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Here. I'll help you out.
Here is your assertion:
I once again ask you, where is your scriptural evidence to support your assertion?
Hmmm. so you want us to imagine that after Paul saying
1 Thess 4: 15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep.
Paul then said
2 Tim 4
6 For I am already being poured out like a drink offering, and the time for my departure is near. 7 I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith. 8 Now there is in store for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous Judge, will award to me on that day—and not only to me, but also to all who have longed for his appearing.
Imagine that after Jonah said "YET FORTY DAYS and Ninevah will be destroyed"...
Jonah then said
Jonah 4: 1 "But it displeased Jonah exceedingly, and he became angry. 2 So he prayed to the Lord, and said, “Ah, Lord, was not this what I said when I was still in my country? Therefore I fled previously to Tarshish; for I know that You are a gracious and merciful God, slow to anger and abundant in lovingkindness, One who relents from doing harm. 3 Therefore now, O Lord, please take my life"
Imagine that after Moses reports that God said " 8 So I have come down to deliver them out of the hand of the Egyptians, and to bring them up from that land to a good and large land, to a land flowing with milk and honey, to the place of the Canaanites " Ex 3:8
And then after that we find this
Num 14:
22 because all these men who have seen My glory and the signs which I did in Egypt and in the wilderness, and have put Me to the test now these ten times, and have not heeded My voice, 23 they certainly shall not see the land of which I swore to their fathers, nor shall any of those who rejected Me see it
28 Say to them, ‘As I live,’ says the Lord, ‘just as you have spoken in My hearing, so I will do to you: 29 The carcasses of you who have complained against Me shall fall in this wilderness, all of you who were numbered, according to your entire number, from twenty years old and above.
===========================
The very thing that same folks claim - could never happen
Did you find one of those texts "unclear"??
Finally! ok then no need to keep ignoring those texts regarding God's blessings and promises and the conditional nature of prophecy that we see in ... now what was that text again.??
Jer 18
6 “Can I not, O house of Israel, deal with you as this potter does?” declares the Lord. “Behold, like the clay in the potter’s hand, so are you in My hand, O house of Israel. 7 At one moment I might speak concerning a nation or concerning a kingdom to uproot, to pull down, or to destroy it; 8 if that nation against which I have spoken turns from its evil, I will relent concerning the calamity I planned to bring on it. 9 Or at another moment I might speak concerning a nation or concerning a kingdom to build up or to plant it; 10 if it does evil in My sight by not obeying My voice, then I will think better of the good with which I had promised to bless it. 11 So now then, speak to the men of Judah and against the inhabitants of Jerusalem saying, ‘Thus says the Lord, “Behold, I am fashioning calamity against you
?? Why would God give the "land flowing with milk and honey" prophecy to Israel when He knew they would die in the desert?
?? why would God give the "40 days and Ninevah will be destroyed" prophecy when He knew that in 40 days they would not be destroyed.
So then you "are" reading the Jer 18 text... or just ignoring it more??
At this point I find your logic illusive.
hun?? not having the second coming in the 1800s did not "impact anyone"??
seriously??
Maybe the OP should have included "please be serious in your responses"
Angels are messengers sent from God. The unfallen ones, anyway. Mow---are the end time prophecies and this worm thing the only 2 things that bothered you, or are there more? What denomination are you now? Sorry---my husband used to call me Sherlock due to my curiosity.
Niniveh - Jeremiah content done right. They repented.
Israel - they did not die in the desert. OBVIOUSLY. Israel DID enter the promised land.
Impact - what kind of an impact did it have? Globally? None. Locally? Tell me.
I am talking about the prophecy failing and not the fact that the 2nd coming didn't occur. Am I so hard to understand or are you doing this on purpose.
Look, if we apply Jeremiah conditionality all the time then God's warning about false prophets is reduntant as any false prophecy can be declared conditional.
Israel is more than just those who died. If Israel had died in the desert we wouldn't probably know about israel.What do you mean?? Israel most certainly did die in the dessert---all those over a certain age ( I think 20) died. And not even Moses was allowed to enter.
No need to be sorry
No denomination. I gave it all to Jesus and He didn't show me any denomination I should seek out.
Things bothering me? Actually there was QUITE a number of things.
You know, I actually started looking into egw when I was in the process of my way out. I didn't know about the worm prophecy, it's not like its being discussed on a daily basis.
The thing is, I grew up in the church and egw was a very important element. I would even come and say THE most important element. At least thats how I was introduced to her. It was basically canon. I began to "leave" the church because many things just didn't feel right. The fact that the congregations I attended were sort of horrible might be circumstantial but it certainly didn't help.
Overall I was quite disappointed when I read myself into "allegations" against her. At first I thought this cannot be true, it's certainly made up, she cannot have written this or that. But alas, you can check her writings online, I think it's white estate. That was almost the final straw.
A very minor example: you have that patriarchs and prophets book. There is actually different versions. That alone is not a problem. In one book you have Jacob fighting and talking. And in the revised version he isnt talking, more in line with the bible. Needless to say, only the revised version is available for purchase afaik. That's crazy imo, why would the writings of a prophet not be made available anymore, especially if they provide more insight than the Bible itself.
