Elizabeth Warren says she wants to eliminate Electoral College

[OldWiseGuy]

Never mind... The question I was going to ask you would have taken this thread way off topic, so with that in mind, I'm editing my post and removing the initial question I was going to ask you to answer.

You're a tease.

 

[Veritas]

The system was intended to give more power to the slave-holding states.

I'm seeing this myth all over the twitterverse, so clearly it's leftwing talking point.

 

[durangodawood]

...You do if you want my support for OPOV. If you don't need or don't care about that support, then yeah, you don't need to do anything.

It should have been clear that "I dont have to" was because I had a good reasoned position why (which I went right on to present)..... and not because of how much you personally do or dont matter in the grand scheme of usa politics.

It should have been so clear, that in fact I think your just messing with me.

 

[durangodawood]

Only so long as the power structures that be support it as a right.....

That doesnt distinguish it from any other right.

Just when I manage to explain how equal voting power is right, you switch to: well are there really such things as rights??? Nice.

 

[Veritas]

Obviously, if the EC was benefiting the democratic party, there would be no call to eliminate it. Do the left really thing they can hold onto power forever?

 

[durangodawood]

Obviously, if the EC was benefiting the democratic party, there would be no call to eliminate it. Do the left really thing they can hold onto power forever?

Probly right. But we're capable of reasoning on principle, right?

You can address the principles that are being discussed.

 

[USincognito]

Be that as it may, it has the practical benefit of ensuring that oversized major metros don’t drown out everyone else.

Yeah! How dare actual human beings in "oversized" major metros get representation if it means those poor bison and cattle in Wyoming don't!

 

[durangodawood]

Yeah! How dare actual human beings get representation when if it means those poor bison and cattle in Wyoming don't!

One acre, one vote!

 

[USincognito]

Seems they're tired of winning to popular vote but losing to the electorates. The electoral college is to prevent the Tyranny of the Majority.

How dare the majority think they should win an election!

That said, I'd be willing to consider doing away with the EC if we had a solid National voter ID to ensure that only legal citizens are voting.

How is voter ID going to stop the real source of fraud - ballot by mail?

 

[98cwitr]

How dare the majority think they should win an election!



How is voter ID going to stop the real source of fraud - ballot by mail?

Worth a read: Tyranny Of A Majority - A James Madison View

By not doing mail-in ballots.

 

[Resha Caner]

It should have been clear that "I dont have to" was because I had a good reasoned position why (which I went right on to present)..... and not because of how much you personally do or dont matter in the grand scheme of usa politics.

It should have been so clear, that in fact I think your just messing with me.

That doesnt distinguish it from any other right.

Just when I manage to explain how equal voting power is right, you switch to: well are there really such things as rights??? Nice.

You're completely misrepresenting what I'm saying. Rather than assume you're being devious (people do assume that sometimes ) I'm going to assume you just don't understand me.

You haven't established anything. Not one single thing. All I know is your opinion, and from there you seem to do a lot talking past me.

So just start over (if you're willing). What point are you trying to make?

 

[USincognito]

I rather think that article writer is guilty of historical revisionism, particularly since she attempts to hang slavery on the Electoral College as though it were a primary intention rather than the fact that the elector numbers by state would have been by the same formula regardless of the 3/5 compromise.

The fact is that every state at that time considered itself an independent state. There was zero possibility that there could have been anything other than some kind of state-level vote for president--no state at the time was going to put its future into the hands of any other state. No state representative at the Constitutional Convention was going home with less federal power for his state than any other state had.

Therefore, all elections provided by the Constitution are state-level elections, including elections for the president: The states decide at the state level by state representatives who the state wants as president.

I get where your coming from but, and I'm really just tossing this out there, after the failure of the Articles to produce an effective supra-national government the states seemed to realize that they needed more robust federal system. Combine that with the argumentative victory of the Federalists, and I can see it as being something more than just relinquishing sovereignty.

 

[USincognito]

.We are not a pure democracy by design,

Since this keeps being brought up, I feel the need to point out that even if we didn't have the electoral college, we still would not be a pure democracy. By that logic, electing Representatives and Senators would be pure democracy which is inane sibce they are automatically our representatives in Washington and thus not a pure democracy.

 

[durangodawood]

...So just start over (if you're willing). What point are you trying to make?

No adult citizen's consent to be governed should count less than any others. EC Violates that.

 

[USincognito]

I seem to remember a certain reality TV host railing against the electoral college in 2012 when it was called for President Obama before the popular vote was finished being tallied.

You mean the guy who lost the popular ballot by nealy 10,000,000 votes?

 

[Resha Caner]

No adult citizen's consent to be governed should count less than any others.

Why?

 

[USincognito]

Electoral wins by Republicans are based on the gerrymandering of congressional districts in 2010. If the Dems still control the House in 2020, they will gerrymander things their way.

Gerrymandering is done at the state level. The Democrats would need to win state houses to redraw the districts.

 

[USincognito]

Edit - Jeff, not Michael.

Worth a read: Tyranny Of A Majority - A James Madison View

I'll be honest. I'd rather read President Madison's own writings than anything by CTist Jeff Rense.

By not doing mail-in ballots.

That ain't gonna happen.

 

[durangodawood]

Why?

Its a basic value axiom, similar to the notion expressed in the Declaration of Independence, that "all men are created equal".

You may share it. Or you may think some peoples consent to be governed values more than others.

 

[USincognito]

Has anyone read about the compact being put together by liberal representatives in the state governments?

Colorado has become the latest state — and the first swing state — to join a group pledging to elect presidents based on who wins the national popular vote.

Eleven other states and the District of Columbia have signed onto the National Popular Vote Interstate Compact, an agreement that requires those states to select their presidential electors based on who wins the most individual votes nationwide, regardless of which candidate wins in the state.
Colorado joins effort to elect presidents by popular vote, go around Electoral College

I'd like to see an analysis of electors voting based on how each district votes. Something like that might be a balance between getting rid of the EC and making the results more closely match the popular vote.

 

[Resha Caner]

Its a basic value axiom, similar to the notion expressed in the Declaration of Independence, that "all men are created equal".

You may share it. Or you may think some peoples consent to be governed values more than others.

I don't think they are similar notions, but OK. So for you it's a basic axiom.

Now let's test that axiom. The majority in the nation votes for A. The majority in a district votes for B. Why does the consent to rule of the nation trump the consent to rule for the district?