with them.

Deuteronomy 14:22 “You shall truly tithe all the increase of your grain that the field produces year by year. 23 And you shall eat before the Lord your God, in the place where He chooses to make His name abide, the tithe of your grain and your new wine and your oil, of the firstborn of your herds and your flocks, that you may learn to fear the Lord your God always. 24 But if the journey is too long for you, so that you are not able to carry the tithe, or if the place where the Lord your God chooses to put His name is too far from you, when the Lord your God has blessed you, 25 then you shall exchange it for money, take the money in your hand, and go to the place which the Lord your God chooses. 26 And you shall spend that money for whatever your heart desires: for oxen or sheep, for wine or similar drink, for whatever your heart desires; you shall eat there before the Lord your God, and you shall rejoice, you and your household. 27 You shall not forsake the Levite who is within your gates, for he has no part nor inheritance with you.
 
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While I don't agree that meat is bad. The idea that it may make people more aggressive and can contribute to negative health aspects (cancer, heart disease, etc.) is still being debated. Though as you pointed out it doesn't appear to be Biblical.

If you not taking the subject too seriously, here is a cute video loosely related to the subject.

 
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bbbbbbb

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One of the really peculiar aspects of SDA dietary law is that it has absolutely nothing to do with the TEN COMMANDMENTS which the SDA believe are the ONLY commandments God expects people to obey. Also, it is only very tenuously related to any other dietary law, biblical or otherwise. It is not even vegan, although it is closer to that than the OT dietary commandments.
 
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tall73

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Deuteronomy 15:19 “All the firstborn males that come from your herd and your flock you shall sanctify to the Lord your God; you shall do no work with the firstborn of your herd, nor shear the firstborn of your flock. 20 You and your household shall eat it before the Lord your God year by year in the place which the Lord chooses
 
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Sophia7

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One of the really peculiar aspects of SDA dietary law is that it has absolutely nothing to do with the TEN COMMANDMENTS which the SDA believe are the ONLY commandments God expects people to obey. Also, it is only very tenuously related to any other dietary law, biblical or otherwise. It is not even vegan, although it is closer to that than the OT dietary commandments.
Except they place their dietary standards in the category of "natural law" so that they can claim them as binding on Christians today as part of their "health message," in addition to the "moral law" of the ten commandments. (Those categories, of course, are not biblical.) But one of their dietary standards is vegetarianism, which was never commanded by the law. On the contrary, meat-eating was commanded in the OT. So they don't really have a leg to stand on with that either.

Veganism is not as widespread as vegetarianism in Adventism, but it came from Ellen White's teachings as well. Here is an example of a statement by EGW that contradicts the words of Jesus:
__________

Would the lightning and thunder of Sinai arouse this church? Would they arouse you, fathers and mothers, to commence the work of reformation in your own houses? You should be teaching your children. You should be instructing them how to shun the vices and corruptions of this age. Instead of this, many are studying how to get something good to eat. You place upon your tables butter, eggs, and meat, and your children partake of them. They are fed with the very things that will excite their animal passions, and then you come to meeting and ask God to bless and save your children. How high do your prayers go? You have a work to do first. When you have done all for your children which God has left for you to do then you can with confidence claim the special help that God has promised to give you. {2T 361.2}
Contrast this with what Jesus said in Luke 11:9-13 about eggs and fish:
__________

9 “So I say to you, ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you. 10 For everyone who asks, receives; and he who seeks, finds; and to him who knocks, it will be opened. 11 Now suppose one of you fathers is asked by his son for a fish; he will not give him a snake instead of a fish, will he? 12 Or if he is asked for an egg, he will not give him a scorpion, will he? 13 If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to those who ask Him?”
 
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bbbbbbb

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Except they place their dietary standards in the category of "natural law" so that they can claim them as binding on Christians today as part of their "health message," in addition to the "moral law" of the ten commandments. (Those categories, of course, are not biblical.) But one of their dietary standards is vegetarianism, which was never commanded by the law. On the contrary, meat-eating was commanded in the OT. So they don't really have a leg to stand on with that either.

Veganism is not as widespread as vegetarianism in Adventism, but it came from Ellen White's teachings as well. Here is an example of a statement by EGW that contradicts the words of Jesus:
__________


Contrast this with what Jesus said in Luke 11:9-13 about eggs and fish:
__________
Quite true. For a denomination which outwardly prides itself on its scrupolosity regarding the Bible, this is much more than inconsistent.
https://www.bing.com/search?q=scrup...53e-eb88-fb9c6c3135ff"+tphint:"f"&FORM=DEPNAV
 
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tall73

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Also, it is only very tenuously related to any other dietary law, biblical or otherwise.

Yeah it is hard to reconcile with the Scriptures:

Deuteronomy 12:20 “When the Lord your God enlarges your border as He has promised you, and you say, ‘Let me eat meat,’ because you long to eat meat, you may eat as much meat as your heart desires.
 
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bbbbbbb

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Yeah it is hard to reconcile with the Scriptures:

Deuteronomy 12:20 “When the Lord your God enlarges your border as He has promised you, and you say, ‘Let me eat meat,’ because you long to eat meat, you may eat as much meat as your heart desires.
As time goes on, it seems increasingly apparent to me that the SDA is much more closely aligned to Victorian culture than to the Bible.
 
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I am in Iowa - the heart of America's beef and pork world. I enjoy them both, but like lamb, as well.
try an Indian sandwich shop or an Arabic falafel shop.
 
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bbbbbbb

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try an Indian sandwich shop or an Arabic falafel shop.
Much easier said than done here. Most of the Indian restaurants here are vegan, although some do serve lamb, and there are no Arabic restaurants at all. We have a network of Greek restaurants one of which used to have lamb, but no longer.
 
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One of the really peculiar aspects of SDA dietary law is that it has absolutely nothing to do with the TEN COMMANDMENTS which the SDA believe are the ONLY commandments God expects people to obey. Also, it is only very tenuously related to any other dietary law, biblical or otherwise. It is not even vegan, although it is closer to that than the OT dietary commandments.

That is also a good point.
 
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Much easier said than done here. Most of the Indian restaurants here are vegan, although some do serve lamb, and there are no Arabic restaurants at all. We have a network of Greek restaurants one of which used to have lamb, but no longer.

Do they have gyros? Gyros are a roast of beef and lamb.
 
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One of the really peculiar aspects of SDA dietary law is that it has absolutely nothing to do with the TEN COMMANDMENTS which the SDA believe are the ONLY commandments God expects people to obey. Also, it is only very tenuously related to any other dietary law, biblical or otherwise. It is not even vegan, although it is closer to that than the OT dietary commandments.
thou shalt not kill. applies to yourself. people kill themselves with food all the time.
 
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Veganism is not as widespread as vegetarianism in Adventism, but it came from Ellen White's teachings as well. Here is an example of a statement by EGW that contradicts the words of Jesus:
Veganism has only caught on as Buddhism and Hinduism have caught on in the West.
 
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thou shalt not kill. applies to yourself. people kill themselves with food all the time.
That is quite true. I have known people who, in their interest for excellent health, have adopted various popular diets and then died prematurely. I have a good friend who adopted a vegetarian diet and then suffered a massive stroke and is now in a nursing home, much before the time most people enter these institutions.
 
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