But I digress. At a certain point I prayed to Jesus to please show me within a week (yes, that was part of my prayer) about egw, so that I would know. A couple of days later He showed me the obelisk on the grave. I took it as an answer.
Israel is more than just those who died. If Israel had died in the desert we wouldn't probably know about israel.
Obelisk in the grave? Are you serious? That was as simple a marker as one could get back then. It doesn't have the meaning to those back then, that it does now. They were used in ancient Egypt and the Greeks gave them their name. It represented the bird of death--and an end of the world omen. Sometimes, the Sun God. The Greeks changed that to a symbol of the Phoenix. It was not a known connection---They are all over the country---including the Washington monument. There are even Jewish ones that depict ancient Jewish stories on them. You were looking for excuses to leave, and found them---I did the same thing, only I knew these things meant nothing--like the obelisk---I refused to use an excuse. I wanted out and told God so--no phony excuses. I also could find no other denomination from God, that in itself told me where I had to go. Ii came down to the bible, God and me and this is the only one that fit in.
Not entirely true.
But first of all, I didn't leave because of the obelisk. Like I said I asked God to show ME and God knew I would associate the obelisk with evil.
The obelisk on the grave is of course debatable. BUT highly problematic in itself.
But they did die. Only the "New Israel" was allowed in--none of the old---except Caleb.
Only if your looking for an excuse. The fact that God has given you nothing else, is quite telling in itself.
Niniveh - Jeremiah content done right. They repented.
Israel - they did not die in the desert. OBVIOUSLY. Israel DID enter the promised land.
True -- Jeremiah 18 "conditional prophecy" says that the calamity/judgment stated will not be applied if they repent. But the actual text of Jonah's message does not say "UNLESS you repent" - we simply "know" that is the case because of Jeremiah 18.
Play on words. Moses' hearers did not get from his message "the carcasses of all here who are older then 20 will die with me in the wilderness" - but they most certainly WERE told of that future 1 year later when they pulled back from Canaan. And when they were told - they tried to flee to Canaan -- at which point they suffered defeat.
They were snagged by the "conditional nature" of prophecy - even though Moses did not say in Egypt "Going to Canaan only IF you comply the whole time"
Sorry, accidentally clicked post.
What I was trying to say, as a small child I heard about freemasonry and it being evil. Guess where! I think I was maybe ten when an older lady discussed the topic with my mum and me. Lol!
The internet is relatively new and I had never heard about freemasonry until I went to the movies with a pal to see "from hell", lol.
My pal never heard of them before, so I initiated him into that secret knowldege. Lol! I must actually smile when I think about all this.
Btw I think it was highly unresponsible to tell a child about them and even nowadays I question that whole n.o.s. knowledge. Doesn't really do any good and ignorance can truly be bliss at times. Still the sda is doing some work to enlighten people about it (w.veith for example and probably numerous other pastors).
But back to the matter at hand, the thing is the obelisk is a phallic symbol. You got the washington monument, the obelisk in st.peters square etc. Is it truly evil? Could be (personally I don't care, not too much of a squishy person).
Egw had some masonic friends or at least knew those people. Chances are people were aware of those symbols at her time. I don't know if she knew or not but she chose the obelisk over the cross, its not even nice, occult or not occult.
And here we go again, she claimed to have received countless visions over some tiny details and yet here we are, an occult symbol on her grave. Hidden in plane sight?
Funny thing, you should have a look at jw's founders grave - that one takes the cake, lol!
A new star wars movie is announced to hit the theatres next summer.
I tell little toad we will go watch the next star wars movie next summer if you get promoted to next class.
And
I tell little toad we will go watch the next star wars movie next summer.
The first sentence is conditional.
True. The condition is right in there ... in the statement.
But in the case of Moses -- no condition for going to Canaan.
in the case of Jonah - no condition for being destroyed.
We "infer the condition" because we know that Jeremiah 18 informs us of the conditional nature of prophecy regarding either a blessing or a curse.
As for "burning down the house" in your example - something out of your control if someone else burns the house down. But for God all of it is under his control -- within his own choice to allow for free will decisions. And it is because of that He can say in Matthew 23 "How I wanted... but you would not" and he can say in Isaiah 5 "What more was I supposed to do that I have not already done??"
Indeed!
But the worm prophecy did not contain a blessing or curse.
Well we know the second coming will happen, we know the wicked will be destroyed .. that the event will happen is not conditional.
2 Peter 3: 12 looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be destroyed by burning, and the elements will melt with intense heat!
But "looking for AND HASTENING" the second coming makes the timing conditional.
It was certain that God would take Israel from Egypt to Canaan and make them a nation - -but the timing was conditional. Moses never preached a message in Egypt of the form "come and die in the wilderness with me". As we all know.
Jeremiah 18 matters.
You make the assumption that the 2nd coming is not a blessing to the saints.
It should be admitted that not every Christian makes that same assumption.
as was pointed out here.
2 Peter 3: 12 looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be destroyed by burning, and the elements will melt with intense heat!
stick to scripture - and the end of the discussion is predictable.
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